Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

No they aren't.

Blizzard hates using the RPG books, because frankly, the lore in it is terrible.

Yeah, prove me wrong by bringing up Tandred, as if a random background character that does nothing means they are going to rewrite all the Goblin lore for a patch in an expansion that isnt about goblins.

What lore would they be rewriting exactly? The RPG simply contains a description of what Undermine looks like and what’s found there. They would no doubt use that (along with the early dev material from vanilla) as a starting point and work from there.

[Shadowferal]

As I figured, which makes me believe that they're going to rely heavily on the RPG books for lore.

I've been using the rpg myself. They've been consistent for the most part, at least in regards to the races I'm focused on.

[Makorus]

What lore would they be rewriting exactly? The RPG simply contains a description of what Undermine looks like and what’s found there. They would no doubt use that (along with the early dev material from vanilla) as a starting point and work from there.

Like Goblins not being an underground race?

I honestly don't know what else you are trying to convey when you say "As I figured, which makes me believe that they're going to rely heavily on the RPG books for lore." to a post quoting the Chronicles description of Goblins.

[Teriz]

Like Goblins not being an underground race?

I honestly don't know what else you are trying to convey when you say "As I figured, which makes me believe that they're going to rely heavily on the RPG books for lore." to a post quoting the Chronicles description of Goblins.

Because Chronicle makes no mention or description of Undermine, despite Undermine being proposed as a city/continent in vanilla, mentioned multiple times throuhought the history of WoW, and is being currently name dropped in Khaz Algar.

In addition, Blizzard pulled Mogul Razdunk from the RPG to become a boss in BFA. Razdunk had direct lore related to Undermine in both the RPG and BFA. If they were willing to do that, then I have little doubt they're going to pull more lore from the RPGs along with other lore tidbits like the massive underwater tunnels, Sluicetowns and the void beneath the city.

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I've been using the rpg myself. They've been consistent for the most part, at least in regards to the races I'm focused on.

Yeah, it's weird how some posters on here pretend like Blizzard never uses the RPG as a resource. Blizzard themselves even stated that they would refer to it for story ideas and concepts for WoW.

[Shadowferal]

Yeah, it's weird how some posters on here pretend like Blizzard never uses the RPG as a resource. Blizzard themselves even stated that they would refer to it for story ideas and concepts for WoW.

I've derided the Chronicles before Blizz let the cat out of the bag and said it was a matter of perspective. But when cross-referencing the races with events it was immediately apparent that they didn't do much regarding double checking how it was all to come together.
...lot of untapped lore and stories in the rpg.

[Ersula]

I've been using the rpg myself. They've been consistent for the most part, at least in regards to the races I'm focused on.

They don't. The ttrpg was written by people completely unaffiliated with Blizzard, who were basing it on Blizzard's unpublished lore documents. If you see something from the ttrpg in the game its because it was always canon to the devs, not that they lifted it from that game.

[Makorus]

Because Chronicle makes no mention or description of Undermine, despite Undermine being proposed as a city/continent in vanilla, mentioned multiple times throuhought the history of WoW, and is being currently name dropped in Khaz Algar.

In addition, Blizzard pulled Mogul Razdunk from the RPG to become a boss in BFA. Razdunk had direct lore related to Undermine in both the RPG and BFA. If they were willing to do that, then I have little doubt they're going to pull more lore from the RPGs along with other lore tidbits like the massive underwater tunnels, Sluicetowns and the void beneath the city.

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Yeah, it's weird how some posters on here pretend like Blizzard never uses the RPG as a resource. Blizzard themselves even stated that they would refer to it for story ideas and concepts for WoW.

Undermine isn't mentioned because... it's not relevant to WoW?

Yeah, they might add it, but it not being in Chronicle being the reason they are going to use the awful RPG lore is such a stretch.

Also, when they take stuff from the RPG, it's usually minute details that hardly matter.

For example: Razdunk, aside from 1.) his name and 2.) being the leader of the Venture Co., has nothing in common with the actual BfA version.

When forced into combat, Razdunk begins by using his arcitech connection ability to imbue frost nova into his long rifle (opening a small hatch in the armor’s side to touch the weapon), then blasts away with it. After this tactic, he takes great joy in all of his armor’s weapons, flailing away with rifle, dragon mouth, steam fist and slicers. If Razdunk is having problems hitting his opponents, he calms down enough to make single attacks with his steam fist. If the battle looks grim, he attempts to escape with the help of invisibility.

Razdunk's familiar is a toad named Bernard.

Sorry, where is that in the game? And that is like 70% of this description in the RPG. The other 30% is just fluff describing his mech, which once again isn't anything like that in the actual game.

[Teriz]

Undermine isn't mentioned because... it's not relevant to WoW?

Uh how is it not relevant to WoW? It's mentioned multiple times in WoW, and we have characters from there. It's obvious that it exists in the game world.

Yeah, they might add it, but it not being in Chronicle being the reason they are going to use the awful RPG lore is such a stretch.

Also, when they take stuff from the RPG, it's usually minute details that hardly matter.

For example: Razdunk, aside from 1.) his name and 2.) being the leader of the Venture Co., has nothing in common with the actual BfA version.

Sorry, where is that in the game? And that is like 70% of this description in the RPG. The other 30% is just fluff describing his mech, which once again isn't anything like that in the actual game.

His name, his background/motivations, and his use of a unique mech were all carried over to WoW.

Typically we call stuff like that lore.

[Makorus]

Uh how is it not relevant to WoW? It's mentioned multiple times in WoW, and we have characters from there. It's obvious that it exists in the game world.



His name, his background/motivations, and his use of a unique mech were all carried over to WoW.

Typically we call stuff like that lore.

It's not relevant the same way the Dragon Isles weren't mentioned outside of one quest in BfA: Nothing has happened there, they aren't important to any of the playable races (Yes, despite Goblins being playable, Undermine isn't really relevant to them because they are not from Undermine) and we aren't gonna go there any time soon.

I hate to break it to you, but the Undermines, in the grand scheme of things, aren't an important location. Will they show up? Maybe, I am not saying they shouldn't show up, but you'd be deluded to think they will design them based on a non-canon RPG book from like 20 years ago.

His name and his background (if you can call "Leader of an evil faction" that), I guess. Motivation? They don't mention anything about his motivation in his RPG. It's literally just a description of his appearance and mostly his mech. I call bullshit on the "use of an unique mech" because his mech is as different as can be from the one in the game.

What happened is that Blizzard wanted to put the leader of the Venture Co. in the game so they can pivot Gallywix into a leadership position, and they'd thought it be cute to name him after the guy from the RPG.

[Teriz]

It's not relevant the same way the Dragon Isles weren't mentioned outside of one quest in BfA: Nothing has happened there, they aren't important to any of the playable races (Yes, despite Goblins being playable, Undermine isn't really relevant to them because they are not from Undermine) and we aren't gonna go there any time soon.

What are you even arguing about here? Yeah, the Dragon Isles weren't mentioned in game until BFA, but Undermine has been mentioned in-game since Vanilla, and it's being mentioned consistently in the next expansion. How is that not relevant? Your comparison here is utter nonsense.

I hate to break it to you, but the Undermines, in the grand scheme of things, aren't an important location. Will they show up? Maybe, I am not saying they shouldn't show up, but you'd be deluded to think they will design them based on a non-canon RPG book from like 20 years ago.

Again, what is your argument here? Are you arguing that Blizzard wouldn't use a resource to help them design a location when they have used that resource in the past?

His name and his background (if you can call "Leader of an evil faction" that), I guess. Motivation? They don't mention anything about his motivation in his RPG. It's literally just a description of his appearance and mostly his mech. I call bullshit on the "use of a unique mech" because his mech is as different as can be from the one in the game.

What happened is that Blizzard wanted to put the leader of the Venture Co. in the game so they can pivot Gallywix into a leadership position, and they'd thought it be cute to name him after the guy from the RPG.

In the RPG books he sought to be a trade prince, and the same motivation is in place in BFA. In the RPG books he is mentioned as the leader of the Venture Co. Lo and behold, he's the head of the Venture Co. in BFA as well. The RPG mentions that he pilots a unique mech, and surprise, surprise, he's piloting a unique mech in BFA.

In all seriousness, it's like you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. The simple fact of the matter is that Blizzard has pulled from the RPG before, and if they implement Undermine it is highly likely they'll pull from the RPG to develop that location.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

What happened is that Blizzard wanted to put the leader of the Venture Co. in the game so they can pivot Gallywix into a leadership position, and they'd thought it be cute to name him after the guy from the RPG.

I refer to this phenomenon as "Teriz derangement syndrome", where people will argue ad nauseam with Teriz on points where he is genuinely, fairly obviously right simply because they've become so used to his hopeless Tinker-clamoring and hot takes. The virtuosity of Teriz's insistence, and the gratuity of his hyperfixation, on one class has created an automatic response of revulsion to even the most transparently correct observations when they come from him. Solely because Teriz said it, people didn't buy the obvious signals that we'd get a third Evoker spec, and solely because Teriz says it, people will bend over themselves to dismiss anything about RPG lore being transplanted into the game.

[Makabreska]

Aaaaand to add some more fuel to the flame, Season of Discovery P4 data-mining teases goblin/South Seas content.

[Makorus]

I refer to this phenomenon as "Teriz derangement syndrome", where people will argue ad nauseam with Teriz on points where he is genuinely, fairly obviously right simply because they've become so used to his hopeless Tinker-clamoring and hot takes. The virtuosity of Teriz's insistence, and the gratuity of his hyperfixation, on one class has created an automatic response of revulsion to even the most transparently correct observations when they come from him. Solely because Teriz said it, people didn't buy the obvious signals that we'd get a third Evoker spec, and solely because Teriz says it, people will bend over themselves to dismiss anything about RPG lore being transplanted into the game.

Once we have something implemented into the game that is more substantial than throwaway NPCs like Razdunk or Tandred, call me.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Tandred

> tandred
> throwaway npc

kek

That said, there's also the entire city of Boralus. That came from the RPG. Oh, and Azshara's tentacled design. That's RPG lore, also.

[huth]

I refer to this phenomenon as "Teriz derangement syndrome", where people will argue ad nauseam with Teriz on points where he is genuinely, fairly obviously right simply because they've become so used to his hopeless Tinker-clamoring and hot takes. The virtuosity of Teriz's insistence, and the gratuity of his hyperfixation, on one class has created an automatic response of revulsion to even the most transparently correct observations when they come from him. Solely because Teriz said it, people didn't buy the obvious signals that we'd get a third Evoker spec, and solely because Teriz says it, people will bend over themselves to dismiss anything about RPG lore being transplanted into the game.

Being right for the wrong reasons isn't really what you make it out to be here. His argumentation was still bollocks, he just happened to hit the correct outcome by accident.

[Teriz]

Aaaaand to add some more fuel to the flame, Season of Discovery P4 data-mining teases goblin/South Seas content.

That's an interesting development.

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Being right for the wrong reasons.....

My reasons are wanting to see more Goblin-centric content in WoW, and pointing out signs that that content may be incoming.

How is that wrong?

[Ielenia]

Because Chronicle makes no mention or description of Undermine, despite Undermine being proposed as a city/continent in vanilla, mentioned multiple times throuhought the history of WoW, and is being currently name dropped in Khaz Algar.

Things change with time. Pandaria was supposed to be just another zone in south Kalimdor, but instead Blizzard made it its own continent instead. The point is that it doesn't really matter how it was originally envisioned, things can still go bigger or smaller when they decide to implement it. IF --and that's a big 'if'-- added mid-TWW, undermine is certainly not going to be 'continent-sized', for example. At best, it'll be at best a single zone, but more likely just part of a zone.

[Teriz]

Things change with time. Pandaria was supposed to be just another zone in south Kalimdor, but instead Blizzard made it its own continent instead. The point is that it doesn't really matter how it was originally envisioned, things can still go bigger or smaller when they decide to implement it. IF --and that's a big 'if'-- added mid-TWW, undermine is certainly not going to be 'continent-sized', for example. At best, it'll be at best a single zone, but more likely just part of a zone.

A zone the size of Zalarak or Emerald Dream/Amir'drassil will be more than enough for a Goblin city with a raid instance in its center.

[Makorus]

Being right for the wrong reasons isn't really what you make it out to be here. His argumentation was still bollocks, he just happened to hit the correct outcome by accident.

I mean, as obnoxious as his "Right in hindsight" schtick is, I will 100% defend him on the Augmentation thing. The way people insisted it wasn't gonna happen when there was piles and piles and piles of evidence was a bit ridiculous.

[Ielenia]

A zone the size of Zalarak or Emerald Dream/Amir'drassil will be more than enough for a Goblin city with a raid instance in its center.

And if you look at the examples you listed you'd see it backs my argument: undermine is unlikely to be the entire zone, since even Zaralek Caverns are not uniform in its layout.

It needs open areas for enemies to be in, so undermine is likely to be just the size of Gadgetzan, like how Loamm is in Zaralek Cavern. At best, it'll be roughly as big as Suramar city is in the Suramar zone. It's not going to be just one entire zone with nothing but a giant city where we fight nothing but goblins.

And even then we're likely to be stationed OUTSIDE undermine while sieging it, not in it. Again, like Suramar.