Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makabreska]

It's the same thing as the Legion's presence in WOD before Legion. But Midnight has Scourge to balance things out.

Hardly. Legion at the start of WoD was not nearly as ever-present as Void is right now in TWW. Iron Horde was the main antagonist, we had Ogres, Arakkoa, Botani and Breakers.

In TWW part of every faction has sold itself to Void and uses it's powers - Earthen, Nerubian and Arathi. The only exceptions I saw were Kobolds (who seem to be the Gnolls of this expansion) and w/e that Arathi sect is doing in Priory. And Midnight was supposed to be THE Void expansion, so I dunno how will they proceed with things.

[Chickat]

Healers have a haste buff that also causes 2%MaxHP/s. Which is very annoying if you have maxed gear and they aren't anywhere close, because you will take far more damage than they can heal.

Sounds like terrible design lol.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

In TWW part of every faction has sold itself to Void and uses it's powers - Earthen, Nerubian and Arathi. The only exceptions I saw were Kobolds (who seem to be the Gnolls of this expansion) and w/e that Arathi sect is doing in Priory. And Midnight was supposed to be THE Void expansion, so I dunno how will the proceed with things.

While I'd imagine fatigue wouldn't be as severe when the aesthetic is "pretty blue space-splotches" instead of "black dirt and glowing vomit", I get where you're coming from. They'd have to vary it up a bit to sell us on the same aesthetic for two consecutive expansions, even if said expansions are shorter than usual.

[Khaza-R]

Is there space for a patch solely dedicated to Goblins though? There's too many open plotpoints in TWW that I don't think they are going to dedicate a whole patch to goblins.

Don't get me wrong, I would love some actual serious Goblin content, I just don't think it's gonna happen. I think it's gonna be a "Nature vs. Machinery" Rootlands patch.

Tbf, a lot of people are making assumptions about Undermine when we know very little about it and its essentially a blank canvas.

It could be less of a goblin slum hole and more of a metropolitan, steampunk city filled with dozens of different races like Mean Streets of Gadgetzhan. And given how much the WoW devs like to borrow from HS, I think its a very possible revisionism of the zone.

[Teriz]

To be fair though, a lot of Teriz's speculation on a hypothetical Undermine patch revolves around squabbling cartels. If they impliment Undermine as a large city zone, we may see many subfaction areas that are more open to us, and others that aren't.

Nighthold is a good example. We're fighting Legion aligned Suramarians to liberate Suramar in totality. Something very similar would be the case in this situation I think is Teriz's belief.

That would be correct. Another example would be the instance that took place in Borealus in BFA, and the random parts of the city where you could attacked by random mobs of criminals.

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The Undermine was destroyed when Mount Kajaro erupted during Cataclysm. Crapopolis (Motherlode) was the one town on the southern shore that escaped destruction. A part could have survived, but it is currently unknown. I think a raid where the Venture Co. is trying to harvest the world tree roots and we fight them off makes more sense than finding some magma-flooded, post-apocalyptic Fallout goblins eating each other in the ruins underground.

We have multiple points of reference indicating that Undermine wasn’t destroyed in Cataclysm. Even the Blizzard devs indicated that it wasn’t destroyed.

[Ielenia]

Because throwing players into a city-wide raid with no context or connection to the city they’re raiding in makes zero narrative sense.

That has nothing to do with what I said. I simply pointed out that it's highly unlikely that undermine is going to be this huge, sprawling city you claim it will be in the game.

It won't be bigger than Suramar. That's for sure.

It would get its own zone because it’s the focus of the patch.

It's not going to be it's own zone. At the absolute best and most generous it would be like Suramar, where the city itself is just 1/3 of the zone.

[huth]

I mean, as obnoxious as his "Right in hindsight" schtick is, I will 100% defend him on the Augmentation thing. The way people insisted it wasn't gonna happen when there was piles and piles and piles of evidence was a bit ridiculous.

Which ended up being from an old, abandoned concept for it. That's exactly what i mean. He (partially) got the right outcome, but his reasoning was completely off.

[Teriz]

That has nothing to do with what I said. I simply pointed out that it's highly unlikely that undermine is going to be this huge, sprawling city you claim it will be in the game.

It won't be bigger than Suramar. That's for sure.

Why wouldn’t it? If Blizzard is dedicating an entire patch to it, wouldn’t it occupy the entire zone?

It's not going to be its own zone. At the absolute best and most generous it would be like Suramar, where the city itself is just 1/3 of the zone.

Based on what exactly?

[Sondrelk]

Why wouldn’t it? If Blizzard is dedicating an entire patch to it, wouldn’t it occupy the entire zone?



Based on what exactly?

Based on never having had a purely Metropolitan zone ever.
If such a zone was considered by the developers then they probably would have made one by now seeing as they have had more than good enough reasons to make them.
Even the most urban of zones in WoW, like Revendreth or Thaldraszus still has plenty of areas whee there is only nature.

Absolute best case scenario for Undermine in that regard is something like Revendreth I would reckon. Where a giant chunk is city, and a bigger chunk are the mines and abandoned cesspits outside.
Personally, this is why I think Undermine proper will be a raid. It lets the developers go all-in on the theming without having to dedicate an entire zone to it. Maybe something similar to Nazjatar and the Eternal Palace where you go by train from a zone closer to Dorn and all the way to Undermine for the raid entrance.

[Teriz]

I personally think there are routes they can take. I've been propping up the idea that there will be some alignment with Gallywix or our antagonistic goblins and Ethereals on a tech scale. The exact plot for them, I'm really up in the air with. Maybe something to do with Azerite or the void creature under Kezan.

I don't think it will be a solely goblin patch, but I think it'll be a majority goblin patch.

I know Orwenya and the Harronir are set to take larger roles in this story than we perceive, but I'm reluctant to place them in the 11.1 slot because I think their role will supersede that. I think that the general idea of what a Rootlands patch could be in the 11.1 slot sort of loses focus of how big a deal the Elun'ahir situation is. To me, it seems to be a portion of seeds planeted (harhar) to later be used in TLT as part of the Titan conspiracy, something I think the Light and Elune are directly involved in.

I guess we could see the Rootlands in some form, maybe more portions of it in other zones, i.e whatever 11.2 ends up being (center of azeroth maybeeee?), but I'm just not convinced that this check is being cashed this early. I really think there's a lot more to it than we think.

I very may well be entirely wrong. I'd just be a little surprised if the payoff for Elun'ahir is just another situation of protecting a world tree from those who wish to destroy it for nefarious means. I truly think there is a lot more to Elune than we are lead to believe, and that is slowly being gestated in the story.

I personally see Rootlands being before 11.1, with Xal looking to corrupt its roots as a way to weaken or prime the world soul, and us working with the Harronir to try to stop her. They then end up joining us as a neutral AR.

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Based on never having had a purely Metropolitan zone ever.

There’s a first time for everything.

If such a zone was considered by the developers then they probably would have made one by now seeing as they have had more than good enough reasons to make them.

That was actually their idea for Undermine in vanilla. It was abandoned due to lack of Goblin assets and time. So if their goal is to put Undermine in the game, I’m pretty sure they’d follow their original design intent.

[Sondrelk]

I personally see Rootlands being before 11.1, with Xal looking to corrupt its roots as a way to weaken or prime the world soul, and us working with the Harronir to try to stop her. They then end up joining us as a neutral AR.

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There’s a first time for everything.



That was actually their idea for Undermine in vanilla. It was abandoned due to lack of Goblin assets and time. So if their goal is to put Undermine in the game, I’m pretty sure they’d follow their original design intent.

Zones in Vanilla were also much simpler and with less variety. Zones now would easily be two or three Vanilla zones, even discounting their small size.
Take Ohn'ahran plains. On the surface a single plains biome, but look closer and you see that it has three distinct biomes within it to give it variety. The plains obviously, but also mountains and the Green Dragon area.
A modern Undermine zone would have to be somewhat similar in terms of having distinct areas. Even more so if it's a patch zone and needs to have distinct areas to increase variety. Therefore a clear divide between the densely populated urban environment, and the outskirts with the more open areas.

[Teriz]

Zones in Vanilla were also much simpler and with less variety. Zones now would easily be two or three Vanilla zones, even discounting their small size.
Take Ohn'ahran plains. On the surface a single plains biome, but look closer and you see that it has three distinct biomes within it to give it variety. The plains obviously, but also mountains and the Green Dragon area.
A modern Undermine zone would have to be somewhat similar in terms of having distinct areas. Even more so if it's a patch zone and needs to have distinct areas to increase variety. Therefore a clear divide between the densely populated urban environment, and the outskirts with the more open areas.

You mean like the Hearthstone iteration of Gadgetzan which showcased a Goblin city loaded with variety and different districts?

So again, outside of “Blizzard has never done this before”, why couldn’t any of this be done for patch 11.1?

[Baraden]

You mean like the Hearthstone iteration of Gadgetzan which showcased a Goblin city loaded with variety and different districts?

So again, outside of “Blizzard has never done this before”, why couldn’t any of this be done for patch 11.1?

I'd love a 100% urban zone and undermine would be a good place to do it, but I wouldn't bet on it because I imagine Blizzard is wary of detatching the game too much from the WoW identity most people think of (mud huts and white stone)

[Ielenia]

If Blizzard is dedicating an entire patch to it,

And that's a huge "if" that is going of complete speculation without any concrete evidence. And no, "these goblins come from undermine" and having undermine mentioned here and there are not definitive evidence that Blizzard is working on an undermine-centric patch.

wouldn’t it occupy the entire zone?

Because I doubt that undermine is big enough, lore-wise, for that. Because even giant, sprawling cities such as Suramar, Dazar'alor and Boralus do not occupy the entirety of a zone.

Based on what exactly?

Based on the fact that Undermine is not going to be bigger than the capital city of the elves. Based on the fact that I have never seen any sort of evidence that undermine is "huge" in any way other than fan interpretations of what little we know of the place.

[Monkal]

I unironically think it'd be cool if Gallywix became a problem early in TWW and then returned in TLT alongside a Undermine Zone, but only time will tell.

I saw something a couple pages ago about Xal'athat and the Amani but couldn't find anything about it. What happened?

[Ersula]

I saw something a couple pages ago about Xal'athat and the Amani but couldn't find anything about it. What happened?

The War of the Aqir. Technically not Amani yet but the instigating event was located in what is now Zul'aman.

[Kiivar86]

I saw something a couple pages ago about Xal'athat and the Amani but couldn't find anything about it. What happened?

On top of what Ersula said, in the Harbinger questline, one of the Riftwalkers talks of sensing void activity in the northern portion of the Eastern Kingdoms but that the trail went cold near Zul'Aman. So something was going on there.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

What are y’all’s predictions for raid #2, raid #3, and the megadungeon?

With Blizzard wanting to push out expansions faster than once every 2 years, we will be lucky if we even get a third raid.

[Golden Yak]

Absolute best case scenario for Undermine in that regard is something like Revendreth I would reckon. Where a giant chunk is city, and a bigger chunk are the mines and abandoned cesspits outside.
Personally, this is why I think Undermine proper will be a raid. It lets the developers go all-in on the theming without having to dedicate an entire zone to it. Maybe something similar to Nazjatar and the Eternal Palace where you go by train from a zone closer to Dorn and all the way to Undermine for the raid entrance.

Agreed. Quickly refreshing myself on Kezan/Undermine lore, the capital city is described as being subterranean. Going by the snippets we see of the surface in the goblin starting zone and Motherlode, there are large areas of construction and industry, but the rest of the island is still covered in jungle.

An entirely redone/revamped Kezan would likely consist of those elements - significant portion of goblin ruins leftover from the Cataclysm, some areas being rebuilt by returning goblins, large areas of wilderness, jungle (likely reclaiming some goblin ruins) and of course the volcano. Instances would take place below the surface in Undermine proper, with goblin construction as expansive as Blizz feels like doing.

I'm hoping for something that feels like Blackrock Depths, if not actually quite as twisty to navigate.

[Raetary]

Based on the fact that Undermine is not going to be bigger than the capital city of the elves. Based on the fact that I have never seen any sort of evidence that undermine is "huge" in any way other than fan interpretations of what little we know of the place.

To add to this, Undermine would be a patch zone, which means its not gonna get the same full fledged investment as an expansion zone would get.

It's inevitably going to be smaller, as patch zones tend to be.