Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Except, I don't see any Alliance character in this theory-crafting scenario. There has never been a case where one of the two factions was completely absent from a patch. Never.

The Horde has ALWAYS had a presence in the story, in EVERY single patch. Is the Alliance not owed the same?

I'm sure Alleria & Jaina will be seen standing around during a goblin centric tier, which is what the horde characters are resigned to during TWW season 1.

[Timester]

Except, I don't see any Alliance character in this theory-crafting scenario. There has never been a case where one of the two factions was completely absent from a patch. Never.

The Horde has ALWAYS had a presence in the story, in EVERY single patch. Is the Alliance not owed the same?

The entire 11.0 is the "Adventures of the Bronzebeards!". 4 Bronzebeards as main characters, I wouldn't be so worried.

[Varodoc]

The entire 11.0 is the "Adventures of the Bronzebeards!". 4 Bronzebeards as main characters, I wouldn't be so worried.

Warchief Thrall has appeared in every marketing trailer thus far and will be one of the main characters of the Endgame campaign of the expansion.

[Timester]

Warchief Thrall has appeared in every marketing trailer thus far and will be one of the main characters of the Endgame campaign of the expansion.

Why marketing used Thrall, only Blizzard knows. But in beta itself, Thrall is a side NPC, his part of Stormriders of Dornogal questline (which is also a side part of the Earthen race, not connected with the development of the main story) is one of tutoring. Then Thrall doesn't appear yet again. Now the Bronzebeards? Moira, Dagran and Brann are there all the way from Dalaran to endgame (Magni's plot is actually solved in the second zone, that's why I'm not counting him).

[Teriz]

I'm sure Alleria & Jaina will be seen standing around during a goblin centric tier, which is what the horde characters are resigned to during TWW season 1.

Pretty much.

[Makabreska]

M+ changes are here:

https://www.wowhead.com/news/brand-n...removed-343512

This looks really good!

[Ielenia]

Well again, Undermine (if implemented) would be the most well-known lore location in this expansion.

Which, from an objective standpoint, is another point against the idea. Because I doubt Blizzard is going to make the "most well-known lore location" in TWW be just a mid-expansion patch zone that is going to be left behind the moment the season ends.

If they do something that big, it's most likely going to be for the expansion's main hub, which remains relevant through the entire expansion instead of just a single season.

[Teriz]

Which, from an objective standpoint, is another point against the idea. Because I doubt Blizzard is going to make the "most well-known lore location" in TWW be just a mid-expansion patch zone that is going to be left behind the moment the season ends.

If there's no way to make a Goblin/Undermine-centric expansion, making it the central theme of a major patch is the next step down.

[Enrif]

Anticlimactic means disappointment at the conclusion of an arc/climax.

If TWW ends, and Azeroth is nowhere to be seen, despite being teased from cinematic trailer to epilogue patch, then its definitely disappointing.

If TWW ends and it has no impactful overture to Midnight, THAT would be anticlimactic. Getting to the World Soul does not matter. It only matters to protect it from Xal. And in TLT, when we actually face the titans, it would be a climatic ending to have Azeroth stand up against them. That is climatic.

[micwini]

You didn't answer the second part of My post.

Why shouldn't Mekkatorque be involved in Undermine? Are Goblin the only ones allowed to participate in a Technology-based storyline?

I didn't reply because it doesn't matter. If mekkatorque is there, he's going to be neutral as well.

[Ielenia]

If there's no way to make a Goblin/Undermine-centric expansion, making it the central theme of a major patch is the next step down.

Which would then mean, from an objective standpoint, that a X.1 undermine is not going to be a zone-wide city, as I've been telling you.

[Teriz]

Which would then mean, from an objective standpoint, that a X.1 undermine is not going to be a zone-wide city, as I've been telling you.

LoL! That standpoint is the exact opposite of “objective”.

Anyway, you’re welcome to that opinion. We’ll see what happens in about a year’s time.

[Zardas]

11.1 can't come soon enough

[micwini]

I can see Undermine as a Suramar at best. Mostly city, but not all of it

[Nightshade711]

LoL! That standpoint is the exact opposite of “objective”.

Anyway, you’re welcome to that opinion. We’ll see what happens in about a year’s time.

Pretty objective when we’ve got datamining to support it.
We already have a good idea of what 11.1 will be via the datamining, and sorry to say it isn’t Undermine.

[Eldryth]

Why wouldn't they simply drop Rootlands in patch 11.0.7 as a max zone like they did Forbidden Reach in 10.0.7?

11.0.7 Rootlands
11.1 Undermine + zone
11.2 World soul center of the earth zone + void/ethereal raid.

Guys, the signs are all there.

Again, that's possible, but the fact of the matter is that the Rootlands have by far the most buildup, are far more closely tied to the overarching plot, and have too much important lore for a minor patch to handle it well. It only makes sense for that if you pretend that the only thing there is the Harronir, when it should also give a lot of lore on Eonar, Freya, and the Freysworn- making it a great chance to set up the Titans a bit before TLT. Covering all that would take a lot more story than they've typically used in any minor patch- admittedly possible if they change things up and put a lot more resources into the smaller patches, but I still think it needs more.

As for Undermine, I feel like it'd be best to use it as a Horde capitol if we ever get a real South Seas expansion. I'm not a Goblin fan but even I think it'd be a waste to use it here, as a completely irrelevant tangent.

[micwini]

Again, that's possible, but the fact of the matter is that the Rootlands have by far the most buildup, are far more closely tied to the overarching plot, and have too much important lore for a minor patch to handle it well. It only makes sense for that if you pretend that the only thing there is the Harronir, when it should also give a lot of lore on Eonar, Freya, and the Freysworn- making it a great chance to set up the Titans a bit before TLT. Covering all that would take a lot more story than they've typically used in any minor patch- admittedly possible if they change things up and put a lot more resources into the smaller patches, but I still think it needs more.

As for Undermine, I feel like it'd be best to use it as a Horde capitol if we ever get a real South Seas expansion. I'm not a Goblin fan but even I think it'd be a waste to use it here, as a completely irrelevant tangent.

Kind of agree, would love to have a real South Sea expansion, but even then I don't think they are ever going to do another Horde/Alliance separate capitol

[Teriz]

Pretty objective when we’ve got datamining to support it.
We already have a good idea of what 11.1 will be via the datamining, and sorry to say it isn’t Undermine.

What datamining?

- - - Updated - - -

Again, that's possible, but the fact of the matter is that the Rootlands have by far the most buildup, are far more closely tied to the overarching plot, and have too much important lore for a minor patch to handle it well. It only makes sense for that if you pretend that the only thing there is the Harronir, when it should also give a lot of lore on Eonar, Freya, and the Freysworn- making it a great chance to set up the Titans a bit before TLT. Covering all that would take a lot more story than they've typically used in any minor patch- admittedly possible if they change things up and put a lot more resources into the smaller patches, but I still think it needs more.

As for Undermine, I feel like it'd be best to use it as a Horde capitol if we ever get a real South Seas expansion. I'm not a Goblin fan but even I think it'd be a waste to use it here, as a completely irrelevant tangent.

Thing is, Zalarek also wasn’t directly tied to DF’s plot. It completely revolved around the Dracthyr and to a lesser extent the Black Dragonflight.

[Chickat]

Affix changes are great imo.

At a +12 its basically no affix to worry about but really really hard base dungeons. Dungeon mastery rather than affix mastery.

Lower keys like +5 or below will be a lot less stressful. It will be fun to collect the kiss/curse orbs.

[Eldryth]

Thing is, Zalarek also wasn’t directly tied to DF’s plot. It completely revolved around the Dracthyr and to a lesser extent the Black Dragonflight.

I've heard that a lot, but that argument never really made sense to me. We didn't fight the Incarnates there, but seeing how the various Dragonflights developed was arguably an even more important plotline, so the succession resolution was very much a part of the main plot. And the Dracthyr's development was also important at the start, even if it fell flat since they were ignored in 10.2, but that has more to do with the story kind of falling apart at the end. Plus that's where Fyrakk absorbed the Shadowflame and got set up as an antagonist.

Undermine, on the other hand, would be completely irrelevant here. And honestly, even if there had been real precedent for that level of filler in recent expansions (the only patches I can think of that compare are all the way back in Cata and Wrath- or Mechagon, but that came with the far more relevant Nazjatar, so I wouldn't count it), I'd be hoping that the Saga's focus on having a more focused story would change that.