Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Off-topic from current conversation:

Should TWW (or maybe Midnight) be the best time to update/change Shaman's "Ascendance" forms to proper... elemental forms?

Or do you prefer the current Elemental Ascendant form? Do you think it fits the flavor of Shamans?

Personally, I'd rather see Shaman transform into traditional Fire/Water/Air Elementals myself. Perhaps Blizzard does not want to use the same model as they do for Summon Earth/Fire Elemental? What other model could they use for Shaman's "Ascendance" if they were to change that form to a different elemental?

[Sondrelk]

Off-topic from current conversation:

Should TWW (or maybe Midnight) be the best time to update/change Shaman's "Ascendance" forms to proper... elemental forms?

Or do you prefer the current Elemental Ascendant form? Do you think it fits the flavor of Shamans?

Personally, I'd rather see Shaman transform into traditional Fire/Water/Air Elementals myself. Perhaps Blizzard does not want to use the same model as they do for Summon Earth/Fire Elemental? What other model could they use for Shaman's "Ascendance" if they were to change that form to a different elemental?

Personally don't play Shaman, but if I did I would probably consider them making dedicated ascendant forms similar to the Dathea, Ascended appearance. Seems like it would be easy enough to make three more variant of for each element (or just two when considering no spec uses earth ascendant).
High quality appearance, and it can show the player model in the middle if completely removing your character transmog is an issue.

[Tiradon]

I bet they'll just recolor the TWW login screen to purple and call it a day.

You know maybe the login screen evolves with each content patch...

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Personally don't play Shaman, but if I did I would probably consider them making dedicated ascendant forms similar to the Dathea, Ascended appearance. Seems like it would be easy enough to make three more variant of for each element (or just two when considering no spec uses earth ascendant).
High quality appearance, and it can show the player model in the middle if completely removing your character transmog is an issue.

That... actually... is the best idea for this I've seen. I didn't even consider that.





Looking at it again I would definitely choose this style, rather than a traditional ___ Elemental model.

[Joshuaj]

Someone got Chronicle 4 early, a couple of things:

1. Seemingly no new Cosmology Chart.

2. Recaps everything with very little added onto it, so think of it akin to Chronicle 3.

3. Zereth Mortis and the Shadowlands Cosmology stuff are mentioned, but it's perspective regarding how everything was created is seen as myth in the chronicle (So basically, it's just expanding on what was expressed VIA Odyn's Edicts. So yeah, nothing is retconned, but as I expected, the Progenitor-focused stuff seems to have been intentionally laid back a bit, which is fine, as in-universe, almost no one knows of Zereth Mortis, much less it's inner workings, which only Firim, and the Champions know about).

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Nothing new regarding Archimonde either, funny enough. So assume he's dead-dead.

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Funny enough, in Shadowlands, prior to the Jailer going to it, Zereth Mortis WAS seen as myth to the people of the Shadowlands. Firim was one of the few that actually took the time to study its whereabouts, and he was deemed a mad-man for it. So in-universe, the Progenitors being seen as "legend" in chronicle especially makes perfect sense, especially when it's made with the purpose of not letting mortals know anything about them.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Nothing new regarding Archimonde either, funny enough. So assume he's dead-dead.

Was there anything noteworthy mentioned about Archimonde recently? Why is his name popping up all of a sudden?

[Joshuaj]

Was there anything noteworthy mentioned about Archimonde recently? Why is his name popping up all of a sudden?

No. People just wanted clarification on his death for years now, since others assume he's not perma-dead.

[FossilFree]

Off-topic from current conversation:

Should TWW (or maybe Midnight) be the best time to update/change Shaman's "Ascendance" forms to proper... elemental forms?

Or do you prefer the current Elemental Ascendant form? Do you think it fits the flavor of Shamans?

Personally, I'd rather see Shaman transform into traditional Fire/Water/Air Elementals myself. Perhaps Blizzard does not want to use the same model as they do for Summon Earth/Fire Elemental? What other model could they use for Shaman's "Ascendance" if they were to change that form to a different elemental?

They should totally update it. It has to be one of the worst, if not the worst, visual effects tied to a major damage cooldown ability. Plus, the model we have now was a villain that corrupted the elements. Doesn't seem very heroic for shamans to turn into their antithesis.

The Glyph was way better. But I do like the "inside the elemental" approach too.

[Joshuaj]

@Varodoc Anything to say btw? Since you really wanted to see my reaction regarding Chronicle.

Wait, did not realize you were banned. Shoot.

[Nightshade711]

Personally don't play Shaman, but if I did I would probably consider them making dedicated ascendant forms similar to the Dathea, Ascended appearance. Seems like it would be easy enough to make three more variant of for each element (or just two when considering no spec uses earth ascendant).
High quality appearance, and it can show the player model in the middle if completely removing your character transmog is an issue.

Tbh Shamans need more visual updates anyways.
Ascendance using a Cata-era model, earth/lightning shield still using their vanilla visuals, etc.

[Foolicious]

Off-topic from current conversation:

Should TWW (or maybe Midnight) be the best time to update/change Shaman's "Ascendance" forms to proper... elemental forms?

Or do you prefer the current Elemental Ascendant form? Do you think it fits the flavor of Shamans?

Personally, I'd rather see Shaman transform into traditional Fire/Water/Air Elementals myself. Perhaps Blizzard does not want to use the same model as they do for Summon Earth/Fire Elemental? What other model could they use for Shaman's "Ascendance" if they were to change that form to a different elemental?

Not a huge fan of shamans turning into elementals. I think something like dathea's acendant form could work if they adjust the size and add better animations. It's still not turning fully into a elemental so im fine with that. Lorewise its so powerful it'll kill you after a while, but i think no shaman will be mad if we bend the lore a tiny bit for a visual update. I would prefer some fire/water/air effects for the character model though but i take everything over that cata ascendant model.

Tbh Shamans need more visual updates anyways.
Ascendance using a Cata-era model, earth/lightning shield still using their vanilla visuals, etc.

It's crazy how many new elementals and elemental spell effects we got in dragonflight and shaman got not one update. They pumped out a ton of great spells for augmentation and even bears got a new elemental form, but heaven forbid they update lightning bolt.

[Golden Yak]

That... actually... is the best idea for this I've seen. I didn't even consider that.



Looking at it again I would definitely choose this style, rather than a traditional ___ Elemental model.

'Wearing' an elemental like a suit of power armor is a neat idea. Use that for their tank spec.

[doledippers]

dh changes this week for sure /s

[Thomir]

dh changes this week for sure /s

New goal post?

[doledippers]

New goal post?

what?

/10char

[Joshuaj]

"Here are some passages

Realms of Death

"Though this tome previously set forth the creation of the physical universe, the Pantheon of Death believed differently. A myth had taken root in the Shadowlands, centered around a mysterious and enigmatic beings known as the First Ones""

From Chronicle Volume 4.

Yeah seems to simply take from what Odyn said in his edicts. Order documentations can't talk about the Progenitors (Namely due to the idea that mortals can't comprehend their existence), so anything regarding them should be automatically ignored and expressed as "myth/legend".

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It's not retconned, it's just Order creating a narrative to write-off their existence so they don't have to explain it.

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Though it seems Order and Death both have massive disagreements with one another.

Death seems to think Order believes in the Titans architecting the Cosmos, when in Chronicle it's stated that Light and Shadow created everything, not Order.

And Order seems to think that Death believes the First Ones created the physical universe and whatnot, when in reality it simply believes that the Progenitors created the cosmic forces which shaped the universe (This is prolly both a bias and an agenda Order is tryna push since they themselves know the First Ones are the actual makers). But still, we know for a fact that Light and Shadow created the physical universe and whatnot, as per the thousand years of a war audio drama.

The ACTUAL answer for all of this is that the Progenitors created the forces and the pattern, and those forces would create the mortal realm as a result.

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Yeah I fucking cooked.

[Makorus]

I am just glad they didn't retcon the First Ones.

What people don't realise is that the First Ones were necessary, and it's not a fault of Shadowlands writing, it's a fault of Legions writing and even before that by wimpifying the Titans.

If you non-chalantly turn two "gods" into bosses without making a big deal out of it, then yeah, you kinda fucked up. You can headcanon it as "Oh no, it was just an 'avatar'!" or whatever as much as you want, we did beat two Titans in Legion, which turns the concept of a Titan into "just another creature".

[Jaggler]

Yeah, the First Ones per se are not a problem.

During the early days of WoW the Titans were some untouchable, unreachable force. Far away in the distance, the stuff of Legends. In Legion we basically saved their asses, killed another titan and imprisoned Sargeras.
The First Ones taking the place of these weird, unknowable creators Is actually fine, as long as they don't repeat the same mistakes they did with the titans.

[loras]

I am just glad they didn't retcon the First Ones.

What people don't realise is that the First Ones were necessary, and it's not a fault of Shadowlands writing, it's a fault of Legions writing and even before that by wimpifying the Titans.

If you non-chalantly turn two "gods" into bosses without making a big deal out of it, then yeah, you kinda fucked up. You can headcanon it as "Oh no, it was just an 'avatar'!" or whatever as much as you want, we did beat two Titans in Legion, which turns the concept of a Titan into "just another creature".

A good story doesn't need gods.
Of all the things Legion did wrong that wasn't one of them; Aggramar was a tormented husk and Argus a barely formed misshapen titan thing, while Sargeras was restrained by the others.

It does however need better writing, both for the forces that be (non-sentient as they are) as well as for the near-gods that populate said writing.

The old gods were treated much worse, especially given the inconsistency they left regarding the question of "Why imprison them? What makes their relation to death and entripy even special at this point?".

Though admittedly the old gods are still salvageable.

But the bottom line is simple: WoW has always abused its powerful characters, in that sense the fate of the titans is not too different from the fate of the old gods or of the demon lords.

[Joshuaj]

A good story doesn't need gods.
Of all the things Legion did wrong that wasn't one of them; Aggramar was a tormented husk and Argus a barely formed misshapen titan thing, while Sargeras was restrained by the others.

It does however need better writing, both for the forces that be (non-sentient as they are) as well as for the near-gods that populate said writing.

The old gods were treated much worse, especially given the inconsistency they left regarding the question of "Why imprison them? What makes their relation to death and entripy even special at this point?".

Though admittedly the old gods are still salvageable.

But the bottom line is simple: WoW has always abused its powerful characters, in that sense the fate of the titans is not too different from the fate of the old gods or of the demon lords.

Yeah even tho Aggramar was an avatar (Not Argus or the actual Titan spirits at the Seat of the Pantheon. Idk where people got that misinformation from), the actual problem kinda stems from the fact that our first in-game showcase of the Titans has them getting fucked over multiple times by Sargeras

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A pretty pitiful display ngl.

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Yeah imma deem my personally made Cosmology Charts as factual. I'll link it to you guys VIA an Imgur link, but it basically takes the Chronicle and Grimoire charts and expands on them whilist keeping things equal

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What do you guys think? Sorry if it's a lil hard to read