Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Telogrus]

Why do people keep saying Sargeras will be the final boss of TLT? It seems painfully obvious that they’re setting up Aman’thul to be a bad guy

[huth]

Why do people keep saying Sargeras will be the final boss of TLT? It seems painfully obvious that they’re setting up Aman’thul to be a bad guy

I'm not even going to guess until at least halfway through Midnight. People have a bad habit of getting overly fixated on their preferred outcome without any regards to the story.

[Alanar]

Bring up times in the game which makes you and others think that Turalyon will end up evil. Because this is what both you and Bauman keep talking about. Because I don't get it. You guys say he's a zealot fanatic but never provide context or situations where that's the case?

All I said in the past, was that I can imagine him being pushed over, but I said the same thing about Alleria. Anything can happen. As I said to others, for me this was about how this started and that was how the light interacted back in Legion. I believed Turalyon would be the perfect puppet, especially how devoted he is. Since he has no further story currently going for him, (idk about him showing up in tww, besides the landing.) it's been rather quiet for him to think much to begin with.

Idk about Bauman theory, I just had several people saying to me, hes talking about white male toxic stuff and Alleria is Queer or something. I really don't care or know about these things at all. I just see people getting triggered left and right, because of Turalyon.. again, uch.

[Eldryth]

I can agree, with the times how beloved characters get ruined, with certain takes, Sure that sadly happens. Also, don't get me wrong, I have seen people saying how they liked how Sylvanas ended up. Despite what many people here say and I agree with as well.. you/we are still dealing with different opinions. Kael'thas is famous on that route, because he was a favorite coming straight out of warcraft 3, (personal favorite as well) and suddenly he ended up being a villain. That didn't fit hes character, but it did happen. They are more carefull now.. or atleast they tie it into a story. BC was just weird in so many ways.

With it being brought up, it was mostly the way the Light interacted, that is were it all came from, with that and how Turalyon is so light devoted, making him the perfect puppet. For example: Before Yrel showed up with her Light Army in a destructive way, was it fitting for her? or just different timeline reasoning.

Some people might like the final version of Sylvanas in a vacuum, but she is absolutely not the Sylvanas from pre-BFA, or the Sylvanas of early BFA, or the Sylvanas from the end of BFA. There is no coherent character development there, just her completely changing several times over. That's not an opinion, it's an objective fact- and that is what it would take to turn Turalyon into a tyrant at that point.

And as I said in a previous post, I didn't like that development for Yrel either. But the damage is done there, and as someone else pointed out, she changed over the course of a long time skip, and we had only known her at the start of her story when she was pretty undeveloped. I may not like that choice, but it's plausible for an inexperienced idealist to change as she grows up.

Turalyon, on the other hand, already spent a thousand years working with the most controlling Light entity that we've met so far and remained reasonable. He defends the responsible use of the Void, he worked with Illidan after he killed Xe'ra (once he got over the momentary shock), and now he's working well with the Horde he once hated. It'd be another matter if he hadn't had his experience with the Army of the Light already, but given that he's already gone through that without becoming a zealot, why would that suddenly change now?

[Alanar]

Turalyon, on the other hand, already spent a thousand years working with the most controlling Light entity that we've met so far and remained reasonable. He defends the responsible use of the Void, he worked with Illidan after he killed Xe'ra (once he got over the momentary shock), and now he's working well with the Horde he once hated. It'd be another matter if he hadn't had his experience with the Army of the Light already, but given that he's already gone through that without becoming a zealot, why would that suddenly change now?

Turalyon might have done all these great things, but hes story doesn't go much further than fighting demons for x years in space, anything prior that is irrelevant.We would need story for him first, I don't think we have to much reasons to think hes zealot right now, but I can't say something like that will never happen either tbh. For example, how far will he go for the light, when Alleria is getting deeper and deeper into the Void. It's one of those questions that popped up in the q&a for example. That still wouldn't make him a zealot perse, but what if the Light has other plans, when Turalyon wants to be close to Alleria. Beings like Xe'ra can force the light on people, but could it also enslave or mc people? while infusing them. Illidan is a rare example ofc, because he was way to powerfull. Yrel is of a much lower powerlevel in that sense.

Well, we kinda followed her in Wod. She started with no armor, barely any skill. She got armor along the way and ended up in the final cinematic with her Mace in the air, screaming Dreanor is free. I think she showed up in like 4 cinematic in total of wod? I think she ended up being pretty confident. Idk her showing up like that, had no leads or reasons really. I mean sure, she has not been around so that is maybe plausible, but it's a big change on her I think. We don't exactly know how she got so influenced or fanatic with the light. Was that maybe forced as Illidan or did she suddenly started hating everyone and everything?

But why didn't Turalyon said or act something sooner? Everyone saw what Xe'ra did. It's impressive Turalyon remained cool afterwards, but honestly it's not as impressive if you think about it, because he knew there was a much greater threat in the Legion, everyone knew as well. He would be the odd one out, if he continued fighting Illidan, while the Legion was right outside. Illidan also blocked hes sword with one hand while being crippled. Turalyon was smart to focus on the goal, like everyone else.

[Cheezits]

Why do people keep saying Sargeras will be the final boss of TLT? It seems painfully obvious that they’re setting up Aman’thul to be a bad guy

It can go in a lot of different ways.

- Aman'thul has antagonistic goals, but he isn't a villain and doesn't fight us. Odyn amplifies the worst traits of the Titans (hubris, deception, desire for control) and ends up being the final boss.

-Aman'thul fights us in an epic time travel fight after we deal with Iridikron and Odyn/keepers/titans that side with him over us.

-Sargeras killsteals Aman'thul to 1v1 us after we've dealt with "Amanthul's Bad Titans", in a battle with us for ultimate control over Azeroth (who he always wanted to "save")

-Some wacky Constellar monster or god above even Aman'thul

-Iridikron is the final boss somehow

-Tyr is the final boss somehow

-Suddenly Azshara

I think some of these are more likely than others (option B and C) but all are actually possible, and then some even crazier ideas.

[Nightshade711]

I wouldn’t be surprised if blizzard throws us a curveball with The Last Titan.

Remember, this was Xal’atath’s comment when we arrived at the Seat of the Pantheon:

Long have we sought entry into this realm! To think we have a mortal to thank for giving us our foothold. Your service will be remembered! (at the Seat of the Pantheon)

I think the pantheon will be killed (again) and The Last Titan will be Azeroth, or blizzard makes Amitus from HS canon & she’s “The Last Titan”

[Golden Yak]

The Pantheon goes down, Azeroth is de-Titan-ified and becomes just a Worldsoul, and Sargeras is free to reboot the Burning Legion. The Last Titan is the ultimate classic Warcraft big bad. Queue the new era of waiting for that hammer to fall.

[Kiivar86]

So I got to wondering, the Pantheon, are they sealed in that little area with Sargeras and Illidan? I assumed they were all this time but looking things up I'm not 100% sure anymore.

Going with my assumption they are, I don't really expect them to return in TLT in good health, but maybe being stuck with Sargeras for years they worked things out, I dunno.

But I expect a curveball for a final boss either way.

[Jolly Roger]

So I got to wondering, the Pantheon, are they sealed in that little area with Sargeras and Illidan? I assumed they were all this time but looking things up I'm not 100% sure anymore.

Going with my assumption they are, I don't really expect them to return in TLT in good health, but maybe being stuck with Sargeras for years they worked things out, I dunno.

But I expect a curveball for a final boss either way.

the idea is they sealed the rift that linked us to the seat
that is what the big bright star in the sky is about
once it goes out we will see them return because that means the seal isnt there and the seat has fallen

[Golden Yak]

You gotta wonder what's gonna be up with Illidan too. Did he make friends with the Titans? Did he also get thrown in jail? Has he been brain-washerd, orderized, or whatever?

[Kiivar86]

the idea is they sealed the rift that linked us to the seat
that is what the big bright star in the sky is about
once it goes out we will see them return because that means the seal isnt there and the seat has fallen

That's what I had figured but I'm just now wondering if we have anything actually backing it up. I poked around through the wiki and watched the cinematic and Illidan's definitely there of course but I can't see anything about the pantheon still being there too.

But yeah my point is if they are released from there I don't expect them to be in tip top shape.

[Jolly Roger]

That's what I had figured but I'm just now wondering if we have anything actually backing it up. I poked around through the wiki and watched the cinematic and Illidan's definitely there of course but I can't see anything about the pantheon still being there too.

But yeah my point is if they are released from there I don't expect them to be in tip top shape.

in the cinematic they are all in their seats

[micwini]

This is really not true. People were complaining, because BfA was an absolute culmination of borrowed powers grind:
- Azerite gear, usually had to grind different set for each spec
- Essences - some of most popular Essences had ridiculous grind requirements (Blood of the Enemy rank 3 - 40k honor farmed), and they were NOT account shared.
- 8.2 Benthic gear for sockets, a noticeable power increase
- 8.3 Corruption gear - lots of grinding for highest rank, combined with legendary cloak lvl up

It was not vocal minority that complained about all of this. Each week I saw posts on Reddit begging Blizz to make Essences account-wide. Only patch 8.3 introduced a vendor that sold them, along with Corrupted gear. But of course, you had to grind the unified currency. Also, vendor offer was on a three weeks rotation.

BfA was definitely THE MOST grindy expansion in terms of player power. It is not a coincidence that SL greatly reduced the grind.

Reddit = vocal minority

[Makabreska]

Reddit = vocal minority

Ok, so there was no grind I just listed? Care to refer to that?

[Raetary]

So I got to wondering, the Pantheon, are they sealed in that little area with Sargeras and Illidan? I assumed they were all this time but looking things up I'm not 100% sure anymore.

They are all at the Seat of the Pantheon, yes.

They are the ones keeping Sargeras imprisoned.

[micwini]

Ok, so there was no grind I just listed? Care to refer to that?

Didnt say that. There was a grind and only a vocal minority didnt like it. People like deterministic things you can farm. AP wasn't an issue, it only was for the vocal minority that 'feels like' they have to always keep grinding. There was no point in grinding excessive amounts unless you were a top 0.1% raider.
Essences were a good grind: Some time and effort with a definitive endpoint

[KOUNTERPARTS]

You gotta wonder what's gonna be up with Illidan too. Did he make friends with the Titans? Did he also get thrown in jail? Has he been brain-washerd, orderized, or whatever?

I thought, at least back then, the titans used up what remained of their power to not only manifest Argus the Unmaker but to also contain Sargeras at the throne. I was under the impression they just... dissipated. Like dust in the wind.

Would be an interesting development if all of the Titan Pantheon + Sargeras has just been... sitting in their chairs for years, while Illidan is able to pace back and forth between the seats, keeping an eye on Sargeras. Like a dog in a very small kennel.

Illidan-- pacing exactly nine paces in each direction, never taking his gaze off of Sargeras. Blizzard had a golden opportunity to showcase that. A callback to this 10,000 years imprisonment.

[Lady Atia]

Didnt say that. There was a grind and only a vocal minority didnt like it. People like deterministic things you can farm. AP wasn't an issue, it only was for the vocal minority that 'feels like' they have to always keep grinding. There was no point in grinding excessive amounts unless you were a top 0.1% raider.
Essences were a good grind: Some time and effort with a definitive endpoint

I think I just good morning sickness. AP was always the issue, as far back as Legion were you couldn't play more than one spec at the start (especially if you got the wrong legendary on top), and I'm saying this as a person who usually prefers to play one spec per character anyways. Essences were also the biggest bullshit ever, on par with their conduit cousins from Shadowlands. On top of that, all of the shit you had to farm in order to play a patch were gone as soon as the next Expansion hit .... if they had build on artifacts in Legion the whole system could have worked, but making everything irrelevant after an expansion is literally the antithesis to WoW. What made this game big is that whatever you invested stayed for your character for ever, which only got solidified when WotLK prepatch hit thanks to achievements, and even more so with transmog and other collections.

Even corruptions were only cool as long as there was no vendor (yes, hang me) since as soon as you could choose which corruptions to use you were stuck with your "bis" corruptions, so it was all just a grind with an illusion of choice anyways. Twillight Dev was fun as a tank though as long as you didn't had to get versa ones because your key level got over 21.

[loras]

I think I just good morning sickness. AP was always the issue, as far back as Legion were you couldn't play more than one spec at the start (especially if you got the wrong legendary on top), and I'm saying this as a person who usually prefers to play one spec per character anyways. Essences were also the biggest bullshit ever, on par with their conduit cousins from Shadowlands. On top of that, all of the shit you had to farm in order to play a patch were gone as soon as the next Expansion hit .... if they had build on artifacts in Legion the whole system could have worked, but making everything irrelevant after an expansion is literally the antithesis to WoW. What made this game big is that whatever you invested stayed for your character for ever, which only got solidified when WotLK prepatch hit thanks to achievements, and even more so with transmog and other collections.

Even corruptions were only cool as long as there was no vendor (yes, hang me) since as soon as you could choose which corruptions to use you were stuck with your "bis" corruptions, so it was all just a grind with an illusion of choice anyways. Twillight Dev was fun as a tank though as long as you didn't had to get versa ones because your key level got over 21.

Systems will always converge on optimal solutions, which only become mandatory at the most testing of difficulties.
Sounds like the issue would be better solved by axing those solutions which demand too much optimisation (where possible).