Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[guro-tchai]

Someone is picking up and loading all those bananas.

world of warcraft: united in fruit
a story about the evils of colonialism with nightsquall as the new liberation icon
you heard it here first

[huth]

Someone is picking up and loading all those bananas.

Clearly, it's inhabited by sapient bananas who are sending their children out into the world to find new places to settle. And they're starting to wonder why so many of them don't come back...

[Ersula]

Imo Avaloren
11.0 Pirates
11.1 Odyn
11.2 Local Old God
11.3 Something with local Titan Tech/Azshara

This basically proves Avaloren will be the location of 10.3 as the long standing tradition of Blizzard taking something that could have been the basis of an entire expansion & cramming it all into the final patch:

Argus
N'zoth's invasion of Azeroth
Zereth Mortis

[Nymrohd]

This basically proves Avaloren will be the location of 10.3 as the long standing tradition of Blizzard taking something that could have been the basis of an entire expansion & cramming it all into the final patch:

Argus
N'zoth's invasion of Azeroth
Zereth Mortis

Haha. Well if you followed the thread my original hypothesis is that we will go to Avaloren in 10.3 which will have part of the continent that is outside the shield.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Haha. Well if you followed the thread my original hypothesis is that we will go to Avaloren in 10.3 which will have part of the continent that is outside the shield.

Except Argus would of been mostly a lot of Fel and ugly rock. N'zoth invasion of Azeroth would be hard to pull off worldwide(Cause the old world is decently sized lets all be honest).


ZM being a whole expansion.....


Hehe..... I won't go there.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I don't know, the whole turning expansion concepts into major patches are just not good for the longevity of the product and honestly it has just lessened the potential experience of experiencing the environments that people wanted full fledged expansions centered around instead while devaluing the property.

[Nymrohd]

Except Argus would of been mostly a lot of Fel and ugly rock. N'zoth invasion of Azeroth would be hard to pull off worldwide(Cause the old world is decently sized lets all be honest).

I really expected something very different from Argus. Eredath and the Antoran Wastes did not dissapoint me and they could have been entire zones and you could have set up Light and Void forces to help us win the war in the Legion's home turf. I hoped there would be a Suramar-like zone of Eredar architecture in the Red/Gold/Black scheme of the WoD Sargerei were we would be infilitrating a capital (also hoped that Velen's wife Nuuri was still alive and replaced him in the Triumvirate alongside KJ and Archi)

And I did want some worldwide invasion. Broken Isles were a succesful expansion continent but the plot of Legion could have happened all over Azeroth, picking several zones across four continents (Kalimdor, EK, Northrend and Pandaria) to visually update (like Arathi) and having the pre-expansion event invasions be something that lasted the entire expac with possible Legion raids of capital cities (we know at least Exodar and Thunder Bluff were invaded). Then the Pillars could have been all over the world instead of all being in one place.

[Harbour]

I like this idea, honestly. It would be a fitting end to Turalyon, which has been one of the few consistent characters in the Warcraft universe.

To make his death more heroic, I would have him beat Yrel, but then Lightforged Garrosh comes, saves Yrel and kills Turalyon.

Damn, this one would be really cool, mirroring Turalyon himself taking on Orgrim after later defeat Anduin Lothar.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I really expected something very different from Argus. Eredath and the Antoran Wastes did not dissapoint me and they could have been entire zones and you could have set up Light and Void forces to help us win the war in the Legion's home turf. I hoped there would be a Suramar-like zone of Eredar architecture in the Red/Gold/Black scheme of the WoD Sargerei were we would be infilitrating a capital (also hoped that Velen's wife Nuuri was still alive and replaced him in the Triumvirate alongside KJ and Archi)

I assumed the planet wasn't well partly cracking apart. On one hand yeah Fel corruption can lead to it but on the other I did at least before Argus showed up there was some super big demon citadel at the heart of the Legion and(Naively I might add on this part) a throne for Sargeras to sit on or some form of him cause why not top it off). But they did what they did and I'm not entirely bothered by it, assuming there were no scrapped ideas for Argus that we don't know about.

And I did want some worldwide invasion. Broken Isles were a succesful expansion continent but the plot of Legion could have happened all over Azeroth, picking several zones across four continents (Kalimdor, EK, Northrend and Pandaria) to visually update (like Arathi) and having the pre-expansion event invasions be something that lasted the entire expac with possible Legion raids of capital cities (we know at least Exodar and Thunder Bluff were invaded). Then the Pillars could have been all over the world instead of all being in one place.

Yes that would be nice but its much harder to implement in practice on a level that fans would appreciate. Granted Legion was definitely something(Minus the Legendary weapon AP farm but thats another talk).

[Nymrohd]

Yes that would be nice but its much harder to implement in practice on a level that fans would appreciate. Granted Legion was definitely something(Minus the Legendary weapon AP farm but thats another talk).

Absolutely. Just the traveling alone would be annoying just like it was in Cata and SL where the zones were so disjointed. Dragonriding could have solved that but did not even exist back then. As for N'zoth invasions, honestly could be similar to what we got, just with more zones and the Visions expanded to be the main feature.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

world of warcraft: united in fruit
a story about the evils of colonialism with nightsquall as the new liberation icon
you heard it here first

That sounds about typical Blizzard-tier hypocrisy; they'd have to include a union-busting arc to balance things out, however.

I really expected something very different from Argus. Eredath and the Antoran Wastes did not dissapoint me and they could have been entire zones and you could have set up Light and Void forces to help us win the war in the Legion's home turf. I hoped there would be a Suramar-like zone of Eredar architecture in the Red/Gold/Black scheme of the WoD Sargerei were we would be infilitrating a capital (also hoped that Velen's wife Nuuri was still alive and replaced him in the Triumvirate alongside KJ and Archi)

Indeed, Argus simply felt far too devastated. I usually chalk it up in my headcanon to years of Lightforged bombardment with the Xenedar culminating in a great deal of infrastructural devastation; compounding this is the fact we're specifically targeting military infrastructure, so it may be less livable around Antorus than anywhere else on Argus. It would have been nice to see Argussian civilization at its height, rather than just have a rather barren, unlivable society. It makes sense in the context of us specifically targeting relevant military infrastructure instead of the bulk of the planet, but it's still a shame.

Having a continent appear out of the mists for a 3rd time would be plain stupid IMO. "Lol again?, sure hahah".
I can't really see Avaloren be more than a patch zone later on in the expansion, but we'd have to see.

At this age in WoW's life people need to be willing to suspend their disbelief that new continents need to appear and the lore for why they haven't been explored or talked about before needs to be handwaived or magicdidit™ like with Pandaria

To me, Avaloren works because it's being built up as something that legitimately belongs in World of Warcraft; it's being built up to feature familiar threats (e.g. Naga, Titan Watchers, Pirates) rather than new ones abruptly invented to justify the expansion, and the idea of a mysterious continent of Titanic infrastructure inaccessible to us on the other side of Azeroth works both on account of feeling like an addition we could expect from early WoW and because of the general interest people have had in that region for some time.

Interestingly, one contributing factor may be that Avaloren could be based on old concept maps by Metzen, which feature a continent to the southwest of Kalimdor; this continent goes by the same name as Ulduar, suggesting Titan influence. It's probable that proto-Ulduar was just intended to be analogous to southern Kalimdor or Uldum in particular, but the similarities do tickle the imagination.

[Nymrohd]

That sounds about typical Blizzard-tier hypocrisy; they'd have to include a union-busting arc to balance things out, however.

- - - Updated - - -



Indeed, Argus simply felt far too devastated. I usually chalk it up in my headcanon to years of Lightforged bombardment with the Xenedar culminating in a great deal of infrastructural devastation; compounding this is the fact we're specifically targeting military infrastructure, so it may be less livable around Antorus than anywhere else on Argus. It would have been nice to see Argussian civilization at its height, rather than just have a rather barren, unlivable society. It makes sense in the context of us specifically targeting relevant military infrastructure instead of the bulk of the planet, but it's still a shame.

My version of Argus would have been an expansion. The reason we can stand up to the Legion is only because both the Xenedar and the Army of Light (which would be an ARMY) as well as a significant Void force in Eredath are also besieging them at the same time. Beyond the Nuuri plot (who I would have made a pragmatist and the logistics expert of the Legion, the actual leader behind KJ's 4D plots and Archimonde's raw power) I think a good option for visual variety would be to seize some gates to Legion worlds early on; adding a Ruins of Nathreza and a Xoroth zone.

- - - Updated - - -

Interestingly, one contributing factor may be that Avaloren could be based on old concept maps by Metzen, which feature a continent to the southwest of Kalimdor; this continent goes by the same name as Ulduar, suggesting Titan influence. It's probable that proto-Ulduar was just intended to be analogous to southern Kalimdor or Uldum in particular, but the similarities do tickle the imagination.

I think in a different set he replaced Ulduar there with Kezan. He was just moving things around. The real interesting part for me was that originally Kalimdor was really Mt Hyjal and the areas around it and nothing more.

[huth]

I think you're all a little confused about what the Legion was. It's not a culture or society. It was a military organisation with one specific goal. Argus was a military base, not home to the Legion's civilians. Because the Legion did not have any.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I think you're all a little confused about what the Legion was. It's not a culture or society. It was a military organisation with one specific goal. Argus was a military base, not home to the Legion's civilians. Because the Legion did not have any.

Other lore, including from the Illidan novel released in the prelude to Legion, contradicts that claim: Nathreza had libraries, and Argus was described as having towering, golden spires, if I recall correctly.

[Nymrohd]

I think you're all a little confused about what the Legion was. It's not a culture or society. It was a military organisation with one specific goal. Argus was a military base, not home to the Legion's civilians. Because the Legion did not have any.

Militaries need a support structure. Sargeras recruited the Eredar specifically to provide that.

[Darkarath]

I still find dissapointing how we dealt with the Legion, although within the limitations of WoW I think that they did a pretty good job. IMO 7.3 was awesome. Argus was really cool and I support the approach that they took with it.

Nevertheless, from a lore perspective, it is ridiculous how weak the Legion was. We are talking about an army that has destroyed thousands of planets, recruited very powerful races, with a very advanced technology and probably unlimited resources from those conquered planets. In the way that Blizzard pictured the Legion, it should have hundreds of thousands of demons, probably millions, across the entire universe. If they really wanted to conquer us, they should have done it easily.

I have no doubt that the Legion will return in some way. I hope that it receives a kind of Illidan treatment. Meaning that it was so busy fighting the Void in thousands of planets for millenia, that it never could attack Azeroth with their full might.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I still find dissapointing how we dealt with the Legion, although within the limitations of WoW I think that they did a pretty good job. IMO 7.3 was awesome. Argus was really cool and I support the approach that they took with it.

Nevertheless, from a lore perspective, it is ridiculous how weak the Legion was. We are talking about an army that has destroyed thousands of planets, recruited very powerful races, with a very advanced technology and probably unlimited resources from those conquered planets. In the way that Blizzard pictured the Legion, it should have hundred of thousands of demons, probably millions, across the entire universe. If they really wanted to conquer us, they should have done it easily.

I have no doubt that the Legion will return in some way. I hope that it receives a kind of Illidan treatment. Meaning that it was so busy fighting the Void in thousands of planets for millenia, that it never could attack Azeroth with their full might.

That's mostly cuz it's just a ridiculous high fantasy concept. There's planet destroying starships yet people are using swords

[huth]

Nevertheless, from a lore perspective, it is ridiculous how weak the Legion was. We are talking about an army that has destroyed thousands of planets, recruited very powerful races, with a very advanced technology and probably unlimited resources from those conquered planets. In the way that Blizzard pictured the Legion, it should have hundreds of thousands of demons, probably millions, across the entire universe. If they really wanted to conquer us, they should have done it easily.

My thinking is that they just never took us as a serious threat and simply didn't bother to allocate major forces. And if we hadn't just so happened to come across the captured Titans and freed them, we would indeed not have had any way to actually stop Sargeras from getting Azeroth.

Though it should also be considered that the Legion, powerful as it was, was basically unfit for its actual purpose. In the entire time since it took Argus, they wouldn't reasonably have been able to scour even a single galaxy of life, and the fact the Shadowlands still had a consistent stream of incoming souls from all over (the drought was caused by the Arbiter going defunct, not a lack of souls) shows that they probably didn't even make a significant dent.

[Nymrohd]

My thinking is that they just never took us as a serious threat and simply didn't bother to allocate major forces. And if we hadn't just so happened to come across the captured Titans and freed them, we would indeed not have had any way to actually stop Sargeras from getting Azeroth.

Though it should also be considered that the Legion, powerful as it was, was basically unfit for its actual purpose. In the entire time since it took Argus, they wouldn't reasonably have been able to scour even a single galaxy of life, and the fact the Shadowlands still had a consistent stream of incoming souls from all over (the drought was caused by the Arbiter going defunct, not a lack of souls) shows that they probably didn't even make a significant dent.

Heck what makes the additions to the lore in SL seem so inconsistent to me is that Sargeras, armed with the knowledge of the Pantheon and more, did not try to just use one of the Zereths to affect change on a universal level. Which he didn't because all that lore likely did not exist back then.

[Scyth]

A good way of causing massive destruction would be destroying the elemental planes that the Titans created. I still believe that we would see a meeting between the Incarnates and the Elemental Lords, as they were natural allies, and it would be very interesting to see where the Elemental Lords loyalties lie.

I'd actually love to see an interaction between the Elemental Lords and the Incarnates, however long/short etc. It might be.
Wouldn't also mind if we somehow imprisoned the Incarnates in the planes if we can't defeat them as I really don't want us killing every single villain.