Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It will be its own expansion and Saga based on... what?

That people have hyped themselves up and become convinced of their emerging expectations, obviously.

[Joshuaj]

"This could have been a standalone expansion setting" has been the premise of the final tier of every expansion since Legion

Argus - Ny'alotha - Realm of the First Ones - The Emerald Dream

Although I fully predict the saga is breaking that trend - Only so Avaloren can be the final tier of The Last Titan.

Or...hear me out.

Domain of Order for the final area of TLT, but instead of us actually going there VIA a zone, we go there VIA separate instances in trials against the Titans.

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Think of it akin to the trials of the Twelve from FFXIV

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It won't happen, but it's a fun thought

[Auxis]

Anyone who plays Frost DK know of any spells or talents that cause a weird blue circle explosion?
Just did a Strat UD in random dungeons; consisting of me (WW Monk), Prot Pally, Frost DK, and a Pres Evoker.

I'm very confident it wasn't from me or the prot pally. It looks nothing like what a Prot pally uses, and the closest thing I would have is Chi Explosion but I don't have it talented. Possible it could have been from the Pres evoker but they are more green and bronze coloured.

For context, a mob exploded this blue circle when it died or is what killed it. Didn't see any other mobs of that type do it; sorta gave vibes of that Shadowflame explosion that Aff locks have as talent. It didn't look like Howling Blast; this thing was like a solid dark blue circle with a lighter blue ring on the edge that radiated out from the mob. Could also have been a mob but looking through wowhead, none of the mo s in there appear to have anything similar in their abilities list.

[username993720]

Why do you feel Beyond the Veil was executed better?
I can't just be because there was a narration.

Smoother storyboard.

[FossilFree]

Anyone who plays Frost DK know of any spells or talents that cause a weird blue circle explosion?
Just did a Strat UD in random dungeons; consisting of me (WW Monk), Prot Pally, Frost DK, and a Pres Evoker.

I'm very confident it wasn't from me or the prot pally. It looks nothing like what a Prot pally uses, and the closest thing I would have is Chi Explosion but I don't have it talented. Possible it could have been from the Pres evoker but they are more green and bronze coloured.

For context, a mob exploded this blue circle when it died or is what killed it. Didn't see any other mobs of that type do it; sorta gave vibes of that Shadowflame explosion that Aff locks have as talent. It didn't look like Howling Blast; this thing was like a solid dark blue circle with a lighter blue ring on the edge that radiated out from the mob. Could also have been a mob but looking through wowhead, none of the mo s in there appear to have anything similar in their abilities list.

It's the talent called Icy Death Torrent.

[Trazzle]

There’s also a crafted item in DF that causes a frosty circle upon death.

[Golden Yak]

I'd be down for an Avaloren saga. 1/3rd of the continent explored at a time. Something a bit more grounded, closer to home, starting with a smaller scope, that of exploring a fantastic long-concealed new land. Maybe some element of the Black Empire survives there hidden for us to uncover. It doesn't need to have universe- or world-shattering implications, it being a localized threat to us and our new allies with implications for our homelands beyond Avaloren would be enough.

[Dracullus]

I'd be down for an Avaloren saga. 1/3rd of the continent explored at a time. Something a bit more grounded, closer to home, starting with a smaller scope, that of exploring a fantastic long-concealed new land. Maybe some element of the Black Empire survives there hidden for us to uncover. It doesn't need to have universe- or world-shattering implications, it being a localized threat to us and our new allies with implications for our homelands beyond Avaloren would be enough.

I think it's good to have proportion 2:1 between 'revamp' expac and new continent, it will make exploring new lands more exciting. I hope next Saga will be like that, for example Southern Kalimdor + Northern Kalimdor + Avaloren.

5-6 years in Avaloren would create massive fatigue. Don't you remember how people hated Avaloren leak before last Blizzcon? It's because both SL and DF were completely fresh lore. Only perspective of QT/Northrend in near future made people accept new continent in 11.0.

[Golden Yak]

I think it's good to have proportion 2:1 between 'revamp' expac and new continent, it will make exploring new lands more exciting. I hope next Saga will be like that, for example Southern Kalimdor + Northern Kalimdor + Avaloren.

5-6 years in Avaloren would create massive fatigue. Don't you remember how people hated Avaloren leak before last Blizzcon? It's because both SL and DF were completely fresh lore. Only perspective of QT/Northrend in near future made people accept new continent in 11.0.

I wouldn't mind sporadic revamps, but I also don't really want Avaloren to just be one expansion's worth of stuff - a new continent that's just the same scale as something like Dragonflight or Pandaria. I want a big sprawling sucker that takes time to fully explore. If we get a batch of four fresh zones per xpac, I don't know that the danger of fatigue is there just because the batches happen to be on the same landmass.

[Nibelheimy]

I know they've said we're returning to Northrend. But if we return to Ulduar at TLT intro, all titans die. Could be interesting if Ulduar could be used to locate one remaining lost titan. If they canonise Amitus and make her located on Avaloren. Either working with or imprisoned by, the Arathi empire. It could be used as a expansion setting.

Saying that, I fully believe they intend to use Avaloren as a saga setting after this one.

[Auxis]

There’s also a crafted item in DF that causes a frosty circle upon death.

Do you know if it is a weapon enchant, trinket, or a consumable?

This was all 50 DK so I'm not sure if they'd have it but I'd like to not discount the possibility.

[Trazzle]

Do you know if it is a weapon enchant, trinket, or a consumable?

This was all 50 DK so I'm not sure if they'd have it but I'd like to not discount the possibility.

Unstable frostfire belt, plate, level 70 req.prob

[Eldryth]

Avaloren should definitely be a full expansion. I wouldn't rule out a patch entirely, after they wasted all those other concepts already... but the Arathi Empire is definitely a big enough concept that it'd be a huge waste to just explore it in a patch. Plus it really doesn't fit into any of the Saga expansion concepts (unless Midnight has us beating the Void anticlimactically early and then pivots into fighting the Light in the final patch, but I can't see either side being done justice with that pacing).

I really can't see why anyone would want to see every plot hook get rushed resolutions in a patch. They have a great opportunity to expand the setting here, they should actually take the time to flesh these new places out instead of just cramming them into a single zone. It was a huge relief to see that they actually made Khaz Algar a full continent instead of having it be a single zone on Avaloren as the leaks suggested- they made it a great setting in its own right rather than a single small zone. Avaloren- and the Arathi Empire, if they turn out to be different- should get that kind of focus too.

We don't exactly have many expansion-sized unexplored regions left on Azeroth, so they shouldn't be wasted. I'd even say that they should use the Arathi homeland story to tease even more places beyond the Storming Sea, so we'll have more places to explore going forward. Expanding the setting is a good thing, assuming they do a good job with the new locations.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I like the idea that Azeroth (as in the world) will be destroyed in The Last Titan, either by the Worldsoul haching to do battle against an enemy or some calamity brought about by an enemy, and the Horde and Alliance will escape into portals to another world like what Turalyon's Alliance forces did at the end of Beyond the Dark Portal as Draenor was being destroyed. Then we go touring other worlds (or dimensions/universes like Shadowlands).

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I know they've said we're returning to Northrend. But if we return to Ulduar at TLT intro, all titans die. Could be interesting if Ulduar could be used to locate one remaining lost titan. If they canonise Amitus and make her located on Avaloren. Either working with or imprisoned by, the Arathi empire. It could be used as a expansion setting.

Saying that, I fully believe they intend to use Avaloren as a saga setting after this one.

I am not sure how Avaloren as an entire continent could be fit into the next two expansions. From what info we have:

Midnight: Quel'thelas gets invaded by the Void.

The Last Titan: starts with us going to Ulduar to contact the Titans to ask them for help, presumably because something bad has happened and the planet is dying.

It is reasonable to assume that Midnight's zones will be centered around Quel'thelas and the Void dimension. If Avaloren is featured then it is as a patch zone where the heroes go to a part of Avaloren (ie, a monastery in a vast mountain range, or a temple on an offshore island) to fetch some Light artifact to use against the Void or something.

People have inferred that Ulduar will be the capital city of The Last Titan, though the premise does not sound like the expansion takes place in the surrounding area like how Midnight's plot very much would have zones in the area surrounding Silvermoon city. So theoretically TLT could be another Cataclysm or Endwalker styled expansion in which bad stuff is happening all over the world and we get new zones spread out in plot relevant locations rather than adjacent to each other as a part of a new unified landmass. Legion and BFA failed to effectively deliever on the premise of an expansion about a climatic worldwide struggle by centralizing their narrative in a new expansion land. Again, an Avaloren zone could be fit into here, but it would be weird to have it be an entire continent but the new expansion city of Ulduar is not located on that continent. Or going to Ulduar is just the intro storyline like going to Daladan will be in theupcoming TWW, in which then new expansion city is Doronogal. Still, it would be weird for the final part of the Worldsoul Saga to take place entirely in Avaloren rather than in various places across the rest of the world.

[Dracullus]

Avaloren is just name currently. To make people hyped about it, they need years of small mentions here and there, or people/villains coming from there. I doubt it will ever reach stutus of, let's say, Argus or Zandalar, but they can hope more people will be excited than dissapointed like before 11.0 reveal.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

To me the issue with TWW's world is the missed potential. It's the underground expansion but you only get three underground zones, when there could have been so much more.

[Xilurm]

To me the issue with TWW's world is the missed potential. It's the underground expansion but you only get three underground zones, when there could have been so much more.

https://i.imgur.com/ud1PZNV.jpeg

Is this from journey to the center of the earth or something?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Is this from journey to the center of the earth or something?

Made in Abyss

[Auxis]

Is this from journey to the center of the earth or something?

Idk. But there is 3 or 4 biomes (surface crater greenery, then a sharp drop via waterfall through the green and beige layers, 2nd biome is the pale blue mushroom thing, then a weird entropic 3rd biome (purple) with ruined buildings and a clock tower and basalt/crystal columns, and then a cross section of an eldritch reproductive system?).

And probably 2 of those are thematically "underground zones", the other 2 (purple ruins and eldritch reproductive system) and artistic freedom/unique story points.

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Note, we've still got Iridkron's lair and the nerubian kingdom in TLT to potentially deal with. And the neruian chasm in Northrend is DEEP. You can see lava flows in Ahn'kahet, I'd wager some deeper parts interact with Yogg's body.

Plus, I think they are playing safe with the cave zones in TWW as people would get burnt out from being underground and claustrophobic. Hallowfall has an almost surface world feel, ringing deeps have the sunshafts, the nerubian zone is entirely alien, more so than Zaralekk.

[Makorus]

I feel like the only zone that really feels like an Underground zone is Ringing Deeps, maybe Azjkahet, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

The thing with people constantly bringing up the whole Hollow Earth concepts is the fact that it's a case of "Have your cake and eat it too", where you add technically underground zones, that don't feel like Underground zones and don't look like Underground zones, at which point, do you even have an underground zone? You could place Hallowfall next to Isle of Dorn with a different skybox and it would fit right in. I wouldn't really call that an underground zone, even though it technically is.