Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Yes, having Alleria rush after Anduin and kill, for example, a nerubian he'd swayed up to this point because of his empathy, some mid-tier dude, which is then spun into propaganda and having the Vizier take an interest in them because of their ability to tip the scales and knowledge of Xal'atath would allow Xal's speech to actually land with some meat and it'd also skip us the obnoxious Anduin lecture, which is too on the nose for what it has to work with. The Nerubian worldbuilding is strong enough that it doesn't need Jiminy Cricket telling us that we're all in this together.

There is the failed assassination of the queen I suppose. Though I am still not entirely sure what would have been achieved by waiting. Some better laid plan to assassinate her right after maybe?

In many ways it's very similar to the Alliance arc in BfA. We know what the moral of the story is, not just because it's obvious, but because it's pushed in our faces. The writers just forgot to add any point in the story during which we actually saw the consequences of failing those morals.

[Super Dickmann]

There is the failed assassination of the queen I suppose. Though I am still not entirely sure what would have been achieved by waiting. Some better laid plan to assassinate her right after maybe?

In many ways it's very similar to the Alliance arc in BfA. We know what the moral of the story is, not just because it's obvious, but because it's pushed in our faces. The writers just forgot to add any point in the story during which we actually saw the consequences of failing those morals.

It may have worked marginally better if it cut to the nerubian crowd reacting in horror as outsiders try to assassinate their queen, but this doesn't come up and it has no consequences. It's just a springboard for Anduin to tell her she doesn't have to do it all by herself and how he's been through the same and they all love each other and that's what friendship is all about. The entire sequence does remind of the Alliance BFA arc, which is probably the most damning thing that can be said of most anything story-wise. Again, I cut the Alleria part more slack because it's build-up rather than a resolution, unlike Anduin who seems completely fine by the end of it short of not having his powers since the cutscene budget ran out and he needs to get them back in a more marketable moment.

[Sondrelk]

It may have worked marginally better if it cut to the nerubian crowd reacting in horror as outsiders try to assassinate their queen, but this doesn't come up and it has no consequences. It's just a springboard for Anduin to tell her she doesn't have to do it all by herself and how he's been through the same and they all love each other and that's what friendship is all about. The entire sequence does remind of the Alliance BFA arc, which is probably the most damning thing that can be said of most anything story-wise. Again, I cut the Alleria part more slack because it's build-up rather than a resolution, unlike Anduin who seems completely fine by the end of it short of not having his powers since the cutscene budget ran out and he needs to get them back in a more marketable moment.

I suppose the best way to put it concisely is that there feels like there is a bit of Anduin storyline missing. He goes way too quick from "Let's regain my courage" to "Let's all be friends!"
Maybe if we actually found Anduin and did some storylines in Azj'Kahet before finding the Widow and learning a valuable lesson in not judging the giant spider by its mandibles.

In all honesty, I do wonder if that was the original intent, and it got scrapped when they decided the Main Quest in each zone should be as short as possible.

[Super Dickmann]

I suppose the best way to put it concisely is that there feels like there is a bit of Anduin storyline missing. He goes way too quick from "Let's regain my courage" to "Let's all be friends!"
Maybe if we actually found Anduin and did some storylines in Azj'Kahet before finding the Widow and learning a valuable lesson in not judging the giant spider by its mandibles.

In all honesty, I do wonder if that was the original intent, and it got scrapped when they decided the Main Quest in each zone should be as short as possible.

I would give them that benefit of the doubt if the throughline of every single Anduin story is that any part where he might actually make a personal error that leads to something that would be portrayed as a mistake by the narrative happens it gets glossed over and it turns out for the best. Anduin trying to imitate his dad to try and reconnect with the Light but doing it as a pointless charge that doesn't help anyone and just gets him captured, which he can then learn from and go into doing what he's good at - connecting with people is a story. Anduin being detected as being amazing by dint of said pointless charge and becomng the personal confidante of a high state official who was never in any danger and who's capture didn't screw over anyone else, just so he can come back and lecture people about tolerance is not a story.

[Joshuaj]

https://i.imgur.com/XmyZmzd.png

BIG bunch of lore images found by Leviathon on the Scrolls of Lore discord.


Sample, but there's a total of 19 images in the link that go into a good bit of their past and a bit of their culture.

That's cool.

[huth]

There is the failed assassination of the queen I suppose. Though I am still not entirely sure what would have been achieved by waiting. Some better laid plan to assassinate her right after maybe?

In many ways it's very similar to the Alliance arc in BfA. We know what the moral of the story is, not just because it's obvious, but because it's pushed in our faces. The writers just forgot to add any point in the story during which we actually saw the consequences of failing those morals.

The revolution does not have enough momentum yet. While you have the three high-ranking individuals behind it, the general public is supportive or apathetic to Ansurek's machinations; killing her at this juncture is more likely to galvanise support for her plans then allow changes.

Of course, Blizzard failed to emphasise that in any meaningful manner.

[Chickat]

If someone is a child at 17, a lot of people failed them. The Arathi sounds like a militaristic society and Faerin was nobility, she'd be expected to act an adult very early. Yet everyone thought she was a child back then. If not for the "learning again to fight with a sword" quote, I'd expect her to be prebuscent when she stowed away. It wouldn't be notable to call someone who was 16 a soldier in a society like that, it would be normal.

Yeah she was 5-12 when she stowed away for sure. Id guess shes the same age as Anduin plus or minus 2 years.

[Jastall]

I would give them that benefit of the doubt if the throughline of every single Anduin story is that any part where he might actually make a personal error that leads to something that would be portrayed as a mistake by the narrative happens it gets glossed over and it turns out for the best. Anduin trying to imitate his dad to try and reconnect with the Light but doing it as a pointless charge that doesn't help anyone and just gets him captured, which he can then learn from and go into doing what he's good at - connecting with people is a story. Anduin being detected as being amazing by dint of said pointless charge and becomng the personal confidante of a high state official who was never in any danger and who's capture didn't screw over anyone else, just so he can come back and lecture people about tolerance is not a story.

I'm too used to Anduin having his potentially interesting story beats crushed underfoot the moment they appear and threaten to make him something other than a morally impeccable saint who does nothing, so I wasn't surprised in the least when that happened.

It's the same with the whole bit of him kinda enjoying having power over others and harming them while under mind control. It's brought up a couple times but immediately shut down with the whole "but you're such a good guy" routine. As you said, Alleria is cut more slack because there's lots of ground to thread between here and Midnight but so far she's Night Warrior Tyrande 2.0, the peak of cutscene incompetence so that the story can keep being stretched further.

It's annoying that these two mar what is otherwise a solid leveling experience. If you add in the side quests and world building this is easily the best launch package since BfA at least, and the max level campaign is magnitudes less awful than the War Campaign was I'm sure. I'm quite curious to see more of the Arathi, Nerubians, Earthern and even the factions being around. I just wish Alleria and Anduin took a long ass vacation, but that's obviously not going to happen for a while.

[Xilurm]

Everything from the world design, to the main campaign, the side quests, the dialogue between characters oozes quality. It's all so much better than the last few expansions.

If anyone is being a doomer then they're just coping at this point. This is good.

Speaking of world design though. There's so much that they didn't have to do but did anyway. Like the airships in Hallowfall. You can wait for them and they take you around the map and they have stops. It's such a nice attention to detail and worldbuilding even though you have flying mounts available from the start. There's also tons of paths you can take all over the map if you want to reach some place while running on the ground or with a ground mount. It doesn't feel necessary to use a flying mount, which is the way it should be. I did all the zones with a ground mount, did all the side quests and campaign. It was great honestly.

Speaking of side quests, this is the first time I do them all while doing the campaign. They add so much to world building. They also feel vanilla-esque. As in they are no longer in a hub, where you get a few quests, that send you only a few meters away, and then when you're done they just tell you to go to the next hub. No. This time you get side quests which can send you all the way across the map and then back, just like it used to be before Cataclysm made the system way more on-rails.

[Sondrelk]

Might be a small thing. But I really want to point out how good the void themed music is. Telogrus Rift was one of the best tracks in BfA, and the same is true for the track they use in the void themed dungeons in TWW like the Rookery and Stone vault.

[Thomir]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

[Scyth]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

And how is that a bad thing? Or does it rub your masculinity the wrong way?

There's Dagran, Brann, Anduin, Thrall as well as Earthen ones. What more do you want?

[bardicbass616]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

Jfc, how many times a week is this dumb complaint going to be posted? Men have ruled the world irl for thousands of years. Sorry it hurts your testes that in a fantasy game there is more inclusivity since all of the sleazy misogynists got fired.
Oh wait, not sorry.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

3/4 doing all the side quest and there’s really no lack of men in the story it’s just the main questline that there aren’t that many and even then there’s no real lack.

Both dorn and hollow fell has men in almost every quest line, the ringingdethps has more woman only quest line but not by a lot.

[Skytotem]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

Jaina, Alleria, Moira, Faerin... That's 4

Thrall, Anduin, Gazlowe, Dagran, Kurdran, Turalyon... That's 6

Wtf are you talking about?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

So what is the problem? Too many women or not enough men? Which issue do you have contention with, and how will you try to argue that they aren't the same thing?
Just lmao

[blaatschaap]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

This is the speculation thread, not your incel blog

[Cherry123]

There's too many women in the story. Or ... it might be more accurate to say there's not enough men.

Most likely, men lack masculinity. I laugh a lot at the theater of the absurd, when yet another super-brave woman inspires people with a rude speech, and all the men behind her back cry with emotion.

[Alanar]

And how is that a bad thing? Or does it rub your masculinity the wrong way?

Classic! Good one!

[Super Dickmann]

I'm too used to Anduin having his potentially interesting story beats crushed underfoot the moment they appear and threaten to make him something other than a morally impeccable saint who does nothing, so I wasn't surprised in the least when that happened.

It's the same with the whole bit of him kinda enjoying having power over others and harming them while under mind control. It's brought up a couple times but immediately shut down with the whole "but you're such a good guy" routine. As you said, Alleria is cut more slack because there's lots of ground to thread between here and Midnight but so far she's Night Warrior Tyrande 2.0, the peak of cutscene incompetence so that the story can keep being stretched further.

It's annoying that these two mar what is otherwise a solid leveling experience. If you add in the side quests and world building this is easily the best launch package since BfA at least, and the max level campaign is magnitudes less awful than the War Campaign was I'm sure. I'm quite curious to see more of the Arathi, Nerubians, Earthern and even the factions being around. I just wish Alleria and Anduin took a long ass vacation, but that's obviously not going to happen for a while.

You're right on Anduin, of course. What always gets me is how there must be at least someone on the team who gets this and comes up with these ideas, so through any given Anduin story you'll have parts where it looks like they'll go somewhere. Like said leap of faith, or the final Sylvanas conversation in Shadowlands, or hell, that bit with Faerin where she gives him a pep talk about how he was happy not making decisions and how that ties into him making a non-choice by doing the leap of faith. Then it's always back to Our Lord and Master lecturing some other poor berk into adopting the values of love and kindness.

I would say it's better as a launch story package than Dragonflight and better than Legion, by virtue of actually telling a connected story. Shadowlands did more with less and had a better ending in Revendreth. It also gets a lot of points for immediately throwing the entirety of the main cast overboard, but it had its concept scuffed from birth, so there's that. BFA's leveling, if done in the right order and foregoing the war campaign is likely still best of the last years, as Kul Tiras and Zandalar remain some of the best worldbuilding they've done in the last ten odd years.

For what it's worth, if Alleria's plotline does end here and she just returns to the greater hivemind from here on out, which I really doubt, mind, given the telegraphing of Midnight, then it is a worse execution than even the Night Warrior. Tyrande at least beheaded 1 (one) named relevant character, while Alleria's entire rampage was against fodder and was also always to the benefit of the heroes so it being cast as some grim dark path when she keeps teaming up to help you is even more poorly executed than Tyrande being accused of being some warmonger after she meekly goes along with a white peace. The dwarf story was unsurprisingly solid though, no complaints there.