Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Xilurm]

For what it's worth, if Alleria's plotline does end here and she just returns to the greater hivemind from here on out, which I really doubt, mind, given the telegraphing of Midnight, then it is a worse execution than even the Night Warrior. Tyrande at least beheaded 1 (one) named relevant character, while Alleria's entire rampage was against fodder and was also always to the benefit of the heroes so it being cast as some grim dark path when she keeps teaming up to help you is even more poorly executed than Tyrande being accused of being some warmonger after she meekly goes along with a white peace. The dwarf story was unsurprisingly solid though, no complaints there.

Interestingly enough, Tyrande's whole Night Warrior arc felt wasted and pointless. Yes she killed Nathanos. But that could've happened even without those powers. It added nothing because it led to nothing.

Alleria's arc was much better. She was struggling between being alone in the void and wanting to be with her family. In the end she realized that she can just do both. That was a good and well paced arc, while Tyrande didn't learn anything that she couldn't have had even with those powers. That whole plot was building up to something and then nothing happened.

[Super Dickmann]

Interestingly enough, Tyrande's whole Night Warrior arc felt wasted and pointless. Yes she killed Nathanos. But that could've happened even without those powers. It added nothing because it led to nothing.

Alleria's arc was much better. She was struggling between being alone in the void and wanting to be with her family. In the end she realized that she can just do both. That was a good and well paced arc, while Tyrande didn't learn anything that she couldn't have had even with those powers. That whole plot was building up to something and then nothing happened.

Yes, the Tyrande arc is bad and her power-up only allowed her to do something that she could've done anyway, whereas her beliefs became more moderate than they were in Warcraft 3 when she freely shot orcs and humans and casually had most of the Wardens killed because they refused to hand over Illidan, instead agonizing over killing one undead Warden who was unrepentant and had thus far killed scores of her people.

The Alleria arc on the other hand is so far just limp. Her journey has no end point because she never goes at it alone to any meaningful extent, the only times you see her are when you're with other people and when she does go off alone, it's to your benefit - her clearing towers, shooting the Order of Night, freeing you from a cave etc. The only time it's even remotely arguable that she did some bad is shooting Xal at the ceremony and giving away their location, but notwithstanding that no one was hurt as a result, Xal obviously knew they were there anyway as she's shown across the expansion to be able to dig into Alleria's head. The Alleria arc will likely go further than this and it has basically no chance of being even close to as bad as the Tyrande one, but morality-wise it has the same hang-up in having a character presented as being radical and out of control when in reality they do nothing much out of the ordinary.

[Xilurm]

Not sure how to put images in spoilers.

https://i.imgur.com/6UWhCYt.png

When did the army of the dead pass over Azj-Kahet? Does this have something to do with the Kobyss using necromancy?

[micwini]

Not sure how to put images in spoilers.

When did the army of the dead pass over Azj-Kahet?

https://i.imgur.com/6UWhCYt.png

I think its bad wording really. In the next phrase she mentions the reason why they were untouched: Because they were to far away.

[Xilurm]

I think its bad wording really. In the next phrase she mentions the reason why they were untouched: Because they were to far away.

Oh I think then in this cased "passed over" means ignored then?

[micwini]

I think its bad wording really. In the next phrase she mentions the reason why they were untouched: Because they were to far away.

Alternatively, geographically they are a lot closer to each other than the map would made you think, because they are both deep underground.

- - - Updated - - -

Jaina, Alleria, Moira, Faerin... That's 4

Thrall, Anduin, Gazlowe, Dagran, Kurdran, Turalyon... That's 6

Wtf are you talking about?

I mean most men you mentioned don't really do anything. Also: It is very apparent if you have done all the side quests.
Wow has always had plenty of badass women characters, but almost every side story is strong woman character leading or taking over from a dude. The balance is way off.

I think it's best if people do all side quests and stuff before judging. It's also always the same type of character, which is getting stale.
The jewelcrafter woman was actually a breath of fresh air in all of this. Great questline.
And it is still quite often 'man bad -> must be replaced by woman'.

Variety is king, which is what they're failing at right now.

I'd also like to see Anduin get some pushback in the sense that his desire to do good and help might not always work and yield the opposite result instead.


I think the biggest issue here is lack of variety and bad writing.

[huth]

Oh I think then in this cased "passed over" means ignored then?

Think job promotions. The person passed over did not get it.

So yeah, passed over means "skipped, ignored" in this context.

[Kathranis]

There's not enough Goblin antagonists to fit an entire patch around and you have to connect them with the Void otherwise it's just random as fuck which makes zero sense.
"The Harbinger of the Void is causing absolute hell on, the world tree is converting to the void, but fuck it that Gallywix is a fucking pain in the arse"

Because the tree is not part of a new zone the most likely outcome is The void corrupted tree being the raid aka the Rootlands, with the Goblins having their own zone and mega 5 man dungeon, basically another Mechagon.

I don't know if it'd be a full patch dedicated entirely to Undermine, but didn't the goblins forge the Demon Soul for Deathwing? They could actually hold the secrets behind the origins of the Dark Heart.

[Cherry123]

You know, if Anduin had stayed on the throne, we might have gotten a nice story about Alleria and Turalyon journey. Why is Anduin there? It's as stupid as if we had Garrosh and Murlocs journey. Or are they afraid that Turalyon masculinity will overshadow Alleria? So they paired her with this emotional pit?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean most men you mentioned don't really do anything. Also: It is very apparent if you have done all the side quests.
Wow has always had plenty of badass women characters, but almost every side story is strong woman character leading or taking over from a dude. The balance is way off.

Let’s look at hallowfall.

What Grows in the Dark, male lead.

The last mage, male lead.

The Priory, first half male second half female.

Crushing Depths, fish lead.

Striking Steel, female lead.

An Orphan's Dilemma, female lead.

Fishing is Good for the Soul, male lead.

Lost in the Darkness, female lead.

Bringing Light to Velhan's Claim, male lead.

Might have missed a quest line or two with the wiki not having info on them all but out of the 9 side quest lines I knew to check 4 are male lead, 4 are female lead or have a female take over like the priory, and one is a fish.

The balance is pretty even for hallowfall atleast.

[Teriz]

I don't know if it'd be a full patch dedicated entirely to Undermine, but didn't the goblins forge the Demon Soul for Deathwing? They could actually hold the secrets behind the origins of the Dark Heart.

TBF, Gazlowe and Thrall have yet to be featured prominently in this expansion, yet they're considered major characters due to the short stories.

An Undermine patch would facilitate their presence.

[micwini]

Let’s look at hallowfall.

What Grows in the Dark, male lead.

The last mage, male lead.

The Priory, first half male second half female.

Crushing Depths, fish lead.

Striking Steel, female lead.

An Orphan's Dilemma, female lead.

Fishing is Good for the Soul, male lead.

Lost in the Darkness, female lead.

Bringing Light to Velhan's Claim, male lead.

Might have missed a quest line or two with the wiki not having info on them all but out of the 9 side quest lines I knew to check 4 are male lead, 4 are female lead or have a female take over like the priory, and one is a fish.

The balance is pretty even for hallowfall atleast.

What Grows in the Dark, male lead. -> was the last escapee -> cowardice

The last mage, male lead. -> Dies through incompetence

The Priory, first half male second half female. -> Male turns bad guy

Crushing Depths, fish lead. -> Fish (GREAT questline)

Striking Steel, female lead. -> 2 female leads actually one being general. They also need to mention multiple times both their male partners died. Can't have them alive ofc.

An Orphan's Dilemma, female lead.-> yes

Fishing is Good for the Soul, male lead. ->Yes. It's like 3 quests tho

Lost in the Darkness, female lead. -> Yes, but also very short questline tho.

Bringing Light to Velhan's Claim, male lead. -> male redeeming incompetent behavior. Although questline is quite good

We also have memories in the sky which is also a female lead (just some fetch quest tho)

And there is the dude on the farm with a love letter -> male, but reversed gender roles.


Like I said. The gender distribution is not the problem, it is that everything ends up the same. It's all 'men weak/bad, women strong/good'.
It's very samey, just like DF where every sidequest love couple was gay for some reason.

It's stupid to lay awake about it at night. However, some critique is heavily warranted when all questlines have this same underlying trend.


Also going to stop here. You're a reasonable chap, but a lot of others aren't when it comes to these topics.

- - - Updated - - -

TBF, Gazlowe and Thrall have yet to be featured prominently in this expansion, yet they're considered major characters due to the short stories.

An Undermine patch would facilitate their presence.

I think undermine is guaranteed almost. Lots of new assets for goblins and also the EZ-mine node is a dead giveaway.

[Sondrelk]

Let’s look at hallowfall.

What Grows in the Dark, male lead.

The last mage, male lead.

The Priory, first half male second half female.

Crushing Depths, fish lead.

Striking Steel, female lead.

An Orphan's Dilemma, female lead.

Fishing is Good for the Soul, male lead.

Lost in the Darkness, female lead.

Bringing Light to Velhan's Claim, male lead.

Might have missed a quest line or two with the wiki not having info on them all but out of the 9 side quest lines I knew to check 4 are male lead, 4 are female lead or have a female take over like the priory, and one is a fish.

The balance is pretty even for hallowfall atleast.

I would just ignore the people saying this. Even if every single character swapped gender they would still complain about having to follow female Anduin, or listening to annoyingly quirky female Dagran. Pointing out how absurd it is that the leader of the Earthen is a female, and how two of the three main NPCs in Azj'Kahet is female.

[Nymrohd]

I mean you also get plenty of less than competent or corrupt female characters. From Ansurek herself who very much seems irredeemable to Steelstrike who prioritizes protocol over saving lives, is the Lawful Neutral foil to Faerin's Neutral Good, then is consistently the one lacking faith where Faerin has it.

Meanwhile the most heroic person so far was Baelgrim.

For me the question is if they get a decent arc. Faerin is getting one but the VA could be better. Baelgrim had a solid arc. Adelgonn doesn't have any arc while Merrix does a much better job at telling the same story. Brinthe has a solidly constructed story while Lufsela, well I've made my opinion there known. Steelstrike is more of a foil to Faerin than a proper character on her own while the nerubians are all decently done imo.

As for existing characters, I can't say Anduin's arc has had any emotional impact for me and I am more likely to facepalm over Alleria's lack of any sense than sympathize with her. Never liked Magni. Moira was OK and Dagran has been a solid hit for me (I'd have preferred to do the delves with Dagran tbh)

[Xilurm]

I don't care because the writing is good. Faerin isn't annoying like Taelia and is actually a decent character. I like her VA too. Didn't think she'd sound like that after seeing her in the CGI trailer.

[micwini]

I mean you also get plenty of less than competent or corrupt female characters. From Ansurek herself who very much seems irredeemable to Steelstrike who prioritizes protocol over saving lives, is the Lawful Neutral foil to Faerin's Neutral Good, then is consistently the one lacking faith where Faerin has it.

Meanwhile the most heroic person so far was Baelgrim.

For me the question is if they get a decent arc. Faerin is getting one but the VA could be better. Baelgrim had a solid arc. Adelgonn doesn't have any arc while Merrix does a much better job at telling the same story. Brinthe has a solidly constructed story while Lufsela, well I've made my opinion there known. Steelstrike is more of a foil to Faerin than a proper character on her own while the nerubians are all decently done imo.

As for existing characters, I can't say Anduin's arc has had any emotional impact for me and I am more likely to facepalm over Alleria's lack of any sense than sympathize with her. Never liked Magni. Moira was OK and Dagran has been a solid hit for me (I'd have preferred to do the delves with Dagran tbh)

Baelgrim was great. It was easily predictable that he wouldn't lsurvive tho, because it was a cool male character.
That's the biggest issue. Because everything is written in the same way, it gets really predictable who lives or dies.
The only surprise during questing was the JC lady dying.

[Raetary]

It's nice that the team is being creative, but i don't think i'll ever step a single toe into the Dawnbreaker dungeon on mythic and above.
Most disorienting experience i've ever had in the game.

A shame really, as i really love every other dungeon.

[Nightshade711]

I don't care because the writing is good. Faerin isn't annoying like Taelia and is actually a decent character. I like her VA too. Didn't think she'd sound like that after seeing her in the CGI trailer.

Same tbh, I was expecting her to sound a bit more rough/battle hardened if that makes sense.

[Skytotem]

Alternatively, geographically they are a lot closer to each other than the map would made you think, because they are both deep underground.

- - - Updated - - -



I mean most men you mentioned don't really do anything. Also: It is very apparent if you have done all the side quests.
Wow has always had plenty of badass women characters, but almost every side story is strong woman character leading or taking over from a dude. The balance is way off.

I think it's best if people do all side quests and stuff before judging. It's also always the same type of character, which is getting stale.
The jewelcrafter woman was actually a breath of fresh air in all of this. Great questline.
And it is still quite often 'man bad -> must be replaced by woman'.

Variety is king, which is what they're failing at right now.

I'd also like to see Anduin get some pushback in the sense that his desire to do good and help might not always work and yield the opposite result instead.


I think the biggest issue here is lack of variety and bad writing.

Nonsense. i left out magni and jaina leaves early on too

This is just the same phenomena where when there's an equal number of men and women in a room, men perceive there to be way more women than there are.

[Xilurm]

I wonder if they'll create some kind of harbor at the isle of Dorn that takes you to SW and Orgrimmar. Maybe Kul Tiras for Alliance?

There's so many details in the world that they didn't need to add. Like the airships in Hallowfall that take you all over the zone and have stops in each hub. Or the little webbed boats you can take in the city of threads that take you up if you're down on the ground.

And all this even though we have a flying mount available from the get go.