Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

Ummm, this character power is here to stay for three expansions AT LEAST. And even if they take away Hero Talents after WSS is done, I really doubt they will also take away all of these cool visuals people got used to.

And a lot of SL stuff got carried over to DF, anyway.

sigh. I mean, waht if someone doesn't like to play dark ranger, because of the visuals, but it is far stronger power wise. Same issue as with covenants.
Most classes did it better where it focused on a niche of the class.
For example shaman you can have a focus on totems, ancestors or spells, but this is just so far off the hunter fantasy that it would suck if this was the best if you were a night elf player for example.

[Makorus]

sigh. I mean, waht if someone doesn't like to play dark ranger, because of the visuals, but it is far stronger power wise. Same issue as with covenants.
Most classes did it better where it focused on a niche of the class.
For example shaman you can have a focus on totems, ancestors or spells, but this is just so far off the hunter fantasy that it would suck if this was the best if you were a night elf player for example.

You could make the same arguments about normal talents.

The problem with Covenants was that you couldn't just switch.

[Al Gorefiend]

You will have Gazlowe on the heroic goblin side. The Venture Co. are not being villain batted, they have always been villains.

This is true but they are also not -strictly- Goblins which we both know so I don't really consider them as Villianous goblins, just pirates. But not like the yarrr kind like the poachers kind.

[BB8]

We had a nice underwater Delve, the Abyss.
I know I saw many dont like underwater, but for me its magic.
Dont mind to created a semi-underwater zone, maybe west of Harrowfall or perhaps in a cavern system somewhere below.

[Makabreska]

sigh. I mean, waht if someone doesn't like to play dark ranger, because of the visuals, but it is far stronger power wise. Same issue as with covenants.
Most classes did it better where it focused on a niche of the class.
For example shaman you can have a focus on totems, ancestors or spells, but this is just so far off the hunter fantasy that it would suck if this was the best if you were a night elf player for example.

Since the start of WoW, peeps were "forced" to play certain playstyles, even when they might not like it. I think they will be able to stomach some extra visuals that will soon be drowned in boss/other player abilities.

[micwini]

Since the start of WoW, peeps were "forced" to play certain playstyles, even when they might not like it. I think they will be able to stomach some extra visuals that will soon be drowned in boss/other player abilities.

I don't get why people were complaining en masse about it in SL and now it is 'just stomach it' lol.
I don't even play hunter, just found it interesting that they went with the visuals tied to character power again. Another example is mage. What if you like frostfire, but you have to pick phoenix because it is 50% better?

[Cheezits]

I don't get why people were complaining en masse about it in SL and now it is 'just stomach it' lol.
I don't even play hunter, just found it interesting that they went with the visuals tied to character power again. Another example is mage. What if you like frostfire, but you have to pick phoenix because it is 50% better?

It's still a problem, but the reason it isn't hated as much as covenants is because:

A) It doesn't impact your main story, your main zone, your main campaign and your transmog rewards like Shadowlands.
B) Only a select few classes have a huge "thematic lock" problem, mainly Hunter and some Mage. And hunter is so massively played by casuals that there isn't enough negative feedback.

[Hitei]

I don't get why people were complaining en masse about it in SL and now it is 'just stomach it' lol.
I don't even play hunter, just found it interesting that they went with the visuals tied to character power again. Another example is mage. What if you like frostfire, but you have to pick phoenix because it is 50% better?

I don't get why people were complaining en masse about it in SL, full stop.

"Hey, for 15 years I've been forced to pick a class with an entire kit of abilities and visuals, numerous tier sets and armor/weapon types, all of which are directly linked to the power and potentially the right or wrong choice for optimal output... but for some reason this one new ability, couple armor sets and couple mounts being tied to power is the end of all things!"

[OCoyne]

I genuinely believe we're getting a Return to Draenor expansion after the Worldsoul saga that adds playable Ogres and possibly Arrakoa. Plus deals with the Y'rel thread.

Wild speculation at this point so take anything with a pinch of salt.
We've had Death, we've currently got Void, we'll probably get Chaos re-entering in TLT regarding Sargeras, if anything major like a World Soul does die then it'll affect the Arbiter allowing Death to re-enter and we still have all the major Dreadlords + Denathrius still alive, there are only 2 permanently perished, Balnazaar in the Paladin Legion Campaign and Varimathras in Argus, more than likely hiding on their home planet Nathreza, so that's my guess.

[Makabreska]

I don't get why people were complaining en masse about it in SL and now it is 'just stomach it' lol.
I don't even play hunter, just found it interesting that they went with the visuals tied to character power again. Another example is mage. What if you like frostfire, but you have to pick phoenix because it is 50% better?

Again, this problem has been since the start. "I prefer a 1h weapon swinging, big hits, slower pace Arms playstyle, but Fury is 50% better!"

And Covenants main complaint was about no being able to switch them on the fly. Like, it was such a shitstorm back then with "pull the ripcord" slogan, why did we already forget about it?

[micwini]

Again, this problem has been since the start. "I prefer a 1h weapon swinging, big hits, slower pace Arms playstyle, but Fury is 50% better!"

And Covenants main complaint was about no being able to switch them on the fly. Like, it was such a shitstorm back then with "pull the ripcord" slogan, why did we already forget about it?

That was a big part too, but the visuals tied to player power was the close second.
If someone picks hunter, they pick shooting arrows. Then they pick their spec. Beasts, melee, marksman. Then comes a random 180 with dark ranger.
They should have actually combined specs a bit like they did with other hero talents.

We're still in the honeymoon period, but mark my words: We're going to see this complaint about tying visuals to player power more often eventually.
Some classes executed hero talents well. Paladin ones feel and look like paladin. no weird purple vindicator stuff for example.

Dark ranger does not look like hunter. They could have gone for the explosives vs special arrow angle, but for some reason they went with this.

[Dracullus]

I don't get why people were complaining en masse about it in SL and now it is 'just stomach it' lol.
I don't even play hunter, just found it interesting that they went with the visuals tied to character power again. Another example is mage. What if you like frostfire, but you have to pick phoenix because it is 50% better?

How "I like Frostfire visuals but Phoenix has better numbers" different from "I like Fire visuals but Frost has better numbers"? What can I say, if you are slave to meta, you can turn this game into a nightmare.

And I understand that progressing content requires best talents, but you can switch setup between talents/spec you like most and talents/spec that you have to play for progression.

Covenant at start had different issue - switching was long process with multiple layers (covenant, conduits). It is massive difference between "I have to do long fill the bar quest everytime I change setup" and "I can do it with single click".

[Makabreska]

We're still in the honeymoon period, but mark my words: We're going to see this complaint about tying visuals to player power more often eventually.
Some classes executed hero talents well. Paladin ones feel and look like paladin. no weird purple vindicator stuff for example.

Dark ranger does not look like hunter. They could have gone for the explosives vs special arrow angle, but for some reason they went with this.

We will have plenty of talents reworks throughout TWW, because it is obvious some of them are not finished.

And a clearly Sylvanas inspired, shadow arrows shooting range spec does not look like hunter? They had access to Black Arrow for many expansion. For years people were asking for a Dark Ranger skin for hunter each time a class skin idea came up, so not sure how it can not look like a hunter.

[micwini]

We will have plenty of talents reworks throughout TWW, because it is obvious some of them are not finished.

A shadow arrows shooting range spec does not look like hunter? They got access to Black Arrow for many expansion. And for years people were asking for a Dark Ranger skin each time a class skin idea came up. So it was an obvious and perfect choice for a Hero Talent Tree.

How does combining MM and BM lead to a dark ranger? idk, doesnt make sense. And there is a difference between 1 ability and the entire kit being shadow oriented.

- - - Updated - - -

How "I like Frostfire visuals but Phoenix has better numbers" different from "I like Fire visuals but Frost has better numbers"? What can I say, if you are slave to meta, you can turn this game into a nightmare.

And I understand that progressing content requires best talents, but you can switch setup between talents/spec you like most and talents/spec that you have to play for progression.

Covenant at start had different issue - switching was long process with multiple layers (covenant, conduits). It is massive difference between "I have to do long fill the bar quest everytime I change setup" and "I can do it with single click".

Same could be said for covenants. Specs at most have a 5% difference, who cares. Some hero specs are a complete troll in some content. Talk 30-50% diffs. That is the difference. Same as covenants. They're not going to be able to tune this right.

As I said. It is still early. Expect to see complaints about this down the line.

[Makabreska]

How does combining MM and BM lead to a dark ranger? idk, doesnt make sense. And there is a difference between 1 ability and the entire kit being shadow oriented.

It does not have to lead to it. This is not a case of Frostfire, Hero Talents in general are not the sum of it's parts, but an addition to their kits.

And again, peeps were asking for Dark ranger for hunter, and Dark Rangers use shadow magic on top of their hunter abilities. Where is an issue in that?

[micwini]

It does not have to lead to it. This is not a case of Frostfire, Hero Talents in general are not the sum of it's parts, but an addition to their kits.

And again, peeps were asking for Dark ranger for hunter, and Dark Rangers use shadow magic on top of their hunter abilities. Where is an issue in that?

Like I said, the issue is that it doesn't look like hunter. Class skin? Alright, but forcing people into this ugly shit sucks. At least for mage it still feels like mage by combining their specs. Pack leader is a better example of how to do it, altho you'd expect to see an actual PACK of beasts instead of some passives.

The owl/night elf theme is equally as weird. Hunter hero talent visuals/themes are just a big fail.
Also no one ever asked for dark ranger FOR HUNTER.

People asked for a separate class.

[Samin]

The quote from the book.

The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the five evil gods far beneath the surface of the world. Without the Old Gods' power to keep their raging spirits bound to the physical world, the elementals were banished to an abyssal plane, where they would contend with one another for all eternity. With the elementals' departure, nature calmed, and the world settled into a peaceful harmony. The Titans saw that the threat was contained and set to work.

<A note has been scribbled on the page.>
Fools! The power of the elements was not so easily contained. Nor could they bind the influence of the Old Gods. The "peace" the titans offered came only through oppression.

It should be noted that the text (minus the annotations) is actually from Legion and while Chronicle was out by then, one could still assume the ingame book was written without considering the real life book (because of production times on both).

It's about the annotation not pointing out the "incorrect" number of Old Gods, presumably because the author of the notes knows that this numbers is in fact correct, implying that the information in Chronicle is incorrect.

This is definitely not 100% proof. We don't know who wrote these annotations, they might just have been a Black Empire fan who regurgitated their propaganda against Titan propaganda without actually having any intimate knowledge of the Black Empire. But it's definitely not contradicting the existence of a 5th Old God, when it definitly could if it wanted to. If they wanted to clarify that there were only 4 Old Gods - this book and the annotations "making fun" of Titan bullshit, would have been the perfect opportunity.

[Makabreska]

The owl/night elf theme is equally as weird. Hunter hero talent visuals/themes are just a big fail.
Also no one ever asked for dark ranger FOR HUNTER.

People asked for a separate class.

And they are not getting them. Peeps ask for many things, but lots of it is unachievable. Hero Talents is the next best thing.

Sentinels are traditional nelf units and nelfs have strong connection to owls as a hunting companions, as shown by Tyrande in W3. Dark Rangers are basically dark, shadow magic using hunters, as shown by Sylvanas since W3. All of these fantasies fit perfectly.

[Raetary]

The problem with covenants was that they heavily restricted collectible cosmetics, not the less than a handful of spell effects you got from them.

And as for the spell effects.
The game always had an issue with representing visuals themes through them.

And hero talents cement that even further, which is something people have pointed out since they got announced.
Hunters in particular are a thematic nightmare if you aren't playing a Forsaken, an elf or an undead elf.

"This has always been a thing" isn't really an argument when that's actually a shortcoming on Blizzards/the games part.
It's the reason why people have been begging for class skins to beginn with, as those would be purely cosmetic and an optional way Blizzard could've implemented class archetypes without forcing people into a gameplay choice.

[Alanar]

sigh. I mean, waht if someone doesn't like to play dark ranger, because of the visuals, but it is far stronger power wise. Same issue as with covenants.
Most classes did it better where it focused on a niche of the class.
For example shaman you can have a focus on totems, ancestors or spells, but this is just so far off the hunter fantasy that it would suck if this was the best if you were a night elf player for example.

Sadly it happens all the time.

Legion pigeonholded many specs into what ever, with weapons and themes. Shadow priest into pure void priest with a dagger and no longer a staff. There was no choice.