Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

I hope the Kaheti remain relevant in the next patches. The Earthen and the Arathi are bound to remain important and I don't think the kobolds from the Ringing depths need more attention but I could see the Kaheti story be considered resolved and them just fading into the background.

I think 11.0.7 will have content in spider city with easy catch up gear (and we will start investigating roots area in Azj'Kahet), but that will be final major Nerubian content until Last Titan.

[allegrian]

Personally, I'm more than satisfied with Ansurek, as I see her entire purpose as a vessel to explore Xal (and generally possible future plot points, like the black blood and Ethereal stuff). I agree that she's one of the weaker base expansion end bosses though. She wasn't completely shallow, but I also didn't expect huge deep character exploration for her, considering she was destined to be irrelevant (because we kill her in the first raid).

I consider the Kaheti as a whole much more important and interesting, not just as subjects and victims of Ansurek but as a society on it's own. Although I would say I'm worried they end up as a once-and-done thing maybe outside of a cameo in TLT.

I disagree on 0 buildup. Yes, we don't have the obvious cliffhanger for what's next, but saying that's 0 buildup is ignoring all the other storytelling happening even just in the campaign.

It sucks that the local stories didn't hit it off for you. For me, I actually felt the most 'meh' with the local stories in Hallowfall (not saying there weren't a couple great ones). I think the lore and implications are interesting, but the story felt the most bland or maybe just "well-treaded ground", compared to the exploration of the Earthen and Kaheti societies.

The worldbuilding and side story is good, my main criticism is the main story, which feels aimless/random. The individual stories and character moments like the anduin ones are good. But TWW just feels like a worldbuilding expansion where we just happen to be there.

The main story is about hearing the world soul tell us to go to Kaz Algar. Why? Dunno, blizzard themselves might not even know. Then we get attacked by xal and we go after her. Why? Dunno. Xal herself is just staring at the camera and doesn't have a clear objective and purpose, she just corrupts races. Esrthen and Arathi feel disconnected as if they were from different expansions and they had to decide which one to use as the main hub, and the main threat, the nerubians, are hastily defeated with a final boss that has less story presence than the ringing deeps one.

The main story in each zone is rushed. They try to fit too many stories into an expansions and then rushing each one of them. If there was a single story thread through all the zones, it wouldn't matter that much. But you get rushed unbound earthen, rushed evil machine speaker, rushed evil shadow cult and then rushed nerubian queen.

[Sondrelk]

The worldbuilding and side story is good, my main criticism is the main story, which feels aimless/random. The individual stories and character moments like the anduin ones are good. But TWW just feels like a worldbuilding expansion where we just happen to be there.

The main story is about hearing the world soul tell us to go to Kaz Algar. Why? Dunno, blizzard themselves might not even know. Then we get attacked by xal and we go after her. Why? Dunno. Xal herself is just staring at the camera and doesn't have a clear objective and purpose, she just corrupts races. Esrthen and Arathi feel disconnected as if they were from different expansions and they had to decide which one to use as the main hub, and the main threat, the nerubians, are hastily defeated with a final boss that has less story presence than the ringing deeps one.

The main story in each zone is rushed. They try to fit too many stories into an expansions and then rushing each one of them. If there was a single story thread through all the zones, it wouldn't matter that much. But you get rushed unbound earthen, rushed evil machine speaker, rushed evil shadow cult and then rushed nerubian queen.

It seems confusing because the story isn't properly emphasizing the Radiant Song stuff.

We go to Khaz Algar because that is where Magni was told to go by Azeroth. Is that because Azeroth told him, or the Heart chamber did? That is yet to be discovered, but we can surmise that the reason we are in Khaz Algar is partially due to Beledar, and partially due to the Chamber of Memories underneath Dornogal.

There are several red herrings i think. The Nerubians seem like an important element seeing as Xal'atath allied with them. But I think what is actually important is Beledar. And who she allied with is meaningless. The Nerubians were just conveniently close by.


I agree on the whole thing with the Earthen and Arathi though. Both could have just as easily been the main friendly faction in the expansion and nothing would have really changed. The Arathi could have been the ones who helps us when we get to the Isle of Dorn, just as the Earthen could have been the ones to introduce us to Beledar.

[Al Gorefiend]

Evokers showed Blizz people don't mind playing something with limited transmog options.

Give us Naga without leg and boot transmogs. Do not create new lore to justify giving them a visage form. All fish all the time.

[bruxx]

Evokers showed Blizz people don't mind playing something with limited transmog options.

Give us Naga without leg and boot transmogs. Do not create new lore to justify giving them a visage form. All fish all the time.

It's going to hurt some dark place deep within my ego when forum threads start popping from people asking blizzard to "please let us just fight in elf form!"

[Sondrelk]

Evokers showed Blizz people don't mind playing something with limited transmog options.

Give us Naga without leg and boot transmogs. Do not create new lore to justify giving them a visage form. All fish all the time.

As much as I somewhat agree. I really don't think the developers are willing to bank on the feeling of "This part of the game is really shitty and everyone hates it. I bet that means they won't mind a second instance of it."

And sure, Naga are marginally better in that the only thing that is truly impossible are boots and anything beyond really ugly leg textures stretched over their tails. But what Blizzard really should do is focus on making it so that people play Dracthyr because they want to play Dracthyr, not because they want different racials on their female humans or male Belves.

[Al Gorefiend]

As much as I somewhat agree. I really don't think the developers are willing to bank on the feeling of "This part of the game is really shitty and everyone hates it. I bet that means they won't mind a second instance of it."

And sure, Naga are marginally better in that the only thing that is truly impossible are boots and anything beyond really ugly leg textures stretched over their tails. But what Blizzard really should do is focus on making it so that people play Dracthyr because they want to play Dracthyr, not because they want different racials on their female humans or male Belves.

Naga would be infinitely better because people like Naga. Drac'thyr instantly polarized at reveal.

[Scyth]

Evokers showed Blizz people don't mind playing something with limited transmog options.

Give us Naga without leg and boot transmogs. Do not create new lore to justify giving them a visage form. All fish all the time.

Hmm I'm not sure I fully agree. Go check the official forums about people wanting to fight in Visage or wanting transmog whilst in Dragon form.

Will be the same with Nagas, forums will be overwhelmed with people wanting to see their transmogs imo

[micwini]

Evokers showed Blizz people don't mind playing something with limited transmog options.

Give us Naga without leg and boot transmogs. Do not create new lore to justify giving them a visage form. All fish all the time.

There are complaints on the limits of transmog on dracthyr every single day.

[Khaza-R]

I don't think transmog limitations are a hinderance to Naga. They could do helms, shoulders, chest and gloves. And that's like 95% of the aesthetics of most mogs anyway. I think animations have alway been what's holding them back. But seeing how fluid the newer models in TWW are, I don't even think this is true anymore.

That said, I think Ethereals are the more likely AR for Midnight. If there is one.

[SilverLion]

Naga would be infinitely better because people like Naga. Drac'thyr instantly polarized at reveal.

Some people like Naga. Personally I think they're lame. Can't use internet forums are a measure.

[Eurhetemec]

Naga would be infinitely better because people like Naga. Drac'thyr instantly polarized at reveal.

Pretty much all races are popular either:

A) Because of how closely they look like humans, particularly conventionally attractive humans.

or

B) They have good racials.

or less commonly

C) Because they've got a cool aesthetic of their own - but that won't even get you to 10% of the population now (much higher when WoW launched).

You can see that here - it's not perfect data, and it's from four years ago, but it certainly reflects what we still see in the game today: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...n-infographic/

Dracthyr caused issues because to be an Evoker you had to be a Dracthyr and vice-versa. And you couldn't stay in Visage form whilst using Evoker abilities. Thus people who wanted to play the new class had to play Dracthyr, no matter how much they hated it. If they hadn't had to, people would have had a lot less negative to say re: Dracthyr.

Naga would undoubtedly be just an Allied Race, and would not look much like conventionally attractive humans, because even with a "pretty" redesign, they look like fishy beings, with the females having human/elf-like faces/torsos, and the males having reptilian faces. So as much as a lot of people would be excited to unlock them, I question how many people would actually play them. Even in 2020, when Void Elves hadn't even been out two years, they were already the third-most-popular Alliance race, and are probably a larger subsection by now (despite having pretty "meh" racials outside of skilled PvP).

So Naga would need absolutely stellar racials - something no Allied Race has ever received, though Dracthyr (not technically an Allied Race) seem likely to end up with, in order to be much more than a fun thing to unlock then not play.

Dracthyr, on the other hand, are like to shoot up to a significant fraction of both Alliance and Horde populations over the six-twelve months post 11.0.5, because they can permanently look like fancy female humans or fancy blood elf males.

It's going to hurt some dark place deep within my ego when forum threads start popping from people asking blizzard to "please let us just fight in elf form!"

I 100% feel you, but if Naga being a "successful" - as in long-term popular - race in WoW, was a goal to you, the easiest way to achieve it would be to give them an equivalent of Visage form that they could stay in permanently, which inevitably would be a Elf (probably NE-based, but done better than Nightborne), with like, mild Naga features (i.e. optional scales, fins, greenish hue, etc.). I'm not saying that should happen, but it's the way that would keep them popular.

[Nymrohd]

I will say, Azj'kahet was solid but there is clearly failed gameplay there and it has to do mostly with flying. There are multiple items to help you deal with guards catching you but given you can just fly in and out with impunity and that no world quest so far really forces you to deal with the guards' detection (no escort quest, low guard density) they never really come into play which is wasted design time. I get that it is good that it is not identical to Suramar but on the other hand I personally enjoyed the Suramar gameplay and would have liked it back in some form.

Also, I hope they resolve whatever bug has caused delves to be stuck in the same Story all week.

[Darkarath]

I will say, Azj'kahet was solid but there is clearly failed gameplay there and it has to do mostly with flying. There are multiple items to help you deal with guards catching you but given you can just fly in and out with impunity and that no world quest so far really forces you to deal with the guards' detection (no escort quest, low guard density) they never really come into play which is wasted design time. I get that it is good that it is not identical to Suramar but on the other hand I personally enjoyed the Suramar gameplay and would have liked it back in some form.

Also, I hope they resolve whatever bug has caused delves to be stuck in the same Story all week.

I love Azj'kahet aesthetics. It is a really cool zone. I understand your point about the guards, but I remember that in Suramar they were kind of annoying.

I am currently playing a little more with Delves. Managed to do a level 8 with a friend, both of us undergeared a bit, but it was not difficult. I am certainly liking the system and I feel that it will be incredibly good for WoW's future. I have little doubt that they will be more important than dungeons in time for the general playerbase. I cannot wait to see how they evolve them, they have so much potential.

[Nymrohd]

I am currently playing a little more with Delves. Managed to do a level 8 with a friend, both of us undergeared a bit, but it was not difficult. I am certainly liking the system and I feel that it will be incredibly good for WoW's future. I have little doubt that they will be more important than dungeons in time for the general playerbase. I cannot wait to see how they evolve them, they have so much potential.

I think #1change delves need, they shouldn't all be caves. Anything a dungeon or raid can be, a delve can be as well.
And if they are going to be lazy with the followers for follower dungeons then use delves instead to tell the story. I am just hoping the reason they were lazy with the followers in everything after the Rookery is that they are working on getting your Warband be your dungeon/story raid followers instead which probably is much more complex (I mean it would take what, 78 different AI profiles to cover all specs/hero talents?) .

[Raetary]

I think #1change delves need, they shouldn't all be caves. Anything a dungeon or raid can be, a delve can be as well.

Tbf, not all of them are caves.

The Underkeep is set inside Azj'kahet.
The Waterworks are set inside a Dam.
The Skittering Breach is a Nerubian Stronghold.
Same as the Spiral Weave.

Of course, they are all underground.
But so is everything else outside of the Isle of Dorne.

[Darkarath]

I think #1change delves need, they shouldn't all be caves. Anything a dungeon or raid can be, a delve can be as well.
And if they are going to be lazy with the followers for follower dungeons then use delves instead to tell the story. I am just hoping the reason they were lazy with the followers in everything after the Rookery is that they are working on getting your Warband be your dungeon/story raid followers instead which probably is much more complex (I mean it would take what, 78 different AI profiles to cover all specs/hero talents?) .

We are in an underground expansion so of course most of Delves are underground. But this will change in future expansions or patches. Also followers dungeon with our alts is coming, Ion was pretty clear about it. It is just a matter of time. Hopefully they will eventually allow us to make Delves with them too.

[Tanaria]

I believe @Tanaria was campaiging for this to be a thing for midnight. Its not a bad idea. It should be horde exclusive tho.

I was, but not as an allied race though.

I believe Felblood Elf features should be just the same as Eredar features for Draenei.

Perhaps a Sin'dorei Demon Hunter-led questline where we go to the Throne of Kil'jaedon and recruit the Felblood Elves scattered around that area. Perhaps, an advancement on seeing more of Outland, disintegrate into the Twisting Nether

[Nymrohd]

We are in an underground expansion so of course most of Delves are underground. But this will change in future expansions or patches. Also followers dungeon with our alts is coming, Ion was pretty clear about it. It is just a matter of time. Hopefully they will eventually allow us to make Delves with them too.

I don't see how delves with followers would work given how big a deal leveling your companion is.

[Darkarath]

I don't see how delves with followers would work given how big a deal leveling your companion is.

Same as now. No matter how many players are doing the Delves, the companion is still there.