Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

As clockwork, next patch 2 months after launch. Probably 10.0.7 will be first to break this rule since DF launch, but of course no one sane expect patch so close to Christmas.

[huth]

Apart from more examples from you knowing nothing about the game's story/lore... this is really the only fair point you have. Of course we'll have antagonistic Arathi in the future as it's part of Blizzard's typical formula.

We already have/had two groups and they're not exactly coy about stating that the Empire likely wouldn't be anywhere near as happy to deal with us as the expedition, which doesn't have the liberty of refusing help.

So yeah, that's pretty much guaranteed. But at the same time, we have little reason to doubt the bulk of the expedition. They're just happy to have anybody at all who isn't immediately pointing a sword or other sharp implement at them and still in a precarious enough position that they can't really afford starting trouble with us.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Sure and I'm 21 and your girlfriend who goes to college in Canada, that's why people haven't met her!

You've got to be joking. You seriously can't tell me you think it's unfathomable that people can genuinely find some elements of cultural anachronism tolerable in fantasy and others unpalatable. Is it actually that impossible to believe that someone can dislike the direction of modern WoW without being a jaded forty-something?

I grew up playing both Warcraft III and WoW, the former more often because my parents were skeptical of giving me unrestricted access to an MMO as a child. I played both and, looking back on both WoW in the days of my childhood and Warcraft III, I find myself ultimately having to prefer Warcraft III's take on the lore, setting, and aesthetic as something more coherent and interesting. Not every belief that differs from your own is determined by nostalgia; people can genuinely, impartially analyze two pieces of media and come to prefer one over the other. If anything, it likely speaks to some immense weakness of your position if you can't assert it without resorting to tacky armchair psychology and subsequent denial when said armchair psychology hits a single challenging datum.

[Merryck]

I hate goblins.

[Eurhetemec]

You've got to be joking. You seriously can't tell me you think it's unfathomable that people can genuinely find some elements of cultural anachronism tolerable in fantasy and others unpalatable. Is it actually that impossible to believe that someone can dislike the direction of modern WoW without being a jaded forty-something?

No, I'm saying your specific complaints and mannerisms are completely implausible as those of a 22-year-old. You'd be the WoW equivalent of Jacob Rees-Mogg if they're real. I.e. someone basically cosplaying the attitudes of someone 20 to 40 years older than them.

I grew up playing both Warcraft III and WoW, the former more often because my parents were skeptical of giving me unrestricted access to an MMO as a child.

WC3 came out in 2002. You are claiming to be 22, and thus that you "grew up" playing a game that came out the year you were born. That seems pretty implausible, frankly. Especially as I doubt your parents were letting you play it at like 6 if they were skeptical of giving you unrestricted access to an MMO (i.e. fairly responsible). You might want to work your character background, honestly.

I played both and, looking back on both WoW in the days of my childhood and Warcraft III, I find myself ultimately having to prefer Warcraft III's take on the lore, setting, and aesthetic as something more coherent and interesting. Not every belief that differs from your own is determined by nostalgia; people can genuinely, impartially analyze two pieces of media and come to prefer one over the other. If anything, it likely speaks to some immense weakness of your position if you can't assert it without resorting to tacky armchair psychology and subsequent denial when said armchair psychology hits a single challenging datum.

You say "Oh it's not nostalgia or rose-tinting it's JUST A COINCIDENCE that I prefer the way something the way it was from my childhood!", which is pretty funny stuff. It's also hilarious that you think this 22-year-old you're roleplaying would say stuff like "tacky armchair psychology" and "a single challenging datum". You speak like a Gen Xer, for god's sake. And like a Gen Xer who doesn't know how to make an argument, just thinks words like "datum" will stand in for any kind of logic lol.

But let's look at my actual argument - I didn't say it was nostalgia. I don't think it actually is, especially as I don't believe for one second that you're 22. I think it's cultural norms, which is very different to nostalgia. You have certain cultural norms, things you don't even notice, and things that stand out for you. You haven't answered that argument at all, you just tried to turn it into a different argument - "nostalgia" and then call that different argument your yourself made up, "tacky armchair psychology". So you still need to answer the actual point re: cultural norms.

Also let me be very clear, you are only looking more like a guy badly roleplaying a 22-year-old than an actual 22-year-old.

(For god's sake your username is AOL Instant Messenger, which is a Gen-X-as-fuck thing to be named, and you're quoting GK Chesterton, which is a Boomer-ass thing to do. Your picture is from the 2011 (i.e. when you were allegedly 9!) M-rated RPG Fallout: New Vegas, which is the favourite RPG of a lot of people aged 30-50, and that people younger than that *tend* to bounce off of because it's so dated in various ways. Your whole deal screams "I am at least in my 40s", and if that's not the case, well maybe think about why you give that impression lol)

[Nibelheimy]

My first memory is playing Donkey Kong country on the snes at 2 years old. I also wasn't allowed wow until I had my own card because my parents were terrified of the internet. People have different life experiences.

[Raetary]

WC3 came out in 2002. You are claiming to be 22, and thus that you "grew up" playing a game that came out the year you were born. That seems pretty implausible, frankly. Especially as I doubt your parents were letting you play it at like 6 if they were skeptical of giving you unrestricted access to an MMO (i.e. fairly responsible). You might want to work your character background, honestly.

This is pretty dishonest.
I also grew up on Wow and WC3, and i'm 23.

Wow was the first big game i was exposed to, and access to WC3 followed promptly after that.
I was a dumb 9 years old and sucked ass at both games, but that shit (clearly) shaped a large chunk of my life from then on.

Both games are 20 and 22 years old respectively, literally a generation worth of time.
Like idk what you think constitutes the idea of "growing up with something", but the general thumb is that subject had a large presence or impact on you, regardless of when it was released.

Most people in fact, grew up with things that came out when they were born or later.

[Zardas]

No, I'm saying your specific complaints and mannerisms are completely implausible as those of a 22-year-old. You'd be the WoW equivalent of Jacob Rees-Mogg if they're real. I.e. someone basically cosplaying the attitudes of someone 20 to 40 years older than them.

He's likely not trying to imitate anyone, but simply choosing his words carefully. You can read plenty of 40 years old dudes and thinking they are 10 years old from their prose alone.

Also, english may not be his first language, in which case he may have a more thoughful and mannered way of speaking, solely because he needs to think a bit more about his words than native speakers.

WC3 came out in 2002. You are claiming to be 22, and thus that you "grew up" playing a game that came out the year you were born. That seems pretty implausible, frankly. Especially as I doubt your parents were letting you play it at like 6 if they were skeptical of giving you unrestricted access to an MMO (i.e. fairly responsible). You might want to work your character background, honestly.

I, too, grew up playing games from the year I was born (or close to it) ; it's absolutely not unusual, especially when said games are as great as WC3. Maybe his parents were WC3 players, and their son would have naturally been drawn towards it.

[Sondrelk]

Presumably it is the top of the beledar, but this may or may not be 11.1.

Do we see the beledar as more of a megadungeon or a raid? Is this zone our 11.1, or 11.1.5?

Purely for mechanics, i could see the beledar for a megadungeon. 4 bosses in the light phase, 4 in the void, evenly split for mythic plus. But either is a possibility.

Who even knows.
In terms of what is relevant to the story compared to what is cool to see as an idea my guess would be Beledar raid and Undermine Megadungeon.
However DF had Aberrus as the raid, and Dawn of the Infinite as the Megadungeon, despite the dungeon being the far more juicy bit of story.

If I was a developer I would probably go for Undermine as the raid, and Beledar as the Megadungeon.
Goblins will never be more relevant than they are now. And while the Beledar is important, it is also tied to the Arathi, whose aesthetic is almost guaranteed to be reused in a major way in future expansions.
That way we get all the Goblin themed stuff we could ever want. And then also a dungeon that could give some Arathi themed armour and weapons. Possibly even something as simple as the Void themed stuff we have yet to see available to the players.

[milkmustache]

If I was a developer I would probably go for Undermine as the raid, and Beledar as the Megadungeon.
Goblins will never be more relevant than they are now. And while the Beledar is important, it is also tied to the Arathi, whose aesthetic is almost guaranteed to be reused in a major way in future expansions.
That way we get all the Goblin themed stuff we could ever want. And then also a dungeon that could give some Arathi themed armour and weapons. Possibly even something as simple as the Void themed stuff we have yet to see available to the players.

Someone had said previously that DF using it's megadungeon to tease aspects of future content was a really fun way to keep it relevent to the story.

A Beledar megadungeon could not only tease what a literal physical battle between light and void looks like, but focusing on the Arathi builds their lore a bit more for when we see them later on.

[Nathanyel]

It's kinda weird that the Japanese of all people messed proper form up.

To be fair, that's the fault of the English translation team. Not sure how the Japanese dub sounds to someone familiar with the language.

[Eurhetemec]

This is pretty dishonest.

You literally don't know what the word "dishonest" means, incredible way to open a post. It's not a synonym or replacement for wrong. It's a character-insult.

I also grew up on Wow and WC3, and i'm 23.

Wow was the first big game i was exposed to, and access to WC3 followed promptly after that.
I was a dumb 9 years old and sucked ass at both games, but that shit (clearly) shaped a large chunk of my life from then on.

Both games are 20 and 22 years old respectively, literally a generation worth of time.
Like idk what you think constitutes the idea of "growing up with something", but the general thumb is that subject had a large presence or impact on you, regardless of when it was released.

As for this rest, you're not making the same wild claims as the other guy, and you're not putting on an affected and mannered performance that is deeply unconvincing.

Most people in fact, grew up with things that came out when they were born or later.

Yeah "or later". Very few, if any, 22 year olds "grew up with" WC3.

[huth]

To be fair, that's the fault of the English translation team. Not sure how the Japanese dub sounds to someone familiar with the language.

Eh, the English translation team doing the German version would certainly explain it.

[Eeram]

I’m not going back a rereading the 6 pages I’ve missed because y’all just be talking about absolutely nothing. Lmao
But I don’t remember an ima take a look after work but when was the 2nd roadmap dropped? Was it after the last patch of the first one was dropped? Like should we be getting a new roadmap the same day as 11.05? Or will be it be out later?

[Eurhetemec]

Like should we be getting a new roadmap the same day as 11.05? Or will be it be out later?

Not necessarily same day, but I don't think it'll be long after.

[milkmustache]

Further musings.

Ancient Kalimdor had days and nights, because Elune rested in the Well of Eternity by day according to Dark Troll lore, and the titan-forged named the continent in the twilight of their final day of work.

But the land was named "land of eternal starlight" for a reason. What inspired the "eternal starlight" part?

We also know the tauren Earth Mother mythology states that she lived alongside the Elementals in darkness, before she created An'she and Mu'sha. This myth has to have been inspired by something.

This is something that folds into a thought I've had for a while, that it is kinda odd that "Elune" essentially has a stake in all of the cosmological forces. She's worshipped by users of the light, obviously is one of the primary figures for life, has ties with Eonar to a point where structures of Order like the Emerald Dream seem to be directly inspired by her (not even considering whatever it is we don't know yet about the Freysworn and Elun'ahir), the "night warrior" and twilight theme feels awfully voidy, her relationship with Ardenweald and the Winter Queen.

Those thoughts aren't very cohesive, but my point being perhaps the naming "land of eternal starlight" and musings of Elune are not as separate of myths and legends as we think.

Titan conspiracy in TLT is that Elune is Azeroth /s (but also...?)

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Perhaps Elune was elevated to her status, much like Bwonsamdi was elevated by Mueh'zala.

Which one indicate the one that reigns above Elune... depending on if they are apart of the force of Light, Life, or Void.

[micwini]

We're talking about the age of specific posters now? Damn we've sunk.
Can someone try and guess me next then?

[Dracullus]

I’m not going back a rereading the 6 pages I’ve missed because y’all just be talking about absolutely nothing. Lmao
But I don’t remember an ima take a look after work but when was the 2nd roadmap dropped? Was it after the last patch of the first one was dropped? Like should we be getting a new roadmap the same day as 11.05? Or will be it be out later?

It was very close to end of year both for 2023 and 2024 map, we already had PTRs for January patches. This year could be different IF Warcraft Direct will be a thing in late 2024, it would be perfect opportunity for reveal.

And I don't think that roadmap itself is that exciting as it won't have any spoilers (of course they could reveal few patches on same event, but that's separate from roadmap) and I doubt they will drastically change DF patch cycle.

[Khaza-R]

Perhaps Elune was elevated to her status, much like Bwonsamdi was elevated by Mueh'zala.

Which one indicate the one that reigns above Elune... depending on if they are apart of the force of Light, Life, or Void.

Elune was called an "upstart goddess" by Xal'atath which I always thought was interesting. Granted that's almost 10 year old lore at this point but I wonder if there will be any elaboration on that in a hypothetical rootlands patch.

Personally my guess is that Life doesn't work like other forces. Instead of a pantheon Elune is a singular entity which multiple facets. Hence why Elune can use Light, Void, Order and even Death magic. The only thing she's really missing at this point is something connected to Disorder.