Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Eldryth]

What do you mean? There's plenty of room for it.

1 word: Megadungeon.

That's possible, but it would still be taking the place of one of the smaller loose ends we have on Khaz Algar, like Beledar or the Undersea.

And I doubt the people asking for Undermine would be satisfied with it just being a dungeon again.

[Joshuaj]

That's possible, but it would still be taking the place of one of the smaller loose ends we have on Khaz Algar, like Beledar or the Undersea.

And I doubt the people asking for Undermine would be satisfied with it just being a dungeon again.

I mean, tbf here, it wouldn't be the only time we'd go to the Undermine, no?

And besides, I'm sure Blizzard wants Goblin players to have Kezan back, especially since Gilneas is somewhat habitable again

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Also, it can be a smaller story-arc, yet still play a vital role in the main storyline for TWW. The Infinite Dragonflight plot did the same thing.

[Sondrelk]

I mean, tbf here, it wouldn't be the only time we'd go to the Undermine, no?

And besides, I'm sure Blizzard wants Goblin players to have Kezan back, especially since Gilneas is somewhat habitable again

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Also, it can be a smaller story-arc, yet still play a vital role in the main storyline for TWW. The Infinite Dragonflight plot did the same thing.

Goblins have had their own city since Cata though. Bilgewater Harbor is literally right there in the middle of Azshara. It's a shitty city with nothing in it but NPCs, but that only puts it on the same level as Gilneas is currently.

[Joshuaj]

Goblins have had their own city since Cata though. Bilgewater Harbor is literally right there in the middle of Azshara. It's a shitty city with nothing in it but NPCs, but that only puts it on the same level as Gilneas is currently.

Oh, you're right.

Still, gimme Undermine!

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How much do you guys want to bet Azeroth gave the mortals free will?

[Enrif]

So with todays Disk Fragment quest.. The titans built a "World Core" around the World Soul so that only they can influence it.

Apparently the World Soul didnt like that and turned the Earthen working on the Core into Thraegar "Crystal Dwarves" (like Magni), who then rebelled, attacked, and damaged the Core.

have to wait until tomorrow to see it for my self. But hearing that Azeroth turned something to crystal makes me think: the light. Crystals are most closely related to the light out of all of the cosmic forces. We have beledar, we have the naaru ships, we heard of worlds conqured by the light to be eternally covered in crystal.

It would make sense if azeroth (or all world souls for that matter) are primarily light, this reflects back the shards of light origin story of the cosmos. This could also relate back to elune, if we assume she is/was the "worldsoul" of the moon, thus a light being, thus related to naaru. But she got "ordered" or "corrupted" and is now whatever she is.

This could also kinda explain why the titans are seemingly so proficiency with the light.

[Joshuaj]

have to wait until tomorrow to see it for my self. But hearing that Azeroth turned something to crystal makes me think: the light. Crystals are most closely related to the light out of all of the cosmic forces. We have beledar, we have the naaru ships, we heard of worlds conqured by the light to be eternally covered in crystal.

It would make sense if azeroth (or all world souls for that matter) are primarily light, this reflects back the shards of light origin story of the cosmos. This could also relate back to elune, if we assume she is/was the "worldsoul" of the moon, thus a light being, thus related to naaru. But she got "ordered" or "corrupted" and is now whatever she is.

This could also kinda explain why the titans are seemingly so proficiency with the light.

Based off current lore, I don't think Elune is a Light being.

But Worldsouls STARTING OFF as beings of "Light" would make sense in a way.

[Enrif]

Bit of a side topic here. But assuming we get Undermine in 11.1. What dungeons would people think we would see return? Motherlode! is a definite of course, but what else would work? I was thinking that Deadmines could be a fun one. Even if the Goblin link is very tentative, and it would need a lot of work to bring up to par with even other Cata dungeons like Vortex Pinnacle.

Grimmrail Depot/Iron Docks could work, not so much for goblins, but their tech used by the orcs. Motherlode would be a no brainer, but what about Operation Mechagon as a counter to the goblins? Tazavesh because Gallywix is there.

[Joshuaj]

I mean, think of it like this:

If we're to assume that the Dark Beyond started off with Light, then Shadow, then the other forces (which is still canon btw, this was never retconned), then maybe the Worldsouls started off similarly?

Afterall, I have been saying that the Worldsouls are likely meant to be combinations of each force, much like the Dark Beyond itself. I mean, shit, forces representing the realms they thrive in is a narrative particularly expressed in Shadowlands.

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So Azeroth being able to generate holy crystals would make sense.

[Enrif]

Based off current lore, I don't think Elune is a Light being.

But Worldsouls STARTING OFF as beings of "Light" would make sense in a way.

Well, we still have the part from legion where Elune is connected to Xe'ra at least.

Random thought: What if Elune is already nearly that what Azeroth could become? A being compossing of more than one cosmic force?

I think a prevailing theory is that Azereoth will end up being a creature that is equally powered by all cosmic forces. What if Elune is halfway there already? Life(Malorne), Light(Xe'ra) and Order(Eonar), Death(Winterqueen) and Shadow(Xal call her a upstart goddess) can all be attributed to Elune in one way or another, only Chaos is missing as far as i'm aware. And being a moon goddess could mean she is of a lesser world soul. Not as powerful as Azeroth or even the titans. But powerful because she is connected to multiple forces.

[Joshuaj]

Well, we still have the part from legion where Elune is connected to Xe'ra at least.

Random thought: What if Elune is already nearly that what Azeroth could become? A being compossing of more than one cosmic force?

I think a prevailing theory is that Azereoth will end up being a creature that is equally powered by all cosmic forces. What if Elune is halfway there already? Life(Malorne), Light(Xe'ra) and Order(Eonar), Death(Winterqueen) and Shadow(Xal call her a upstart goddess) can all be attributed to Elune in one way or another, only Chaos is missing as far as i'm aware. And being a moon goddess could mean she is of a lesser world soul. Not as powerful as Azeroth or even the titans. But powerful because she is connected to multiple forces.

My counter to your theory regarding Elune is this: The Cosmic Forces have worked together on multiple occasions before.

Elune worked with the Titans, the Primus worked with the Titans, Elune likely worked with the Light, Sargeras utilized beings of Disorder to spread his Burning Crusade, etc.

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I do agree with Azeroth being empowered by all 6 forces tho. Infact, I think all worldsouls were meant to be this way, but the Titans lost sight of their initial purpose for them.

[Enrif]

My counter to your theory regarding Elune is this: The Cosmic Forces have worked together on multiple occasions before.

Elune worked with the Titans, the Primus worked with the Titans, Elune likely worked with the Light, Sargeras utilized beings of Disorder to spread his Burning Crusade, etc.

When did the Primus work with the Titans? That is new to me.

Also most of these are one way connections. We know that Elune had at least dealings with four out of the six forces. With Malorne, Eonar, Winterqueen directly, Xe'ra indrectly. I don't think we have any other single greater being in the wow lore that had positive connection to four cosmic forces.

[Joshuaj]

When did the Primus work with the Titans? That is new to me.

Also most of these are one way connections. We know that Elune had at least dealings with four out of the six forces. With Malorne, Eonar, Winterqueen directly, Xe'ra indrectly. I don't think we have any other single greater being in the wow lore that had positive connection to four cosmic forces.

The Primus has memories of the Titans, and he has an "ally who can see into the infinite timeways', which is how the Primus was able to study countless battles across the universes.

That ally was likely Aman'thul.

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Also, Elune was stated by Xal'atath to be an "upstart" goddess. This likely means beings of the Void see Elune in a negative light since she always seems to be interacting with other powers, and moving beyond her station.

[Nebron]

What do you guys hope to see/find after The worldsoul Saga ends. More Azeroth? New world(s)? Going back to adventure or continuing as the champions? New factions with a new split between all races? A huge time skip maybe?

Yup, a solid time skip would be welcome to bring some fresh air - massive potential there for entirely new heroes and villians, overarching, huge storylines - simply - a beginning of a new era.

I'd put my money on Avaloren and would love it to be more of "classic Azeroth", rather than a single-expansion zone. An enormous landmass or a collection of continents, that could serve a purpose of being a centerpiece of future WoW.

Since Void and Titans' lore should be pretty much finished by the end of TLT, I really hope for something entirely out of the box, but still within its culture and its lore - more from a perspective of history.

[Joshuaj]

Idk about a timeskip tbh

[milkmustache]

Random thought: What if Elune is already nearly that what Azeroth could become? A being compossing of more than one cosmic force?

I think a prevailing theory is that Azereoth will end up being a creature that is equally powered by all cosmic forces. What if Elune is halfway there already? Life(Malorne), Light(Xe'ra) and Order(Eonar), Death(Winterqueen) and Shadow(Xal call her a upstart goddess) can all be attributed to Elune in one way or another, only Chaos is missing as far as i'm aware. And being a moon goddess could mean she is of a lesser world soul. Not as powerful as Azeroth or even the titans. But powerful because she is connected to multiple forces.

I think that you're in the ballpark here. I've felt this same way. Elune is clearly something a bit more than Titan but Life Pantheon. I think Elune is the most compelling entity in the story right solely because we don't know what she is, but she is so present in a large portion of the lore and cultures. I don't think we should ever find the truth from Elune, but I think she does a really good job at being a true "god" in Warcraft lore when we're constantly fighting and killing gods. Elune seems crucial to me in sort of muddying up all the waters in this cosmic esotericism that I think has made the lore and story a little too rigid.

[Joshuaj]

I think y'all are overthinking it. I also think Elune's identity is a lil more known than y'all presume

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Heck it's kinda already told to us

[Xilurm]

The whole multiple pantheons is such a bad idea to begin with. I just hope they don't go forward with it. Sticking with just the planes of existence by themselves should be enough. The Titans are a pantheon because they are many. Sargeras took control of disorder, and it didn't need a pantheon. The void lords could be like two or three max, and it would offer a better character dynamic than having them be a whole pantheon of baddies. And then there's the Naaru in the light, some more powerful than others.

If each plane had a different type of hierarchy (or none at all) instead of the same exact thing copy pasted over 6 times, that'd be great.

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I think y'all are overthinking it. I also think Elune's identity is a lil more known than y'all presume

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Heck it's kinda already told to us

Who do you think it is?

[Joshuaj]

The whole multiple pantheons is such a bad idea to begin with. I just hope they don't go forward with it. Sticking with just the planes of existence by themselves should be enough. The Titans are a pantheon because they are many. Sargeras took control of disorder, and it didn't need a pantheon. The void lords could be like two or three max, and it would offer a better character dynamic than having them be a whole pantheon of baddies. And then there's the Naaru in the light, some more powerful than others.

If each plane had a different type of hierarchy (or none at all) instead of the same exact thing copy pasted over 6 times, that'd be great.

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Who do you think it is?

What the lore's been implying to us: Elune is the Winter Queen's sister, and a Life Pantheon member, who's been working a lil above her station VIA aiding other forces. This is likely so she could spread the influence of Life across Azeroth, as well as the rest of the Mortal realm.

[Eldryth]

I think that you're in the ballpark here. I've felt this same way. Elune is clearly something a bit more than Titan but Life Pantheon. I think Elune is the most compelling entity in the story right solely because we don't know what she is, but she is so present in a large portion of the lore and cultures. I don't think we should ever find the truth from Elune, but I think she does a really good job at being a true "god" in Warcraft lore when we're constantly fighting and killing gods. Elune seems crucial to me in sort of muddying up all the waters in this cosmic esotericism that I think has made the lore and story a little too rigid.

Yeah, some of those connections could just be her knowing people from the other forces, but once you look at Light you have her being strongly implied to have created the Naaru and her having the light of the moon as a major theme. There's no way that fits without her having some deeper connection with the Light than Shadowlands' answer suggested.

The only way the Shadowlands stuff can be the full story is if it straight-up retconned away the hints we've gotten before that.

[Joshuaj]

Also, your argument against other pantheons is a BIT moot considering they've doubled down on the Void Lord stuff lately. And yes, I would consider the Void Lords to be the Shadow Pantheon.

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Yeah, some of those connections could just be her knowing people from the other forces, but once you look at Light you have her being strongly implied to have created the Naaru and her having the light of the moon as a major theme. There's no way that fits without her having some deeper connection with the Light than Shadowlands' answer suggested.

I mean, you can just say she gave life to the Naaru. Like the Light shaped and created the Naaru, and Elune gave them the gift of Life.