Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nibelheimy]

I also thought we'd be getting a new Delve companion in season 2. Guess that's not the case.

Yeah, I guess they don't want to go through the effort of balancing an entirely new character every patch. Was certain we were getting Gazlowe for season 2 regardless of whether we got Undermine or not.

May be for the best for now, although I don't see myself getting to the end of the season 2 delve track if its going to be more of the same. its gunna get dull real fast.

[Joshuaj]

So, the Pantheon of Light seems to be a thing that was, and possibly still is, in the Blizzard "planning" stages. That, or "The Archons" were a first rendition of the First Ones, but they were in the Light before obvious changes were made. If the latter is the case, that still doesn't ruin the potential of a Light Pantheon for me. Heck, if anything, they can still exist, but are given a new name and whatnot, as SL talked about the Naarus "Keepers", and the Archon names are given to both a hero spec, as well as an Eternal One.

As for what the new name could be? We don't know. But I've been cooking up with some ideas, and I wanna know what y'all think: I think a good name for the Pantheon of Light could be "The Sovereigns" or "The Luminaries". Or, if you want an actual counter to "The Void Lords" in title: The Divine Council or "The Holy Legislative".

The Divine Council would just be ripped from the Bible, so that's why I said "The Holy Legislative" as an alternative. Also, the Holy Legislative counters the Void Lords perfectly in title (Holy=/=Void, and Legislative=/=Lords? Yessir). The Sovereigns or the Luminaries would work as titles if Blizzard wanted to do something akin to "the Archons" naming convention wise.

[OCoyne]

Also, XIV has casino games and whatnot, why can't WoW?

You're not grasping how strict they are. Even typing /roll as a bet is illegal in Belgium which is why Blizzard got rid of deathrolling, soon in the UK it's going to be illegal for any sports team regardless of level it's at to have a Gambling sponsor.

That's when you realise the idea is completely bonkers. Western Europe governments would actually lose their shit, the absolute bare minimum which would happen is slapping a 18+ age rating on the game and that's being lucky when it comes to the super strict laws like they have in Belgium. Alot of governments are turning their attention towards banning Smoking cigarettes and heavily taxing vaping so anything mental health related which can cause an addiction or physical symptoms is just completely taboo now.

There's no slots games at all in 14, they're arcade games like tossing a basketball into a hoop. That's not gambling.
Any sort of concept has to be culturally popular and not gambling, FF14 has its own Mahjong game, Mahjong is a super popular board game in Japan and they genuinely cream over it - I've tried it and it's far too complex for me.

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Very late food for thought, but Bilgewater Cartel renown will be the first time a player race faction is a neutral rep/renown.

This is why the concept makes absolutely zero sense. Why would a Alliance player side with the Bilgewater? Why would anyone side with any of them except the Venture Co if they're exalted with the Bloodsail Buccanneers?

"Remember when I came to Booty Bay and slaughtered you all for 4 hours straight to become a well revered Pirate? Well, about that. I'm just here for the Delve keys"

[Ersula]

I think they backtracked to it being a companion for a whole expansion instead of a companion each patch. Unsure why, but I do see the appeal of having it be one character you can have fun and meme with for a whole expansion instead of just saying "bye Brann" when Undermine drops.

Now, if Brann actually got a GOOD questline, that would be nice!

I bet its because how much they had to tune Brann since launch made them decide to keep him rather than having to design a new set of mechanics each season.

This is why the concept makes absolutely zero sense. Why would a Alliance player side with the Bilgewater? Why would anyone side with any of them except the Venture Co if they're exalted with the Bloodsail Buccanneers?

"Remember when I came to Booty Bay and slaughtered you all for 4 hours straight to become a well revered Pirate? Well, about that. I'm just here for the Delve keys"

This is why I'm surprised Undermine stans are happy with this. Now this entire continent is being downgraded to a single zone when it could have been a whole future expansion setting. I never imagined the 4 known goblin Cartels were the only ones in Undermine, but now that's apparently canon.

Given the giant Gallywix statue, I have to assume the story will establish that the Bilgewater who remained in Undermine are still loyal to Gallywix, and therefor, the Horde Goblins will have to formally establish themselves as an entirely new Cartel.

[Enrif]

Of course not, because they were turned into dwarves by the curse of flesh and eventually broke out (or were freed by an earthquake or whatever...details).

Just to make it clear, the idea is that Khaz Modan-dwarves are all descendants of those Thraegar influenced by Azeroth. Maybe that influence is the reason why the Curse of Flesh affected them but not the "regular" Khaz Algar Earthen.

i like that theory. Uldaman housed Archaedas too, and Archaedas was the main Keeper of the Earthen of Khaz Algar too. Might very well be, that the Threagar got relocated by Archaedas to Uldaman.

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...Except there are still Earthen in Uldaman. Uldaman earthen were explicitly in stasis so the curse of flesh would not advance. We've scoured Uldaman so thoroughly we know everything about it. It was just one of Tyr's laboratories. It's not a prison. If the Ironforge ancestors were Thraegar, why would the Algarian Earthen have records of them but Ironforge does not. Ironforge's inception happened way closer to present day than the Algarian Earthen's memories. So many of the long lived races have recent memories of the evolution of the Dwarves considering it happened between 1000 & 1500 years ago. That's like one high elf lifetime. Stormwind would have records of Diamond men emerging from the mountain, but they don't. It's explicitly recorded as stone-men.

Also Uldorus isn't a prison either, The Vault of the Incarnates is a completely different place. They're next to each other, but Uldrous' explicit function is hiding the Dragon Isles.

Earthen remain in Uldaman, but the Dwarfs currently outside Uldaman once emerged from there. Who's to say that these dwarves were not Thraegar and thus turned to dwarves, while the normal Earthen remained back in Uldaman. Of course there wouldn't be any Thraegar left there as they all escaped. And that histry speaks of earthy creatures, well Magni at the start of TWW was all mate and did look rocky enough, not like a shining diamond any more. Thraegar that got turned to flesh might be similar that they don't look much like diamond anymore once they emerged Uldaman.

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btw, about the runestone on the roadmap, many think it is the heartstone to your home, which could be true, but it could also be something else.

a poster on Reddit made a good observation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...its_wod_remix/

the rune is quite close to the ogre runes of WoD, and the bar in the Roadmap turns green, doesn't have to mean Legion, as WoD's end game was also demon focused

[Nibelheimy]

Came here to post about the rune being Ogre/WoD themed.

Interesting, could be possible it's WoD remix, which I am happy for. WoDs questing was fantastic and I've been meaning to run the alliance side for a while now. My biggest hope is that they give us the cut chronal spire as the home zone for that remix.

The actual rune on the roadmap does look a lot more like a house, than the one in the WoD animation. But they are strikingly similar.
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Upon looking, the rune while similar to a hearthstone is actually backwards from our normal hearthstone format, not confirmation for or against, other than every other hearthstone image I can find in game has the exact same spiral, and this one is backwards. I don't know why you would want it different, so I'm leaning more towards Ogre remix.

Do I dare to dream about WoD remix where you play as an Ogre? Plunderstorm let you play as classless and Drac'thyr couldnt even take part, so is it so far fetched?

Remix would be a great excuse to add in races to the factions that were missed out on as I've said many times before. But I never considered having Remix being the way to make your new race exclusively through the event to eventually come into the game. Rather than a questline explaining how they joined, you play the remix of how they joined. The only issue is starting zones for people who missed the remix event. Timewalking BD with Broken and Ogres? Northrend with Tuanka and Frost Dwarves and Neutral Tusk'arr? Sign me up.

[Merryck]

I wonder if they'll use WoD remix to test new player housing features in the garrisons.

[Auxis]

Red Shirt Guy pointed out the guy in the housing video is a High Elf in a Human themed house. Take that as you will.

He's also a warrior using the rogue Artifact version of Thunderfury, so take it as you will x2

[Nymrohd]

The Delve Companion not changing still makes little sense to me. Sorry but the fairly limited Zek'vir buffs don't make much difference to how you handle a delve but a new companion would make a significant difference; using Brann effectively is all about positioning mobs effectively and moving them through his traps or making best use of his potions. Undermine better add more than 2 Delves or else there is no real change from the last season.

Oh, apparently Brann will be able to tank now. I guess that would be a significant playstyle change.

[huth]

The Delve Companion not changing still makes little sense to me. Sorry but the fairly limited Zek'vir buffs don't make much difference to how you handle a delve but a new companion would make a significant difference; using Brann effectively is all about positioning mobs effectively and moving them through his traps or making best use of his potions. Undermine better add more than 2 Delves or else there is no real change from the last season.

I've kinda given up on the traps given how often they just fail to work.

It's funny to have the boss of the Hallowfall Kobyss delve summon illusory traps to attack you, though.

But we're also getting new curios and they're likely to adjust Brann's abilities, probably in a more significant manner given that this is their first foray.

[Nymrohd]

I've kinda given up on the traps given how often they just fail to work.

It's funny to have the boss of the Hallowfall Kobyss delve summon illusory traps to attack you, though.

But we're also getting new curios and they're likely to adjust Brann's abilities, probably in a more significant manner given that this is their first foray.

Just read the interviews, they are letting him tank so it will not just be new curios but also new abilities. And let's face it, if he can tank, that's how he will be played.

But I have a good level of success with the traps. There are a few specific mobs that seem to be immune to them which is probably yet another bug but I've figured which those are and just don't bother then. I've managed to get 7-8 stacks of the trap debuff on some elites and damn is it strong.

[Enrif]

Red Shirt Guy pointed out the guy in the housing video is a High Elf in a Human themed house. Take that as you will.

Could be Void Elf, or Dracthyr in Visage form too. Not sure how to deduct it is a high elf.

[huth]

Just read the interviews, they are letting him tank so it will not just be new curios but also new abilities. And let's face it, if he can tank, that's how he will be played.

But I have a good level of success with the traps. There are a few specific mobs that seem to be immune to them which is probably yet another bug but I've figured which those are and just don't bother then. I've managed to get 7-8 stacks of the trap debuff on some elites and damn is it strong.

I'm reasonably sure it's down to how they're handled as entities rather than abilities. Nothing is immune. But some enemies have a weirdly small hitbox (especially Nerubian Lords) and they seem to often fail when exposed to AoEs. Or maybe they just miss, which has its own problems.

I'll have to see how well he does as a tank.

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Could be Void Elf, or Dracthyr in Visage form too. Not sure how to deduct it is a high elf.

Yeah, only thing we know for sure is that it uses the Elf body. But that's used by 3 different playable races, so it doesn't tell us much.

And a Void Elf in SW wouldn't be particularly noteworthy.

[Xilurm]

You're not grasping how strict they are. Even typing /roll as a bet is illegal in Belgium which is why Blizzard got rid of deathrolling, soon in the UK it's going to be illegal for any sports team regardless of level it's at to have a Gambling sponsor.

That's when you realise the idea is completely bonkers. Western Europe governments would actually lose their shit, the absolute bare minimum which would happen is slapping a 18+ age rating on the game and that's being lucky when it comes to the super strict laws like they have in Belgium. Alot of governments are turning their attention towards banning Smoking cigarettes and heavily taxing vaping so anything mental health related which can cause an addiction or physical symptoms is just completely taboo now.

There's no slots games at all in 14, they're arcade games like tossing a basketball into a hoop. That's not gambling.
Any sort of concept has to be culturally popular and not gambling, FF14 has its own Mahjong game, Mahjong is a super popular board game in Japan and they genuinely cream over it - I've tried it and it's far too complex for me.

Then I sure hope GTAVI doesn't have a whole casino again because it would suck not being able to use it, again.

[Chickat]

Oh and Undermine + dynamic ground mount?
What a wonderful time to play WoW, f*ck !

Tinker is unfortunately still absent. Maybe for TLT.

Titan themed seems way more interesting anyways imo.

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I wonder when the 11.1 PTR starts.

Maybe January?

Either they will have the 11.0.7 ptr running concurrently with the 11.1 ptr or the 11.1 patch is delayed a few weeks. I think adding an extra week or two to every patch wouldn't hurt much and would give them more time for qa and bug fixes.

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My excitement for Housing can't be understated but it is the very nervous kind. This is a very fiddly type of feature that can be implemented so many different ways and I've seen several that were just . . . bad.

Id be happy with swtor level housing. It's not free place but there are like hundreds of clips that you can slide assets into. That's pretty much what I'm expecting. Ill be happy with that but full free placement would be amazing.

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Very possible, though I think players are going to want to have different housing and décor themed around different characters, so we'll see.

Id bet housing will launch pretty bare bones. Instanced, 1 house for each faction, pretty small house. They will update the system over time with new houses etc.

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No, my child. Our time will come... but not just yet!

Probably after world soul saga.

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ESO has such a tiny budget compared to WoW and when they rolled Housing out, they had one House per zone (about 20 houses) and over 2000 furnishings.

I really hope there is strong profession integration with housing. Wonder which profession would cover woodworking needs.

They could probably do that but it would legit be the only big feature for the expansion. I think its somehow more expensive to make assets for wow? Either that or wows budget isnt much higher than ESO and they are just profiting without putting significant funding into wow.

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See, the thing with housing is it's a way they can utilize a shitload of assets they've already got built and sitting in the game files. It's really just a matter of turning the countless doodads in the game into collection objects, populating the game world with them (via drops, treasures, quests, achievements), and giving you a way to display them in a house of your choice.

I imagine that it'll launch with a somewhat limited scope in comparison to the twenty years worth of assets they've got to pull from, and naturally they'll want to grow it and implement more things over time to keep players engaged with it.

But some things I can say with near certainty:

• Players will want to be able to choose where there house is, just having instanced apartments in Stormwind and Orgrimmar isn't going to cut it.
• Players will want to choose what type of house they have -- size, style, racial theme, etc.
• Players will want to be able to actually choose the placement of their decorations so that their space feels unique, I don't think just socketing trophies onto slots on the wall will be satisfying.
• Players probably won't be satisfied with just a single warband house. It really does need to be handled per-character, so your goblin can have their house in Undermine and your blood elf in Eversong Woods, your dwarf in Khaz Modan, your worgen in Grizzly Hills, etc.

Personally, the idea I've had in my head for a while now is a "Homestead Act" system. Horde and Alliance decide to reward every hero of Azeroth for their service by bestowing them a land-grant. This allows each character to claim a plot of land from one of various zones in the game and build a homestead there. There might be requirements to claiming these plots, like driving off monsters, completing certain quests, or reaching reputation/renown milestones.

After you've chosen your plot of land you can then build your house. They could probably have whole game systems built around this. Different styles of housing for different races and reputation factions... maybe even a whole secondary profession like Architecture.

They can then use phasing and Delve style instancing so that other players can visit your house, and maybe some sort of overhauled Hearthstone or key system to give you and maybe even other players quick access to it.

At the same time I think those systems could be fleshed out to also allow for a parallel Guild Housing feature, and maybe even a Warband Barracks feature or something like that.

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I mean they can deprecate it. Most players aren't using Void Storage across all their characters, but it's reserved storage. They can replace it with a reclamation vendor to recover items that are rare or no longer obtainable and give players a chance to migrate their items out of it before removing it entirely.

Guild housing/castles etc seems like a perfect expansion of the system in TLT imo. If they do that, add tinkers in tlt along with vrykul and tuskarr that would match my tlt features from last blizzcon guessing to a T.

My midnight features was logging, carpentry for furnishing, housing, naga and Ethereals.

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I think house placing is the biggest jump for tech, unless it is like ESO where the house model is out in the world and is phased once you purchase it/enter the premises.

Actually placing it wherever? Not going to happen.

Yeah placing won't happen, but I could see multiple houses eventually. A house in Grizzly Hills. Its the same plot of land for everyone. Maybe even the same house. You get a tiny outdoor area for a garden and mount showing off. House the size of a larger Boralus home.

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Probably has been said already, but cant help but thinking about Garrisons and how blizz likes to put weird restrictions on most things. Creating illusion of choice.

I truly hope this will give freedom... but having set slots or premade slots you cant change or costumize will simply not be interesting. We have seen that already. Also placements of your house should be endless. We need simple locations as well. Houses in stormwind or some random farmhouse. In or out the main cities. Just a lot options.., but I am not holding my breath of that type of freedom. I will put my money on set places and low on options. Maybe 8 for horde 8 for alliance or something stupid like that.

2 set places per faction per zone could also create cool pvp options maybe.. just thinking out loud.

I wouldn't get your hopes up. I really think it will be 1 house per faction at launch.

[allegrian]

I think it's pretty clear the rune is for housing. Blizzard always releases the preorder of the next expansion right after its reveal/blizzcon, and the rune appears just after midnight's full reveal. So they'll probably add housing (for non-midnight zones) with the midnight preorder, just like AR with BFA and so on.

[Chickat]

I really need Highways in the Undermine man...

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This is likely the answer, but could you imagine if the Undermine had multiple entry points?

What if we get to explore Kezan too?

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It'd be... fine, I guess. I don't really feel a burning need to be able to access other places like Zandalar from Undermine. There are all kinds of other faster easier ways to get around the planet.

It does make me wonder how much of the Undermine zone will be above-ground. Or even how much of Undermine we'll actually see. Can we fly around Mount Kajaro? Will we be able to see Bilgewater Port? Are they going to restrict flying so we rely on vehicle movement and can't go beyond whatever slice they give us?

What if your can fly on the surface and that's about 1/3 of the zone but when you ever Undermine Gallywix shoots you down with anti aircraft cannons?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Do we have any idea what Nightfall is?

I believe it's related to Beledar and the Nightfall Arathi. The way it's presented in the road map is similar to how "Dark Heart" was presented.

Probably another .5 or .7 patch with a long quest line and a scenario at the end.

[Chickat]

You were partially right with the Golden Saucer which is cool. Hope the Gallagio has actual playable Casino games! That would be cool.

Also, I do hope we see some Highway stuff or Racetracks with the D.R.I.V.E system! Based off what I've seen in pictures, it seems like we could be getting a Gas system as well, namely with there being gas stations and whatnot.

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And if you're wondering, no, the things above the buildings are not roadways above ground. Those are Sewage Pipelines, which makes sense considering it's underground.

What if the raid environment turns into a casino in a future expansion.

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I think they will "unclog" the bottom of the current Coreway and reveal a path to another area that's deeper than all the rest, which has both the Rootlands and the entrance to the Worldcore. So they will be able to juggle both Titan and Life/Root vibes in the same zone and also keep the raid distinct from 10.2.

Titan Architecture covered in moss and thick vines would go hard im not gonna lie.

[Lady Atia]

back at Blizzcon they implied we would, but it seems they meant we'd get a new companion each expansion, assuming delves proves itself an evergreen feature.

No, they defo backtracked on the whole delve companion thing - originally they said it would be seasonal, with a new companion each season. Guess the feedback that people don't want to leave their Branns behind changed that now though (even though the better solution would have been to allow us to choose between both s1 and s2 companions instead of having that annoying dwarf being with us all the time lol).

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To be fair, we could be getting a section of Undermine, with ominous doorways and railtracks leading off to other destinations that we won't get to see this time. Undermine could be a whole underground kingdom of sorts, with different regions.

It's also possible these four cartels are treated sort of as "great houses" in Game of Thrones or Dune, and there may be many others that simply aren't relevant to this particular story. It's not like we got every human kingdom with the launch of WoW, or every orcish clan.

It's also not a new phenomena that we collaborate with seemingly strange allies. Like Warlocks in the Emerald Dream or Paladins in the Undercity or whatever. WoW frequently puts players in awkward positions in this regard.

Na, the idea of an Undermine expansion died with that patch. That said, now that we got TWW as the define "underground expansion", I think both Undermine and WotLK Nerubian Kingdom ideas would have felt like a rerun, so they basically just mashed them together (which works far better than the bullshit expansion they call BfA).