Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[elbleuet]

They just keep removing territory, factions and cities from the alliance Lore for shock value.

This needs to stop. The Horde has so many interesting factions that only need to be developed and because they are not we need more boring neutral organizations.

[Joshuaj]

You raise good points here, but I wouldn't rule anything out. Even massive bait-and-switches.

Metzen said that the forces of the Light will defend the Sunwell and banish the Shadow forever. He didn't specify at what point in the expansion, or if it'll escalate into a war against some Light-affiliated faction by the end (he did say things wouldn't go to plan).

Fot TLT he said we'll return to the wintry lands of Northrend and witness the return of the Titans to Azeroth. Beyond that, though? For all we know, we could go there in 13.0, see them arrive and die in the intro scenario, and then deal with a completely unexpected story for the remainder.

That said, I'm not saying we should expect a bait-and-switch. I agree there has been a lot of build-up for more Titan lore. For example with everything going on fot Odyn and Tyr.

In a sense, Midnight and TLT just feel like Metzen came back, grabbed the reins, and said "eff this nonsense, time to revisit traditional and beloved pillars of Warcraft lore again".

So with that in mind, maybe we should expect the expected and just embrace it.

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Maybe!

I'm kinda leaning into the whole lore reset thing.

Like, we defeat the big bad in 13.0, and Azeroth experiences a golden age.

An age of exploration, compelling us to travel to distant shores. Not because of a world-ending threat, but because we want to.

Over there, we find a massive archipelago of small- to mid-sized landmasses of different kinds.

Green dragons that evolved.
Communities of marooned sailors.
Ancient civilizations untouched by the Titans.
Different kinds of life, far away from the Well of Eternity.

The start of a new era, a bit of a breather like MoP, while expansions following it could be set on either side of the planet.

I mean, that's fair. I kinda want that to be the saga after the next one though, imo.

TWS Saga feels like a slow build up back into the cosmic stuff, ya know? It wouldn't hurt to go all in once more, especially for a Saga.

Like, imagine a revamp.of Outland for the first expac (With us going to Xoroth, Nathreza, etc as either patch zones or something like that), imagine TLT giving us the realm of the Titans, but as instances, only for the next saga to give them to us as proper zones in the second expac, and imagine the last expac of the saga having us enter the true depths of the Nether, since we know so little about it (Outside of the fact that the Nether's depths have a lot of Hellfire based stuff, such as the Nighthold Mythic Infernal Mount).

[Joshuaj]

Could be interesting!

Although, I think one lesson learned in Shadowlands is to never go full cosmic. Pretty much all expansions touched on cosmic lore to some degree, but there seems to be a concensus that people still want Azeroth to be prominent.

You know, mountains, rivers, lakes, forests, deserts, jungles, towns and villages, etc.

I think SL was more-so a lesson on not going full cosmic without proper build up (cause, let's face it, the Shadowlands as we know them NOW were not at all built up).

It's why 10.2 and the Worldsoul Saga have so much build up regarding Life (especially Elune), the Light, the Titans, and the Void.

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Heck, even Disorder's had some focus, albeit it's still Legion or Dreadlord based.

[CasualFilth]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

[Ersula]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

But if an old zone were completely updated full of new buildings, creatures & activities, what would be the difference.

What I want them to fix is making so many patch zones that become irrelevant both during & after the expansion because their content is so short-lived & skipped over even during Chromie Time.

[Pyrophax]

Still boring asf. Just like Tauren mages can be.

Quel'Thalas will be the main hub of the next expansion, so obvously the Magisters won't afk for long so I don't see your point.

Speaking about Jaina's words, she's right. The Kirin Tor must protect the Alliance. And not become a world organization for homeless orc mages.

And that is boring to me. Not everything in game bend over to Alliance. You have your time in totally Alliance expansions of Legion->TWW, things go even worse in Midnight and TLT.
So running neutral is at least acknowledging that another, bigger, half of players exist. Players who are sick from total Alliance focus of Legion->BfA-SL-TWW expansions.

[Khaza-R]

What I want them to fix is making so many patch zones that become irrelevant both during & after the expansion because their content is so short-lived & skipped over even during Chromie Time.

Brawler's Guild or DMF moving to Undermine would be a nice start.

[ChairmanKaga]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

I think if they did a proper revamp of EK and Kal, leaving the Cata verisons as bronze dragon/time-whimey accessible, new Zones could be rolled out over the course of the expac like Dragonflight's Forbidden Reach/Zarelak/Emerald Dream or the upcoming Undermine/Siren Isle etc.

[Joshuaj]

I'd argue that no matter how much Titans, Old Gods, Naaru, etc are built up, people wouldn't enjoy entire expansions set in their domains.

Final patch zones or raids, sure. But there has to be normal stuff as well.

All depends on balancing out the cosmic stuff from the grounded stuff, and it also depends on what people prefer. Me, personally, I'm a sucker for cosmic stuff, and I'd love to see more cosmic realms in WoW as expansions. However, I can see why many others wouldn't want these expac themes.

But due to WoWs age, and due to all the cosmic stuff that's being built up, there aren't many non-cosmic related stories to tell for expansions, both grounded on Azeroth and otherwise.

[Kellorion]

if Green on Roadmap IS for Legion Remix, then i hope finally for new DH's

Orc
Mag'har
Draenei
Void Elf
Nightborne

[The-Shan]

I'm 1million% in for a world revamp BUT I truly want NEW zones for a new expansion.

honestly I don't really care for new zones just for the sake of them being new, there is something to be said about the world becoming too bloated, when they can revisit older areas we know and love and have interesting things occur there, I like that eastern kingdoms kalimdor and Northrend could be central places to the plot again instead of throw-away continent #11

[Nymrohd]

I'm OK with revamped zones but if all I got was revamped zones, I'd expect a WoD level revamp, not a BfA Arathi Highlands revamp.

[elbleuet]

And that is boring to me. Not everything in game bend over to Alliance. You have your time in totally Alliance expansions of Legion->TWW, things go even worse in Midnight and TLT.
So running neutral is at least acknowledging that another, bigger, half of players exist. Players who are sick from total Alliance focus of Legion->BfA-SL-TWW expansions.

So you're sick from Alliance expansions but ready to follow an Alliance leaning faction with Alliance background mainly composed of Alliance races ?

What's the logic behind this ?

Btw I totally get you and I sincerely hope Midnight, which is happening in a Horde territory will be a Horde expansion.

But please, stop this neutral nonsense. It's like I asked for neutral Magisters. The Magisters are interesting because it's blood elf and because it's Horde. Same for the Kirin Tor and the Alliance.

[Golden Yak]

I don't know about it being a 'Horde' expansion. I don't really think of expansions as being one faction or the other centric, and it is in Horde territory, but there's plenty of Alliance-aligned factions involved.

If it's all about the elven races, then...

High Elves - Alliance
Night Elves - Alliance
Blood Elves - Horde
Nightborn - Horde
Void Elves - Alliance
Naga - Hostile
Arathi Empire - Neutral

These are the elven related groups I see having a major role. Arathi might seem a stretch, but they are of high elven descent as well as human, so Quel'thalas is their homeland too. And there probably aren't that many high elves left, but this would be the xpac to finally explore what they're currently up to.

[Sondrelk]

I don't know about it being a 'Horde' expansion. I don't really think of expansions as being one faction or the other centric, and it is in Horde territory, but there's plenty of Alliance-aligned factions involved.

If it's all about the elven races, then...

High Elves - Alliance
Night Elves - Alliance
Blood Elves - Horde
Nightborn - Horde
Void Elves - Alliance
Naga - Hostile
Arathi Empire - Neutral

These are the elven related groups I see having a major role. Arathi might seem a stretch, but they are of high elven descent as well as human, so Quel'thalas is their homeland too. And there probably aren't that many high elves left, but this would be the xpac to finally explore what they're currently up to.

This is why one can hope for Midnight being Northern EK rather than just Quel'thalas. Three Classic Forsaken zones turned into one big one about Forsaken issues against threats like the Scarlet Crusade.
Could even have Arathi Empire proper show up and really lean into evil humans vs good undead.

[milkmustache]

I'm OK with revamped zones but if all I got was revamped zones, I'd expect a WoD level revamp, not a BfA Arathi Highlands revamp.

I mean... that's exactly what we'll get. Even further.

I'm so surprised at a lot of the turns on the revamp expansions here. A lot of people were so hyped on this idea a year ago and now we're doubting it?

I'd argue that Midnight and TLT revamps will be far more involved and expansive than WoD Outland revamps. The WoD Revamps came out 8 years after we first saw Outland. Midnight's revamp will take place 20 years after we first saw Quel'thalas, and the same for TLT and Northrend. Just look at the differences in zone design between Shadowlands and Dragonflight, and then even further now with TWW. The team is taking huge leaps in their overall zone design, I don't think there's a situation where a revamped Quel'thalas doesn't feel completely new. These zones will be expanding and will see the results of significant culture change over 20 years.

[Golden Yak]

This is why one can hope for Midnight being Northern EK rather than just Quel'thalas. Three Classic Forsaken zones turned into one big one about Forsaken issues against threats like the Scarlet Crusade.
Could even have Arathi Empire proper show up and really lean into evil humans vs good undead.

I think that it should be revamped, I just don't agree that it needs to now, or even that it should happen now.

For Midnight, the focus should be on the elven lands and the Void. The Arathi Empire forces can show up to help fight the Void and re-connect with their elven roots. There's seven elven-flavored factions in the mix, on top of whatever the Void-aligned forces and other antagonists are going to get up to - Azshara, Void Lords, trolls and their history with the elves, etc.

That's plenty of content already.

For an eastern kingdom revamp, I think they should wait until after TLT. They can have the Arathi Empire be the main antagonistic force - they help us save the world, and then dust their hands off and go "Okay! Good! We saved the world. And now... it's time for us to rule it!"

Then the focus on the next expansion/saga can be the Arathi trying to take over the Eastern Kingdoms, reclaiming their old homelands. That'll be the time to revamp them, and we can really delve into some more grounded, non-cosmic tier shit about human history, the state of undeath (Arathi have undead too) all that stuff.

[Nibelheimy]

People are exited about the Arathi Empire and that's great, but we don't need them as a footnote in an expansion. They're being set up to be a possible big bad for future saga's here.

I'm sure notable Arathi will help us during Midnight, but I'd love to see us go with a small group of Hallowfall Arathi after this saga. Only to find the God Emperor of the Arathi on Avaloren is not friendly to other races and nations at all. Has no interest in establishing trade or relationships with anybody out side of his empire.

I could see us landing on Avaloren, the Arathi who brought us back with them being executed for treason, and us being kept as prisoners/coliseum slaves for the God emperor, only to break out and make our own stand on the new continent. Especially after he realises if we can get to him, he can get to us.

[Joshuaj]

So...I played with the idea that Azeroth is the creator (I don't believe it myself personally, but I did look into the idea). Y'all wanna see what I came up with?

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I'll post a whole separate thread on it if you like, but it's based off what's expressed in the current lore, as well as recent showcases of "Zeroth" being talked about in mathematics (Like how Zeroth comes before First, etc), and how fans are connecting it to the whole "Azeroth" name (In-universe of course).

[Hitei]

But if an old zone were completely updated full of new buildings, creatures & activities, what would be the difference.

It's not really the same thing, especially for EK/Kalimdor zones which have already been reused once before.