Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I mean... that's exactly what we'll get. Even further.

I'm so surprised at a lot of the turns on the revamp expansions here. A lot of people were so hyped on this idea a year ago and now we're doubting it?

I'd argue that Midnight and TLT revamps will be far more involved and expansive than WoD Outland revamps. The WoD Revamps came out 8 years after we first saw Outland. Midnight's revamp will take place 20 years after we first saw Quel'thalas, and the same for TLT and Northrend. Just look at the differences in zone design between Shadowlands and Dragonflight, and then even further now with TWW. The team is taking huge leaps in their overall zone design, I don't think there's a situation where a revamped Quel'thalas doesn't feel completely new. These zones will be expanding and will see the results of significant culture change over 20 years.

Here is the thing. Warcraft has a wack sense of scale and housing complicates matters there.

The Warcraft World is at once massive and tiny. In simple surface area, it is a massive world. Yet our speed is ever increasing making it feel small. It has so many "towns" yet many towns are 4-5 buildings. And buildings are probably the biggest issue; most houses in WoW are a single very small room with doodads that are out of scale. Warcraft buildings are not made to provide any sense of realism; they are made so they can work with a camera that doesn't know how to handle tight spaces and to feel reasonably similar for a tauren and a gnome.

Modern Warcraft zones do far better when it comes to scale. Imo the best version of WoW for this is Kul Tiras. Kul Tiras is supposed to be one of the smallest Human Kingdoms and you can find it in three zones with multiple towns. Kul Tiran towns have dozens of buildings with multiple points of interest. Compare Brennadam and Corlain with Darkshire and Lakeshire or Boralus with Stormwind; compare a house in the former with one in the latter. Compare them to Hallowfall for something more current! For Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor to be able to match the scale of modern Warcraft, you need to double or triple their surface area. You don't need to just spruce up the textures and the buildings, you need to build them from the ground up.

Can you imagine if a small house for housing in Elwynn is like one of the houses just outside Goldshire? You can barely turn the camera around in there without having clipping issues, imagine having to place furnishings. But if it is much larger so that it allows you some space to decorate, it would be out of scale with the rest of the zone.

So yes, I am very excited about Midnight and about Housing. But I am also wary of how they execute that revamp. Because by it's nature, being attached to the rest of Lordaeron, Quel'thalas cannot really be scaled up.

I know the housing system that I love, but it is in a game (ESO) with a vastly better sense of scale that is only possible because of how it is NOT really an open world like Warcraft. And I just wonder how this will work for WoW.

[Dracullus]

People are exited about the Arathi Empire and that's great, but we don't need them as a footnote in an expansion. They're being set up to be a possible big bad for future saga's here.

I'm sure notable Arathi will help us during Midnight, but I'd love to see us go with a small group of Hallowfall Arathi after this saga. Only to find the God Emperor of the Arathi on Avaloren is not friendly to other races and nations at all. Has no interest in establishing trade or relationships with anybody out side of his empire.

I could see us landing on Avaloren, the Arathi who brought us back with them being executed for treason, and us being kept as prisoners/coliseum slaves for the God emperor, only to break out and make our own stand on the new continent. Especially after he realises if we can get to him, he can get to us.

Oh yeah, I really hope that. Avaloren as random patch island would be a total waste. Now they are slowly building up this place, so when we will see it in X years, it won't be out of blue expansion.

Imo right after Last Titan we should return to OG zones (doesn't have to be this memed "total revamp expansion", Kalimdor and EK could be split between 14.0 and 15.0) and completely down to earth stories before it ramp up again with Avaloren expedition.

[Nymrohd]

Oh yeah, I really hope that. Avaloren as random patch island would be a total waste. Now they are slowly building up this place, so when we will see it in X years, it won't be out of blue expansion.

Imo right after Last Titan we should return to OG zones (doesn't have to be this memed "total revamp expansion", Kalimdor and EK could be split between 14.0 and 15.0) and completely down to earth stories before it ramp up again with Avaloren expedition.

I hope Avaloren is a full continent that we stay at least an entire expansion in; heck I have suggestions on how we could stay there longer, exploring a larger area that is not just 4 zones (maybe 8-9 zones and some cosmic ending so we can be there two expansions?)

[Pyrophax]

Avaloren can be built for awhile, after that storm will end. They can be new Scourge for Vanilla or Zandalari - oversea potent threat.

Imagine they will help Scarlets in Tirisfal in Midnight, then in Northrend in TLT. Then they siege Plaguelands. Then we can see attack on Arathi Highlands. And list can go forth. And after 2-3 expansion of building it - we go into expedition to Avaloren to deal with it.

[KyleEverett]

For me the biggest story gap right now is after the last Arathi mage died trying to make a portal, we don't have Jaina helping them. Jaina, the mage that famously can lift memories from someone's mind and show others. She could absolutely make that portal back to the Empire today. The Arathi say their purpose is to fight the void and that is who we're fighting right now.

That's why to me it feels so odd we don't deal with it at all for multiple expansions.

[Auxis]

For me the biggest story gap right now is after the last Arathi mage died trying to make a portal, we don't have Jaina helping them. Jaina, the mage that famously can lift memories from someone's mind and show others. She could absolutely make that portal back to the Empire today. The Arathi say their purpose is to fight the void and that is who we're fighting right now.

That's why to me it feels so odd we don't deal with it at all for multiple expansions.

Isn't the issue with the last Arathi mage that ALL of his works and formulae were destroyed by his assassin? If so, Jaina would have to start from scratch formulating how it would work.

[LordVulpius]

Isn't the issue with the last Arathi mage that ALL of his works and formulae were destroyed by his assassin? If so, Jaina would have to start from scratch formulating how it would work.

Jaina could read memories, in theory. So, she could read all end everything from the mage's memory. If the theory is right.

[Ersula]

Jaina could read memories, in theory. So, she could read all end everything from the mage's memory. If the theory is right.

You're assuming memories help mages make portals. We have no reason to think that. For all we know, the caster has to have been in the location the portal is going in order to cast it, which is how Portal Trainers work. The Arathi Mage essentially had to try creating an entirely new kind of teleportation from scratch.

[Kellorion]

Also for Legion Remix, I want this as an off hand

[milkmustache]

Avaloren can be built for awhile, after that storm will end. They can be new Scourge for Vanilla or Zandalari - oversea potent threat.

Imagine they will help Scarlets in Tirisfal in Midnight, then in Northrend in TLT. Then they siege Plaguelands. Then we can see attack on Arathi Highlands. And list can go forth. And after 2-3 expansion of building it - we go into expedition to Avaloren to deal with it.

This is exactly how I feel. I think the general power creep of WoW has brought us to a point where as soon as a threat is introduced, it's extinguished. Long term, this is incredibly unsustainable. There's a lot of really interesting subgroups in this world that would be beneficial to the world building through expansions. I'm glad they're bringing the Venture Co back around this expansoin for that exact reason.

I think the same should have happened for the Sundered Flame. Sometimes not everyone needs to return to the correct path shrug. I really enjoyed Sarkareth's story of pure delusion from betrayal, and I think it would have been fun to have a group of dragons always seeking to claim some legacy that everyone but them can understand is only a pile of ashes.

But with the Scourge being handled and us having gone to the Shadowlands, smaller groups of undead feel inconsequential. The Zandalari have joined us. Hell, I bet in 12.0 the Amani will join us too. At some point the threats run out because we absorb these groups into our own, which is fine, but they need to be replaced by more than just someone a rung up the ladder.

I think that the Arathi can be incredible for this. We just now learn of them and spend the next two expansions seeing them help rebuild a group we consistently have fought until it's time for us to journey to their shores to learn of their lands and the threats that exist there.

[LordVulpius]

You're assuming memories help mages make portals. We have no reason to think that. For all we know, the caster has to have been in the location the portal is going in order to cast it, which is how Portal Trainers work. The Arathi Mage essentially had to try creating an entirely new kind of teleportation from scratch.

But if Jaina is able to read memories, she could read the memory of the new process of that new teleportation tech.
So, not the location, but the whole method.

[Valysar]

They changed the house icon, it's now confirmed that's for housing I assume (a house with WoW logo)

[Nibelheimy]

I'm partial to the idea that the Saga after this one will be entirely on Avaloren.

Say the globe map can be switched to the other side, and we have an entirely new world map for this new location. Other than the Arathi that are human and elven based which we know landed there some time ago in their expedition, everything else can be entirely new and unseen. They can then get really creative, entirely new races and civilisations.

Each expansion could add a new continent on this 'other side' we would essentially have a new fresh world map for the saga.

[Golden Yak]

I'm down with another saga that unfolds across a contient. Exploring 1/3rd of it at a time. Not a little island zone like Broken Isles, Dragon Isles, etc. but a big continent akin to the first two. Too much land to cover in a single expansion.

[Joshuaj]

Team Disorder Vs Order for life.

[Ersula]

But if Jaina is able to read memories, she could read the memory of the new process of that new teleportation tech.
So, not the location, but the whole method.

How do you read the memory of a magical technology that does not yet exist? Because it doesn't. They didn't teleport to Khaz Algar, they took boats.

Also for Legion Remix, I want this as an off hand

It's totally going to be TBC Remix - But I'm honestly surprised we have to wait over a year for another Remix, they should do one at least yearly.

[Valysar]

I want BfA Remix so bad, I'm tired of my 925 Rustfeather kills.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Jaina could read memories, in theory. So, she could read all end everything from the mage's memory. If the theory is right.

Given that said mage is dead reading his memory’s would likely be hard.

Not that it would really matter there’s like 5 other ways they could figure it out without his research with Khadgar knowing how to see visions of the past and bronze dragons and the like.

[Lady Atia]

Also for Legion Remix, I want this as an off hand

You can get it as a dagger atleast! Drops from Mannoroth.

[Eldryth]

I'm down with another saga that unfolds across a contient. Exploring 1/3rd of it at a time. Not a little island zone like Broken Isles, Dragon Isles, etc. but a big continent akin to the first two. Too much land to cover in a single expansion.

I love the idea of that, but it's hard to picture it working well, logistically.

Given that flying would probably be available, they'd need a way to keep us from entering the rest of the continent early that doesn't feel completely artificial. An invisible wall, or multiple magic barriers splitting up the empire for years... maybe the latter could work, but it feels forced.