Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

It's kinda stupid to fight LIFE itself, isn't it? Just commit suicide and you automatically win?

The others already pointed it out how it could work.

We have to remember that the Cosmic Force of Life, is not the concept of Life, like the Cosmic Force of Chaos is not the concept of randomness and unpredictability.

Cosmic Forces are reflections of fundamentals, but don't control these fundamentals. This can also be applied to stuff like the origin of the universe, from the clash of light and void. This light and void is not necessary the same as the cosmic forces of light and void, which are more like reflection of it.

[Shadowferal]

It's kinda stupid to fight LIFE itself, isn't it? Just commit suicide and you automatically win?

That actually makes sense.
But Blizz is about presentation regardless how nonsensical it is. The "spark of life" is different in all...life, or some other fallacious argument. Perhaps relative to what sparks "consciousness.."

[Cheezits]

We have still yet to meet a true god of the Fel. The closest thing was a corrupted Titan and then a bunch of corrupted (on purpose) Death spies.

It may be that there aren't any, due to the inherent nature of chaos, but eh. I would like to see more powerful demons.

[FossilFree]

We have still yet to meet a true god of the Fel. The closest thing was a corrupted Titan and then a bunch of corrupted (on purpose) Death spies.

It may be that there aren't any, due to the inherent nature of chaos, but eh. I would like to see more powerful demons.

Have you noticed that the Burning Legion is basically chaos that has been ordered? It's lead by a god of order, has an ordered army heirarchy, and has structured plans. I think order has done this to most, if not all, the other forces.

Life being tamed like a garden: order. Death having a structure: order. Light having an army: order. Not sure about void having order though, maybe the last one to oppose order? Seems like the Titans might be the real big bad in the end though.

Remember, the TLT logo shows one of those Titan ring prisons around Azeroth's worldsoul.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

We have still yet to meet a true god of the Fel. The closest thing was a corrupted Titan and then a bunch of corrupted (on purpose) Death spies.

It may be that there aren't any, due to the inherent nature of chaos, but eh. I would like to see more powerful demons.

Would be interesting if there ended up being a "pantheon" for Disorder as well, but I kind of hope they do not have one.

Disorder, chaos, inherently disorganized and volatile. The opposite of Order. It wouldn't make sense for the natural state of Disorder and beings of Disorder (demons) to have structure and hierarchy.

The only reason the Burning Legion exists is because a titan organized demons into a structured military. The Burning Legion was (and still probably is) the most dangerous component of Warcraft's physical universe because of Sargeras giving them organization and structure.

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That actually makes sense.
But Blizz is about presentation regardless how nonsensical it is. The "spark of life" is different in all...life, or some other fallacious argument. Perhaps relative to what sparks "consciousness.."

No, it doesn't make much sense? Not with how Life has been presented to us up to this point.

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We've already seen that unchecked Life can be chaotic and dangerous too- just see the Botani in Gorgrond and the Everbloom. If and when we fight cosmic Life, that's the kind of threat I would expect- just pure, uncontrolled growth that threatens to consume everything.

One prime and excellent example here.

And remember-- the Botani are now in Azeroth. They have been in Azeroth for some years now. Only a matter of time they show back up in TWW, perhaps the haranir patch.

[Jaggler]

Would be interesting if there ended up being a "pantheon" for Disorder as well, but I kind of hope they do not have one.

Disorder, chaos, inherently disorganized and volatile. The opposite of Order. It wouldn't make sense for the natural state of Disorder and beings of Disorder (demons) to have structure and hierarchy.

The only reason the Burning Legion exists is because a titan organized demons into a structured military. The Burning Legion was (and still probably is) the most dangerous component of Warcraft's physical universe because of Sargeras giving them organization and structure.

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No, it doesn't make much sense? Not with how Life has been presented to us up to this point.

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One prime and excellent example here.

And remember-- the Botani are now in Azeroth. They have been in Azeroth for some years now. Only a matter of time they show back up in TWW, perhaps the haranir patch.

I think the Pantheon of "Disorder" could exist, but not as a bunch of entities, but just positions. With there being a prime entitiy for strength, deception, corruption etc. but it's in a constant flow of old rulers being overthrown, deceived and challenged to have the strongest at the top.

[Joshuaj]

It's kinda stupid to fight LIFE itself, isn't it? Just commit suicide and you automatically win?

That's not how that works.

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The process of living is not the same as the literal cosmic influence of Life.

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Have you noticed that the Burning Legion is basically chaos that has been ordered? It's lead by a god of order, has an ordered army heirarchy, and has structured plans. I think order has done this to most, if not all, the other forces.

Life being tamed like a garden: order. Death having a structure: order. Light having an army: order. Not sure about void having order though, maybe the last one to oppose order? Seems like the Titans might be the real big bad in the end though.

Remember, the TLT logo shows one of those Titan ring prisons around Azeroth's worldsoul.

What Sargeras did was unique though, and it went against the Pantheon's mission.

Life having a structure is shown primarily through the Dream in a cosmic sense, but across the entire Dark Beyond and Azeroth, it's ordered due to Eonar's nature as the Life Binder.

As for the rest of the forces? Yeah none of that is Titan influenced dude lol. Light and Death are literally forces built around structure. This is confirmed in SL.

And funny how you argue you can't find anything to support the argument that Void has "orderly" stuff around it, when you literally have the Black Empire, generals in the Void (Both Old God and Void Lord based), etc.

Not saying I agree with your take regarding Order and the other forces at all, but I at least wanted to help your argument a bit, just because it's fun to argue devils advocate sometimes.

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Would be interesting if there ended up being a "pantheon" for Disorder as well, but I kind of hope they do not have one.

Disorder, chaos, inherently disorganized and volatile. The opposite of Order. It wouldn't make sense for the natural state of Disorder and beings of Disorder (demons) to have structure and hierarchy.

The only reason the Burning Legion exists is because a titan organized demons into a structured military. The Burning Legion was (and still probably is) the most dangerous component of Warcraft's physical universe because of Sargeras giving them organization and structure.

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No, it doesn't make much sense? Not with how Life has been presented to us up to this point.

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One prime and excellent example here.

And remember-- the Botani are now in Azeroth. They have been in Azeroth for some years now. Only a matter of time they show back up in TWW, perhaps the haranir patch.

If a Disorder Pantheon did exist, they would have to function in the exact opposite manner to the Titans.

Meaning, they would be Anarchists. They wouldn't have a structure to them, they wouldn't "rule" over the demons, they wouldn't work together and would likely be in constant conflict with one another, etc.

IF they exist, the Titans (namely Sargeras) either defeated and imprisoned them in their own realms, or the Disorder Pantheon are too busy fighting amongst themselves to care about the rest of existence.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

If a Disorder Pantheon did exist, they would have to function in the exact opposite manner to the Titans.

Meaning, they would be Anarchists. They wouldn't have a structure to them, they wouldn't "rule" over the demons, they wouldn't work together and would likely be in constant conflict with one another, etc.

IF they exist, the Titans (namely Sargeras) either defeated and imprisoned them in their own realms, or the Disorder Pantheon are too busy fighting amongst themselves to care about the rest of existence.

I mean... that's my point. If they were to exist, they would have to function completely opposite of Order.

...so why would it exist in the first place? It doesn't make sense.

At the very least I could imagine much stronger demons attempting to take over control of other groups of demons by brute force and violence.

This is why I don't believe there will be a Pantheon of Disorder, or any sort of semblance of hierarchy of demons outside of the Burning Legion, and I don't believe there should be.

[Lady Atia]

I mean... that's my point. If they were to exist, they would have to function completely opposite of Order.

...so why would it exist in the first place? It doesn't make sense.

At the very least I could imagine much stronger demons attempting to take over control of other groups of demons by brute force and violence.

This is why I don't believe there will be a Pantheon of Disorder, or any sort of semblance of hierarchy of demons outside of the Burning Legion, and I don't believe there should be.

Idk, Warhammer works just fine with a pantheon of chaos gods who usually fight against each other unless they have an Everchosen / Dark King / Warmaster. Same could be done to the remants of the Legion - just say Sargeras put the biggest primal demons into some titan prison on it's own world (not the one he cleaved through) and have someone break them out.

[Joshuaj]

I mean... that's my point. If they were to exist, they would have to function completely opposite of Order.

...so why would it exist in the first place? It doesn't make sense.

At the very least I could imagine much stronger demons attempting to take over control of other groups of demons by brute force and violence.

This is why I don't believe there will be a Pantheon of Disorder, or any sort of semblance of hierarchy of demons outside of the Burning Legion, and I don't believe there should be.

Pantheon just means a collective group of gods. The Disorder Pantheon can exist, but that doesn't mean they need to be hierarchal in nature.

They can just represent the most powerful beings in Disorder, the pure originators of the demons, and also be entirely anarchal in nature.

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Idk, Warhammer works just fine with a pantheon of chaos gods who usually fight against each other unless they have an Everchosen / Dark King / Warmaster. Same could be done to the remants of the Legion - just say Sargeras put the biggest primal demons into some titan prison on it's own world (not the one he cleaved through) and have someone break them out.

Tbf here, the Chaos Gods are a lil different, as they are more-so manifested and kept around by the denizens of the Warhammer cosmology. Meaning, if someone represents war, blood, and absolute savagery to the most extreme, they'll basically become the manifestation of "Khorne", etc. However, if no one represents that idea, or that mindset, then I'm pretty sure "Khorne" itself just doesn't exist.

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They're kinda like the Sha in a way, but far more extreme.

Doesn't mean a Disorder Pantheon can't exist though. Nor does it being a Pantheon have to mean they're orderly or hierarchal in nature. The Void Lords are a literal example of that. Granted, the Void Lords are still rulers, and aren't of Disorder, so I can't fully use them in the same light.

Disorder's Pantheon would have to be full of representatives, not rulers. They would have to be totally anarchal in nature, lacking any form of government or rule about them. Meaning, say one of the Disorder Pantheon members represents Wrath, Bloodshed, and pure Destruction. That being would have to be the total opposite of Sargeras in nature.

Instead of defense, they're offense. Instead of fighting to protect the order of the universe, they would instead fight to spread anarchy whereever it reigns. Instead of fighting with their Pantheon, they would instead fight against their Pantheon and anyone who dares stand in the way of its onslaught, etc.

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So, basically, remember how Chronicle described the demons pre-Legion? Well, think of it like that, except add in the idea that the "strongest demons" were actually just the chaotic, unruly counterparts to the Titans. Have the actual conflict end up being a bigger struggle than once thought, though have the outcome of the conflict remain the same, where Sargeras saw that the demons, as well as the Disorder Pantheon, were fighting amongst themselves, which made defeating them all the more easy.

[Telogrus]

Is there a disc fragment quest today?

[Joshuaj]

Is there a disc fragment quest today?

Yep.

[Cheezits]

It would be cool if Sargeras's death leads to a bunch of demon cages unlocking.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So, the double-down triple-down on the history of Azeroth through the Warcraft Chronicles volumes being not only a specific perspective, but also an edited and meddled with history.

Oh you dastardly titans. Get your hands out of the cookie jar already!

Of course the titan's creations, and what those creations ended up becoming, would always be viewed as pawns in their schemes.

Also... the implication that all the information we are receiving from Archaedas in these Archives quest chain... might not even be the actual truth. Implying that even the directives given by the titans to the Keepers could also be a smoke screen.

[Foolicious]

Yep.

Pretty much confirms the speculation about the hall of awakening and the edicts.

So where is archaedas? Dagran forgets to mention that we saw him a few years ago and beat his ass in uldaman.

[Joshuaj]

Me after seeing the recent logs, and hearing that there's likely more to the Worldsouls nature and the Titans plans than we were led to believe (Which we all kinda knew, but this does mean my theory is possible):

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So where is archaedas? Dagran forgets to mention that we saw him a few years ago and beat his ass in uldaman.

Archaedas is merely disabled in Uldaman, according to Exploring Azeroth: The Eastern Kingdoms.

[Cheezits]

This makes sense to show in game but this was pretty obviously the plot to anyone who knows the story when metzen said "Titan conspiracy". Oh well!

[Khaza-R]

We're definitley getting Thraegar skins in a 11.2 patch

[KOUNTERPARTS]

This makes sense to show in game but this was pretty obviously the plot to anyone who knows the story when metzen said "Titan conspiracy". Oh well!

I bet the big conspiracy reveal will be that the titans want to just siphon the Prime Worldsoul's power/energy to fuel their own takeover of the universe. That's why they want to keep it asleep.

Or, worse...

...they need the power of the Prime Wordsoul, to drain it dry and destroy Azeroth, in order to fight off WHAT IS TO COME...