Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

I think, when chronicles were written, they were meant to be metaphorical. That we now, relatively recently got a few actual shards might be a distraction. Like there is the metaphorical “looming shadow “ of the burning legion, but that doesn’t mean the burning legion is of the shadow. Or that sargeras is the dark titan, but not a dark titan that the pantheon feared the void would create.

Which would be a normal assumption, if we weren't talking about the Naaru, a species of literal crystalized light. Shard of light is not an expression. It's "Ray" of light, or "Beam" of light. Actual Shards of light hitting planets is something very common in Warcraft lore.

[milkmustache]

I'm still going to stand strong that I believe a massive part of the Titan Conspiracy is that either themselves or the Worldsoul falls under the domain of the Naaru and the Light.

Right now, we're being pitched the Worldsoul Saga as Azeroth and the Titan's creations vs. the Void, but the massive "Empire Strikes Back" moment that Metzen pitched as Midnight is described as joining "the armies of the Light to banish the Shadow for good".

There will be some massive reveal in the next few patches that lead us here. The Light plays a very small role in the story at the moment. It is going to expand massively at some point soon, and all signs feel like they are pointing at it being involved with this Titan conspiracy we're slowly seeing unfold from Archaedes.

[Joshuaj]

I think it's interesting they chose to retcon the Arathi from having been in Hallowfall for 800 years, to a mere 15.

Might not have anything to do with the Beledar per se, but the fact that they considered it to have been down there for centuries at the very least suggests to me that it didn't get flung into that cavern roof recently.

The direction is also interesting. I guess it looks a bit like it came from below - the ceiling around it has marks of an explosion of sorts, doesn't it? As if something struck it from below and the energy released on impact sort of affected a wide radius around the object.

But where would it have come from? Below the sea in Hallowfall?

The tiny little hole where the water pours into?

How would something as large as the Beledar just appear out of nowhere.

It either came from above, or it came from underneath the sea is my guess. Unless it just magically appeared, just like the Arathi were teleported into Hallowfall from the seas above.

So what inside that ocean in Hallowfall could cause that?

Does the ocean lead directly to the Worldcore? Is that entire site infested with voidy creatures, and is the Beledar sent by the worlssoul to act as a distress beacon?

Maybe the empire itself existed for 800 years? Not so much the expedition at Hallowfall?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still going to stand strong that I believe a massive part of the Titan Conspiracy is that either themselves or the Worldsoul falls under the domain of the Naaru and the Light.

Right now, we're being pitched the Worldsoul Saga as Azeroth and the Titan's creations vs. the Void, but the massive "Empire Strikes Back" moment that Metzen pitched as Midnight is described as joining "the armies of the Light to banish the Shadow for good".

There will be some massive reveal in the next few patches that lead us here. The Light plays a very small role in the story at the moment. It is going to expand massively at some point soon, and all signs feel like they are pointing at it being involved with this Titan conspiracy we're slowly seeing unfold from Archaedes.

Why can't the Worldsouls be based around all 6 forces? Why must they be connected to just 1 power?

[milkmustache]

Why can't the Worldsouls be based around all 6 forces? Why must they be connected to just 1 power?

It can be. My point here is that the conspiracy implies that something is awry. The Worldsoul being involved with the Light as well I think is still a negative thing.

I agree to your points that it seems the intention here in the story is that the Worldsoul should not be influenced by one power, but all in harmony. I just think the part of the conspiracy invovles the Light having a much larger grasp on it than we truly think, going as far to even possibly controlling the Titans in some form (Aman'thul perhaps).

So to your point, Worldsoul meant to be a harmonic entity of all the powers in the universe, some of these powers are vying for control. My belief here is that while it seems the Titans are the ones grabbing for control of the Worldsoul, they're doing so either under direction of the Light, or the Light has already made it's claim and the Titans are warring with them to gain their own favor. I personally believe the Titans are under direction of the Light.

[Joshuaj]

It can be. My point here is that the conspiracy implies that something is awry. The Worldsoul being involved with the Light as well I think is still a negative thing.

I agree to your points that it seems the intention here in the story is that the Worldsoul should not be influenced by one power, but all in harmony. I just think the part of the conspiracy invovles the Light having a much larger grasp on it than we truly think, going as far to even possibly controlling the Titans in some form (Aman'thul perhaps).

So to your point, Worldsoul meant to be a harmonic entity of all the powers in the universe, some of these powers are vying for control. My belief here is that while it seems the Titans are the ones grabbing for control of the Worldsoul, they're doing so either under direction of the Light, or the Light has already made it's claim and the Titans are warring with them to gain their own favor. I personally believe the Titans are under direction of the Light.

I don't think the Titans are under direction of the Light at all. I will however say that there's likely more to their mission than meets the eye.

- - - Updated - - -

Hypothesis:

1.The Great Dark Beyond is born as a result of the cosmic conflict between Light and Shadow. In this moment, masses of energy are flung out into the physical universe. Worldsouls. These are inherently of the physical universe, and as such belong to no cosmic force in particular.

They are of reality.

The worldsouls are attracted to the warmth of other nearby energy sources: stars. Like nebulae, the energy of the worldsoul is almost like a nursery.

Over time, solid matter begins to coalesce around the worldsoul, and a planet comes to be. Azeroth.

2. One of the shards of Light sent out in the dawn of the cosmos finally hits Azeroth.

Life is born, and first among it are the Elementals, and myriad of other creatures. Perhaps even the ancestors of the Tauren and Trolls?

The shard's energies eventually turn Azeroth bright and luminous.

Interestingly there does seem to be a close relationship between the forces of Light and Life, as evidenced by Chronicles Vol. 1, which says the Naaru are always on the lookout to protect Life. So there's some form of symbiosis going on.

Over time, as the worlssoul grows, it consumes Spirit. The Elementals become increasingly unruly and wage wars on each other.

3. A number of Old Gods also finally collide with Azeroth, 5 to be precise. They begin burying themselves in the planet, their long tendrils reaching far across its surface and deep below. The worldsoul is almost overtaken by Void. The Elementals, and many other living beings, are enslaved. The Black Empire is formed. However, infighting is common and the prophecy says only one of them will remain to consume the worldsoul.

One of them, called Xal'atath, is slain by her brethren.

4. Aggramar discovers Azeroth, and eventually the Pantheon of Titans arrive, realising the peril that the worldsoul currently finds itself in. But also the opportunity it presents.

They construct the Manifold, shape oceans and mountains to contain the Old Gods as best they can. But they also imprison them, as well as the worlssoul, giving their machines time to work. The worldsoul takes on a blue shimmer, affected by Order magic.

5. With the Old Gods defeated, the Light through Elune reaches out to Eonar and reveals to her the truth of the cosmos. They form an alliance and find affection for one another.

Together, they device to steer the sleeping worldsoul's development in as good a direction as is possible.

So they tap into the realms of Life and Death, shaping the Emerald Dream and parts of the Shadowlands to their purpose. Wild Gods will roam Azeroth to protect it, and great world trees will bury their roots deep into the soil, calming the worldsoul and protecting it from the imprisoned Old Gods' influence.

From the Well of Eternity, they draw from Azeroth's own essence to create and evolve life. The Kaldorei are born, and are meant to aid in the defense of Azeroth as wardens of the world trees, and watchers of the Old Gods' minions.

Outraged, Aman'Thul tears down Elun'Ahir, fearing it would destabilise their titan-forged creations and disrupt the construction of the Manifold. He sees many futures and knows of the impact rampant Life might have.

6. Fast-forward through the last ten thousand years or so, and the forces of Shadow, Disorder and Death will many times over seek to destabilise the current world Order, in defiance of Order, Light and Life which currently hold the most sway on the worldsoul.

The Burning Crusade fails.
The Scourge fails.
The Hour of Twilight fails... or does it?

As Xal'atath once said, defeat often benefits N'Zoth.

With the Titans' world order coming crumbling down in the Worldsoul Saga, the roots of Elun'Ahir corrupted by Old God blood, and the Light giving way to Nightfall... Midnight awaits!

What parts of the Death domain would Eonar and Elune shape for Azeroth? Do you mean the ghost realm? Cause that's the Veil.

Also, are you saying Elune is Light based or Life based?

[Khaza-R]

I'm still going to stand strong that I believe a massive part of the Titan Conspiracy is that either themselves or the Worldsoul falls under the domain of the Naaru and the Light.

Right now, we're being pitched the Worldsoul Saga as Azeroth and the Titan's creations vs. the Void, but the massive "Empire Strikes Back" moment that Metzen pitched as Midnight is described as joining "the armies of the Light to banish the Shadow for good".

There will be some massive reveal in the next few patches that lead us here. The Light plays a very small role in the story at the moment. It is going to expand massively at some point soon, and all signs feel like they are pointing at it being involved with this Titan conspiracy we're slowly seeing unfold from Archaedes.

Archaedes could also be wrong or misled. Its quite possible there's more than one Beledar and what he thinks that giant pieces of Azerite are actually other Naaru ships that perhaps plunged into the planet for some ulterior purpose.

[milkmustache]

Archaedes could also be wrong or misled. Its quite possible there's more than one Beledar and what he thinks that giant pieces of Azerite are actually other Naaru ships that perhaps plunged into the planet for some ulterior purpose.

You know what-- you're totally right. When we were told that Beledar was a piece of Azeroth's essence calcified and shot through the earth, we were under the assumption that Archaedes was telling the truth, but today's update on that progress showed that Archaedes seems confused on why he's even entering these logs. He could fully be mistaken at what he is seeing.

I had a longer post about it a few pages back, but I really, really cannot see Beledar being anything other than a Naaru ship or something adjacent.

Crackpot theories that it's holding Yrel would be stupidly fun. I sincerely doubt it.

[Merryck]

You know what-- you're totally right. When we were told that Beledar was a piece of Azeroth's essence calcified and shot through the earth, we were under the assumption that Archaedes was telling the truth, but today's update on that progress showed that Archaedes seems confused on why he's even entering these logs. He could fully be mistaken at what he is seeing.

I had a longer post about it a few pages back, but I really, really cannot see Beledar being anything other than a Naaru ship or something adjacent.

Crackpot theories that it's holding Yrel would be stupidly fun. I sincerely doubt it.

That was my first thought when he revealed to us that Beledar is calcified World Soul essence. I was initially skeptical because it is the least interesting explanation.

[milkmustache]

That was my first thought when he revealed to us that Beledar is calcified World Soul essence. I was initially skeptical because it is the least interesting explanation.

I suppose we may learn some more with Siren Isle, as we're all chasing after this piece of crystal shard.

[Khaza-R]

You know what-- you're totally right. When we were told that Beledar was a piece of Azeroth's essence calcified and shot through the earth, we were under the assumption that Archaedes was telling the truth, but today's update on that progress showed that Archaedes seems confused on why he's even entering these logs. He could fully be mistaken at what he is seeing.

I had a longer post about it a few pages back, but I really, really cannot see Beledar being anything other than a Naaru ship or something adjacent.

Crackpot theories that it's holding Yrel would be stupidly fun. I sincerely doubt it.

From an in-universe lore perspective it makes a bit of sense.

The keepers probably would have no knowledge or the Naaru or their technology. So even if they did encounter something like Beledar, they would likely just assume it was a chunk of azerite rather than believing it came from some other worldsoul.

[Joshuaj]

Archaedes could also be wrong or misled. Its quite possible there's more than one Beledar and what he thinks that giant pieces of Azerite are actually other Naaru ships that perhaps plunged into the planet for some ulterior purpose.

This...is true. Archaedas could be wrong. But then you have to ask: Why is the song radiating from it so similar to Azeroths?

[milkmustache]

This...is true. Archaedas could be wrong. But then you have to ask: Why is the song radiating from it so similar to Azeroths?

I think it's important to note that "singing" and "songs" have been associated with the Naaru in the past, as they quite literally have a harmonic singing sound to them.

I can't remember if Anduin had believed the raidant song to come from Beledar or not. If he did, it's possible that some people were spoken to from Beledar, perhaps another force of power in the universe taking advantage of Azeroth's imprisonment for their own good (in this case I'd imagine the Light's war on the Shadow).

[Nibelheimy]

I think it's important to note that "singing" and "songs" have been associated with the Naaru in the past, as they quite literally have a harmonic singing sound to them.

I can't remember if Anduin had believed the raidant song to come from Beledar or not. If he did, it's possible that some people were spoken to from Beledar, perhaps another force of power in the universe taking advantage of Azeroth's imprisonment for their own good (in this case I'd imagine the Light's war on the Shadow).

I think he did indeed say the vision for him on entering Hallowfall, was from Beledar.

It is quite possible that the world soul is indeed corrupted by the Light through the shards. If Archades little notes we're viewing are indeed incorrect information. The War Within could be revealed to be light and void fighting over the worldsoul, though we don't realise Lights influence just yet.

There's a reason they chose to have a giant light crystal with Naaru ruins on it as their centrepiece of the zone. If it is just calcified worldsoul essence, why the similarities to the Naaru? The titans arrived to Azeroth after the old gods had already rooted themselves, would it be so farfetched the light had already made moves with the crystals? If it is just calcified Worldsoul essence, why are the two we've seen in game both light based? (presumably with siren isle)

[Joshuaj]

I think it's important to note that "singing" and "songs" have been associated with the Naaru in the past, as they quite literally have a harmonic singing sound to them.

I can't remember if Anduin had believed the raidant song to come from Beledar or not. If he did, it's possible that some people were spoken to from Beledar, perhaps another force of power in the universe taking advantage of Azeroth's imprisonment for their own good (in this case I'd imagine the Light's war on the Shadow).

It came from Beledar seemingly.

Also, fair, but the Radiant Song and the Beledar song are pretty much the same I think.

[Nibelheimy]

That was my first thought when he revealed to us that Beledar is calcified World Soul essence. I was initially skeptical because it is the least interesting explanation.

Absolutely. It makes no sense to draw all of these similarities to A Naaru ship and the light, if the crystal is just world soul essence.

[milkmustache]

I think he did indeed say the vision for him on entering Hallowfall, was indeed from Beledar.

It is quite possible that the world soul is indeed corrupted by the Light through the shards. If Archades little notes we're viewing are indeed incorrect information. The War Within could be revealed to be light and void fighting over the worldsoul, though we don't realise Lights influence just yet.

There's a reason they chose to have a giant light crystal with Naaru ruins on it as their centrepiece of the zone. If it is just calcified worldsoul essence, why the similarities to the Naaru? The titans arrived to Azeroth after the old gods had already rooted themselves, would it be so farfetched the light had already made moves with the crystals? If it is just calcified Worldsoul essence, why are the two we've seen in game both light based? (presumably with siren isle)

This is exactly where my mind is. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm going to think there's more to the story when I'm told it's a chicken.

I like the idea about one of the many faces of "the war within" being a literal war within Azeroth for influence of the worldsoul between the Light and the Void both trying to circumvent the Titans influence. But it's obvious many or most of the forces have made gambits for the worldsoul. Disorder via Sargeras plunging his sword, Life via Elun'ahir's roots, Death via the Jailer, Void as we're seeing now, Order as we've always seen, and Light that has yet to be seen.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I hate the First Ones.

Especially if they embody the six forces, because then why would the Void First One, the embodiment of chaos and possibility, consent to being ordered in the first place?

It's dumb and bad.

The roe of Yaldaoth (the hermaphroditic Prolix Serpent) were the constellar; they were the first, the children of Order from before Disorder. But envy drove a few, and they began to overstep their boundaries. They tried to conquer the other prongs and made the sixth force in the process, bearing names of the conquests that never were. Many subjugated themselves to the titans in shame; others continued on their devil-dervish.

These were the First Ones, the forebears of defilement in whose image the Nathrezim were made. They were the "first ones" to fall to sin, to turn to defilement, to summon the Fel.

And, in time, they were the Tothrezim: the lords of Disorder sealed by Sargeras.

̶y̶e̶a̶h̶,̶ ̶o̶b̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ ̶e̶x̶i̶s̶t̶i̶n̶g̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶w̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶d̶e̶a̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶

[Nibelheimy]

This is exactly where my mind is. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm going to think there's more to the story when I'm told it's a chicken.

I like the idea about one of the many faces of "the war within" being a literal war within Azeroth for influence of the worldsoul between the Light and the Void both trying to circumvent the Titans influence. But it's obvious many or most of the forces have made gambits for the worldsoul. Disorder via Sargeras plunging his sword, Life via Elun'ahir's roots, Death via the Jailer, Void as we're seeing now, Order as we've always seen, and Light that has yet to be seen.

It also works very well with Light and Voids similarities, and being almost two sides of the same coin.

With Naaru turning from Light to Void, we're seeing void Paladins in the Nightfall Sanctum Devle too. Suddenly, we have new golden Naaru runed shards of light that look like they've impacted the site, not grown within it and the main one.. turns to void sometimes?

The light throwing Naaru powered ships into planets as a mirror to Void Lords Flinging Old Gods across the cosmos works perfectly.

All of a sudden, we get new weekly quest tidbits saying hey, its actually just natural worldsoul growth causing these crystals. Then weeks later, we're explicitly told not to trust the narrator becuase even he may not know the whole truth.

Lastly, I think its interesting how the coreway is built down to Hallowfall in a path. Then stops as you see the worldsoul. Almost as if they took one look at that and went. 'Nah, we don't want the earthern near that' if it was natural worldsoul shit, why aren't the earthen examining it, why isn't the Beledar part of the Manifold?

The whole thing just doesn't make sense, I really hope they slowly turn the truth out on us and this will be some of the best writing they've managed to do for a while in game.

[Eldryth]

Archaedes could also be wrong or misled.

Considering the dialogue already has Dagran directly questioning if Archaedas himself could have been deceived, and TLT focuses on a big conspiracy that's supposed to change everything we thought we knew about the Titans and Azeroth, that much seems likely. I'm just not sure whether everything will be wrong, just certain details are false, or if everything will technically be true but highly misleading without important missing context.

Personally, I had suspected that the big deceptions would be about the Pantheon's plans for Azeroth and the Worldsoul's true nature, not details like the crystals, but I could definitely be wrong on that.

[Nibelheimy]

It's dumb and bad.

oh Yessire.