Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Black Rider]

Like I said; An underground expansion makes zero sense without Undermine.

Now let's see if Blizzard drops the Tinker mid-expansion (11.1.5-11.1.7). I'm tilting towards yes.

Is there anything more than expansion thematic pointing something towards Tinker type class?
maybe some files? or smt

[Joshuaj]

Just to be clear, I'm not fully convinced either way. Elune remains an enigma to us all.

That said, I don't find her light/darkness and lunar/starlight theme a very strong argument for very supposed association with the force of Life.

If anything, it reminds me a lot of how the Light is seemingly always looking out for Life.

It's almost as if Light is the ultimate good, and on its side you have Life one peg down the hierarchical ladder, with Order being one peg further down but more closer to being neutral.

Then on the other end of the spectrum, Shadow stands in opposition to the Light, with Death one peg below it and finally Disorder as a more neutral agent of chaos below that.

If you think about it, there are recurring themes that seem to support this.

The Light is typically wielded by mortals in defense of the living, or expressed through powerful beings like the Naaru, also seeking to spread Life. Similarly, Order seems to be a productive force that wants to build and grow. It doesn't necessarily consider individual lifeforms important, but it wants Life, beauty, and Light to prosper. It prefers civilization over oblivion.

Then you have Shadow and Death, both of which frequently speak of annihilation, the abyss, oblivion, the end of things, and endless Void, and so on. Sure, the Void and Death seemed at odds in the Windrunner comic, but that might have been more speficially about the Jailer, who clearly wanted to change the status quo and just end everything. He feels like an infiltrator of Death rather than its true master, tbh.

So anyway, I like your ideas about the Dream.

I think it's possible all planets with life have a connection to the "Shadowlands" and the "Lifelands", if you will, as part of the natural cycle of Life and Death, while Azeroth speficially got the Emerald Dream sculpted for it by Eonar, Elune and Freya.

Essentially they tapped into Primal forces of the cosmos to obtain a way to harness the energies of life in defense of the worldsoul. Shaping life, not just continents, so that Azeroth wouldn't stand defenseless against other forces.

That's also why I like to look at Elune as a sort of agent sent by the Light to ensure all of this goes well. Perhaps a naaru or another type of being that administers things on Azeroth.

Maybe from within the Beledar, or the moon. Maybe she's a part of Xal'atath which she has suppressed and won't come to peace with. IDK.

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On a slightly related note, just as the story of the Earth Mother is probably a legend with elements of truth in it, the same might be true for the story of Zao Sunseeker and the Five Suns.

While it probably is trying to explain how the one current sun came to be, it could be revealing to us that there were four other similar celestial objects in the skies above Azeroth, once.

Naaru? Beledar-like vessels?

Was the Beledar shot out of the sky by the Old Gods, or worse the Titans? Does it house 4 Naaru within it, or are there other "Beledars" strewn across Azeroth?

Shit, did they turn into Old Gods? Did the Titans do something really bad?

Are the Old Gods just an illusion, and are they in fact imprisoned Naaru?

I should probably take a step outside for a min.

I get your arguments, really I do. But I think you're overthinking it a bit. I don't like to associate Elune with the Light over Life because A. That kinda goes against what we're told lore-wise. And B. It would mean Velen was more right about her nature than Tyrande, which isn't good, and only serves to slap Night Elf fans in the face even more.

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I wonder if, come The Last Titan, we will see 2 groups of Keepers. One in support of the titans and their goal(s) and the other allying with us. Would be cool to see the Dragon Aspects fight against their "creators" in this way.

For sure Tyr would ally with us, and for sure Odyn would lead the group allied to the titans.

Perhaps a reactivated Archaedas would also ally with us? It's already implied that Azeroth's worldsoul was affecting him.

That would be cool.

I could definitely see Odyn being on "Team Titans", while Tyr, Archaedas, etc are on "Team Azeroth".

[Cheezits]

The more I think about it, the more I agree with the idea that class halls will return in TLT. Not just because of the individual titan themes that line up, but also the setting of Northrend has a lot of different areas that work perfectly for it.

DK- Icecrown & Argus
DH-? & Sargeras
Shaman- Dragonblight/Borean Tundra & Khaz'goroth/Golganeth
Evoker- Dragonblight & Aman'thul/Gorgannon
Mage- Coldarra/Crystalsong & Gorgannon
Rogue - ? & ?
Warrior- Howling Fjord & Aggramar
Hunter- Grizzly Hills & ? (Mim?? I guess if you want to go back to Haiti)
Druid- Sholozar/Zuldrak & Eonar
Priest- ? & ? (Tyr?)
Paladin- ? & ? (Tyr?)

Way too much lining up here of aesthetics and themes for them not to take the opportunity.

[Teriz]

Is there anything more than expansion thematic pointing something towards Tinker type class?
maybe some files? or smt

Gazlowe's new model (11.0.7) is his outfit from HotS;

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think Hodir will be regretful but go with Aman'thul, Mim will side with him for science, Norgannon because of how close the Arcane ties with Order (and also so there is an Arcane-themed villain like in Wrath) then Golganeth is a wild card. Everyone else should side with us from the start or will get there fairly quickly.

Golganeth is basically the ONLY way Kalimdor Horde can get a tie to this story, through the elements/shamanism, so I can see him allying. I guess Khaz too but as I said I think he will get wrecked by Iridikron and maybe get his power stolen so Iri can become Deathwing 2.

For the horde link there is also Aggramar who is more or less the father of the orcs due to him making the Gron on dreanor.

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Is there anything more than expansion thematic pointing something towards Tinker type class?
maybe some files? or smt

There’s nothing at all with even things pointing against it at this point with tech/gnome themed items being put up with the trading post stuff instead of being saved for a class.

[Enrif]

Who would really side with Odyn though, Mabye just Hodir?

Thorim is super close to us, Mimiron is crazy so he could go either way just to test stuff, Freya is all about nature so isn’t likely to fall in line, Archaedas should be loyal to Tyr.

I think all Keepers except Tyr and Archaedas will start at Odyns side. But over the course of the quest we will convince them to join the mortal side. There are 4 Ulduar Keepers, and blizzard will likely split Northrend into 4 zones, so we can have a Keeper in each zone of the story. Eonar for the Sholarzar Basin+Borean Tundra zone, Hodir for the Stormpeaks+Zuldrak zone, Thorim for the Howling Fjyord+Grizzly Hills zone, and Mimiron for the Dragon Blight+Icecrown zone.

[Cheezits]

I think all Keepers except Tyr and Archaedas will start at Odyns side. But over the course of the quest we will convince them to join the mortal side. There are 4 Ulduar Keepers, and blizzard will likely split Northrend into 4 zones, so we can have a Keeper in each zone of the story. Eonar for the Sholarzar Basin+Borean Tundra zone, Hodir for the Stormpeaks+Zuldrak zone, Thorim for the Howling Fjyord+Grizzly Hills zone, and Mimiron for the Dragon Blight+Icecrown zone.

Good call with the 4 zone breakup but I am not certain on Mim for Icecrown. I do think they will blend Icecrown and DB but it will be because of Iridikron, who hates the aspects and also lives under Icecrown.

Personally guessing he will split open Dragonblight and reveal the Path of the Titans/Harrowdeep.

[Enrif]

Good call with the 4 zone breakup but I am not certain on Mim for Icecrown. I do think they will blend Icecrown and DB but it will be because of Iridikron, who hates the aspects and also lives under Icecrown.

Personally guessing he will split open Dragonblight and reveal the Path of the Titans/Harrowdeep.

Well Mimiron is the mechanc of the group, and we know there is something very mechanic in Icecrown. I could also see him staying back in ulduar and getting the stormpeaks and zuldrak zones, and Hodir gets dragonblight+icecrown, but i don't think they would split the sons of hodir from hodir.

oh, that makes me remember, the keepers had all shrines in the stormpeaks, does anyone have a layout of that? that could be used as a guidance!

[Teriz]

There’s nothing at all with even things pointing against it at this point with tech/gnome themed items being put up with the trading post stuff instead of being saved for a class.

Remember when people on here argued nonstop that the "Goblinraid" item wasn't hinting at a Goblin raid and an Undermine patch just a few weeks ago?

History truly repeats itself.

[Cheezits]

Well Mimiron is the mechanc of the group, and we know there is something very mechanic in Icecrown. I could also see him staying back in ulduar and getting the stormpeaks and zuldrak zones, and Hodir gets dragonblight+icecrown, but i don't think they would split the sons of hodir from hodir.

I think if the idea is to recruit a keeper in each zone then Mim may stay back. I can see him staying as an antagonist to the very end OR he is our "in" into Ulduar 2.0.

Freya, Hodir and Thorim make way too much sense as "zone bosses" (they fit the vibes of Northrend the most as well) and then everyone else can be chilling in Ulduar waiting for us. Iridikron would be the ultimate antagonist of the Dragonblight/Icecrown zone unless there's some kind of scourge plot that carries over from Midnight.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think all Keepers except Tyr and Archaedas will start at Odyns side. But over the course of the quest we will convince them to join the mortal side. There are 4 Ulduar Keepers, and blizzard will likely split Northrend into 4 zones, so we can have a Keeper in each zone of the story. Eonar for the Sholarzar Basin+Borean Tundra zone, Hodir for the Stormpeaks+Zuldrak zone, Thorim for the Howling Fjyord+Grizzly Hills zone, and Mimiron for the Dragon Blight+Icecrown zone.

Some of them being flipped during questing would make sense, though I don’t see Thorim doing so after being played by Loken and Yogg and giving us his dog he seems like he’d be a hard liner for not blindly going along.

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Remember when people on here argued nonstop that the "Goblinraid" item wasn't hinting at a Goblin raid and an Undermine patch just a few weeks ago?

History truly repeats itself.

Remeber when you said tinkers would come every expan and then would come mid expan with undermine?

Ya history does repeat it self.

[Enrif]

Some of them being flipped during questing would make sense, though I don’t see Thorim doing so after being played by Loken and Yogg and giving us his dog he seems like he’d be a hard liner for not blindly going along.

Which is why i put Thorim (and Freya) in the starter zones, they are the first to flip once they know what's actually going on.

[Teriz]

Remeber when you said tinkers would come every expan and then would come mid expan with undermine?

Ya history does repeat it self.

You do know that 11.1.5 and 11.1.7 is still mid expansion right?

Also it tracks with the Evoker third spec release (10.1.5).

[Cheezits]

By the way... what would the "new" zones for TLT patches even be?

[Enrif]

I think if the idea is to recruit a keeper in each zone then Mim may stay back. I can see him staying as an antagonist to the very end OR he is our "in" into Ulduar 2.0.

Freya, Hodir and Thorim make way too much sense as "zone bosses" (they fit the vibes of Northrend the most as well) and then everyone else can be chilling in Ulduar waiting for us. Iridikron would be the ultimate antagonist of the Dragonblight/Icecrown zone unless there's some kind of scourge plot that carries over from Midnight.

I don't think Iridikron will be a zone story boss, but rather part of a raid. But the icecrown/dragonblight zones could be a build up for a underground zone i guess, that will eventually end with the Iridikron raid.

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By the way... what would the "new" zones for TLT patches even be?

Azjol'nerub

[Cheezits]

I don't think Iridikron will be a zone story boss, but rather part of a raid. But the icecrown/dragonblight zones could be a build up for a underground zone i guess, that will eventually end with the Iridikron raid.

Maybe it's Khaz as that area's boss then, and then Iri kills him before we can get him on our side.

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Azjol'nerub

Makes sense but way too similar to AK IMO.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Which is why i put Thorim (and Freya) in the starter zones, they are the first to flip once they know what's actually going on.

Would also make sense if he started on our side/neutral in the Fjord and him and his blue lady’s were beaten out of the storm peaks by the giants and Hodir and were fighting them given the bad blood between Thorim and the giants due to loken tricking him.

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You do know that 11.1.5 and 11.1.7 is still mid expansion right?

Also it tracks with the Evoker third spec release (10.1.5).

Ones that don’t come with undermine, which was the point.

[Trazzle]

I know we’ve been talking about this for months now ha but… we’re certainly not seeing LESS signs that a goblin class is coming.

That goblin 1h weapon from “goblinraid” stands out dramatically as an extremely unique icon/art for a 1h wep, one unlike anything we’ve ever seen in game (looks like a claw pack appendages).

I still think Plunderstorm is a sneaky/clever way to play test abilities, we happen to be getting another release of it prior to 11.1, this time with retail client/server integration.

I think the real kicker will be if/when we see heavy gnome involvement/narrative in 11.1.

[Ersula]

Remember when people on here argued nonstop that the "Goblinraid" item wasn't hinting at a Goblin raid and an Undermine patch just a few weeks ago?

History truly repeats itself.

We said it might mean that only one raid boss (and its loot drops) was going to be Goblin themed, just as a possibility. You're using a non-sequitur to suggest a faction leader getting a model update, which happens constantly, means they're going to drop a class mid expansion.

Unlike Augmentation, which was repeatedly referenced in datamining, there's no real evidence there's going to be a new spec or class during this expansion.

[Teriz]

Ones that don’t come with undermine, which was the point.

This is semantics. The argument has always been that Undermine would be 11.1, which gives the Tinker class potential to be slotted in during 11.1.5 and maybe even 11.7. As Augmentation demonstrated, they wouldn't release something mid-expansion during the current raid tier.