Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Golden Yak]

The Titans de-titanizing and returning to Worldsouls is an interesting thought.

I'm betting on Sargeras being the last Titan (he's also the first one ever mentioned in the lore) so the first will be the last.

Azeroth will remain a Worldsoul, and not awaken as a Titan. She will preserve the world instead (I'm predicting that the formation of a Worldsoul into a Titan is ultimately destructive to the planet it's in - Azeroth's awakening would destroy the planet and all life on it.)

The other Titans are gonna die, I think. Though the de-Titanizing is a tantalizing possibility.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I honestly don't get why people are so excited about Iridikron. He's a generally better execution of the "baritone master planner" archetype, but that's about it. The only reason he was that good in Dragonflight was that he had an ensemble to play off of.

[Pyrophax]

The Titans de-titanizing and returning to Worldsouls is an interesting thought.

I'm betting on Sargeras being the last Titan (he's also the first one ever mentioned in the lore) so the first will be the last.

Azeroth will remain a Worldsoul, and not awaken as a Titan. She will preserve the world instead (I'm predicting that the formation of a Worldsoul into a Titan is ultimately destructive to the planet it's in - Azeroth's awakening would destroy the planet and all life on it.)

The other Titans are gonna die, I think. Though the de-Titanizing is a tantalizing possibility.

I rather see other titans get free from Order magic. My theory that every worldsoul has established magic source, but Aman'Thul, who was awoken first convert other titan into Order side.
Just like Light intended to force alignment with it via that large chunks of Light essence. That one with -dar endings. Xenedar, Exodar, The Genedar, Beledar.
Draeneis just find them and use their power to space traveling.
Or Void via Old Gods and knaifu.
Or Life via Sporemounds.
Maybe Constellars are Order agents?

But they remain some of core powers. Like Eonar is clearly Life magic user etc etc. And after TLT, where Pantheon will be disbanded and some of them will be free from Order chains.

Golganneth and Eonar - World Soul of Life domain.
Aman'Thul and Norgannon - Order domain.
Sargeras and Khaz'goroth - Disorder domain.
Aggramar and Amitus (probably) - Light domain.
Argus be reborned as Death World Soul.
Telogrus supposed to be Void World Soul.

And Azeroth is wild card at this rate. I think we should wait and see. Maybe she is at Reality domain?

[Zers Editor]

It would be interesting to have a final battle with Azeroth worldsoul itself as she tries to undo everything the other forces brought onto her with their influence, thinking that we wouldn't mind for her sake, but as that would mean the end of everything on the surface, we fight her. Would also serve as a decent way to subvert on her so far clean and innocent status.

[Golden Yak]

I do like the idea of the worldsoul doing an "Earth Mother," e.g. sort of merging with Azeroth, permeating the land.

Instead of the world being shaped by Order to act as a machine, it enters a golden age teeming with life. Forevermore, Azeroth and the worldsoul are one.

I wonder if they're prepared to take such an important "character" out, though. After all, the desire to destroy, defile or absorb the worldsoul has been a major factor to push the story over the past decade. What could replace that?

That might not exactly stop - I see the Worldsoul as staying where it is, the heart of the world. But if it's 'awoken' as itself, maybe it'll act as a kind of cosmic defense system for the world. Anytime some higher tier cosmic bullshit comes to attack - Void Lords, Sargeras, Titans, whoever - the Prime Worldsoul will drive them away. The whole cosmic scene essentially gets spanked and sent packing.

This would give the setting a chance to get a bit more down to earth. We can focus on local conflicts and mortal politics - dealing with the Arathi Empire and so forth. We don't have to worry about some crazy deity blowing up the entire planet all the time or eating the universe or whatever, the stakes can be a little more personal.

[Foolicious]

I honestly don't get why people are so excited about Iridikron. He's a generally better execution of the "baritone master planner" archetype, but that's about it. The only reason he was that good in Dragonflight was that he had an ensemble to play off of.

I think people really resonated with a villain that thought of the player as a serious threat. Especially after sylvanas and the jailer with their cartoonish "try to stop me" attitude.
He also looks and sounds cool and is deathwing 2.0 so he has that going for him too.

[Pyrophax]

I like where we're going with this. Not sure Sargeras can be tied to Disorder though, since he turned from Order to become chaotic. As far as we know, he wasn't initially. But hey, retcons happen.

I can see it now, Azeroth becoming a Titan before our eyes, against her will, but then in the end she and the others become worldsouls again, drifting happily into space and forming a new constellation in our sky, lol.

I think we just invented a new Path of the Worldsouls feature as well, letting players pick a worldsoul to align with when they reach level 120.

Honestly speaking, though. It would make for a very beautiful and emotional cinematic, watching Eonar break free and becoming a jolly old worldsoul.

But what do we make of Aman'Thul, then? If old lore stands, he's also a worldsoul that became a Titan. Is that part of the propaganda? Is he just a mischievous Order-aligned figure that tricked a bunch of worldsouls into following him on his path to bring Order across the universe?

My theory is - Aman'Thul and Norgannon is initially Order-aligned world-souls, so they remain as they are, considering their powers.
For Sargeras - he was not corrupted, he initially was chaos-aligned, but chained by Aman'Thul's Order magic. Very long battle against Disorder just release his true nature.

[Alanar]

He also looks and sounds cool and is deathwing 2.0 so he has that going for him too.

Subjective. I dont think he looks cool or that deathwing 2.0 is for some reason a good or cool idea. Sorry nah. The incarnates were by default boring. I also think he wont be our last villain.

I feel like we will sort of side with him, when we find the the true intentions of the Titans.

[Joshuaj]

...Guys, food for thought rq?

The Titans likely bullshitted about their whole "worldsoul" origin.

[Timester]

You are almost always on point. It's unfortunate the writers have a vendetta against the Titans. I picture them as the type to unironically use the word sky daddy to disparage God(s) on Twitter and Reddit. They probably developed their media literacy from watching anime, where "God" is always the ultimate evil and needs to be murdered.

Vendetta? Metzen was the one that created the Titans lore in the first place, ever. He is simply finishing the story he started as he always intended (and seeds were planted ever since the beginning).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

...Guys, food for thought rq?

The Titans likely bullshitted about their whole "worldsoul" origin.

We already saw a world soul turn into a “titan” with Argus if pre mature.

[Joshuaj]

I think people really resonated with a villain that thought of the player as a serious threat. Especially after sylvanas and the jailer with their cartoonish "try to stop me" attitude.
He also looks and sounds cool and is deathwing 2.0 so he has that going for him too.

Tbf here, one is the literal Devil who's existed before the Dark Beyond's creation, while the other is a Primal Incarnate who just lost his sister due to her own arrogance.

One is bound to take us more seriously than the other.

[Myrrh]

You act like Iridikron can't empower himself in the future

So, on this - I really had trouble conceptualising how he wouldn't just get smooshed on their return. He was very self-assured and even seems entirely unconcerned about the threat posed to Azeroth by Xal'atath. Then I saw a thread over on reddit yesterday that sparked a thought, and that got me going full bore down a bit of an unhinged rabbit hole of speculation based on TWW titan disc lore drops.

We now know a bit about the Worldcore, the manyfold, and the thraegar phenomenon occurring when the rocky dwarf folk dug a little too deep. The latter being, in effect, a symptom of Azeroth lashing out at the birdcage the titans constructed around it.

We also know that earth-aligned dragons are rather susceptable to underground whispers. Case in point is Iridikron's mirror character - ChinDude and his merry band of tentacles. Iridikron also likes to dig holes in the ground, but rather than growing tentacles in uncomfortable places, he just so happens to be hyperfixated on Azeroth and his goal of freeing it from Titan influence. With excessive force.

Now that we know Azeroth is a) incarcerated by the Titans, and b) not a fan of the fun police, well...

Hear me out. Thraegar. Iridikron. <The Dimonte Dragon>.

Then just toss him into the Worldcore at the heart of Azeroth's power, and I reckon he could punch a Titan or two in the nads. I doubt we'll fight the Titans ourselves though - I reckon ol' stoneface will be a recurring thorn that we ally with the Titans to overcome, but over the patch cadence we start to experience tension over their different set of ethics (inability to feel empathy'll do that). Before the murder hobos turn on them, though, we'll get the surprise drop of our armless buddy's rhinestone reinvigoration and he'll kill Aman'thul or something for shock value. We then have to chase him through the Manyfold and right to the world soul as the finale to the expansion, where we have to fight him in his new role as as the literal avatar of the last titan's power.

[Sondrelk]

So, on this - I really had trouble conceptualising how he wouldn't just get smooshed on their return. He was very self-assured and even seems entirely unconcerned about the threat posed to Azeroth by Xal'atath. Then I saw a thread over on reddit yesterday that sparked a thought, and that got me going full bore down a bit of an unhinged rabbit hole of speculation based on TWW titan disc lore drops.

We now know a bit about the Worldcore, the manyfold, and the thraegar phenomenon occurring when the rocky dwarf folk dug a little too deep. The latter being, in effect, a symptom of Azeroth lashing out at the birdcage the titans constructed around it.

We also know that earth-aligned dragons are rather susceptable to underground whispers. Case in point is Iridikron's mirror character - ChinDude and his merry band of tentacles. Iridikron also likes to dig holes in the ground, but rather than growing tentacles in uncomfortable places, he just so happens to be hyperfixated on Azeroth and his goal of freeing it from Titan influence. With excessive force.

Now that we know Azeroth is a) incarcerated by the Titans, and b) not a fan of the fun police, well...

Hear me out. Thraegar. Iridikron. <The Dimonte Dragon>.

Then just toss him into the Worldcore at the heart of Azeroth's power, and I reckon he could punch a Titan or two in the nads. I doubt we'll fight the Titans ourselves though - I reckon ol' stoneface will be a recurring thorn that we ally with the Titans to overcome, but over the patch cadence we start to experience tension over their different set of ethics (inability to feel empathy'll do that). Before the murder hobos turn on them, though, we'll get the surprise drop of our armless buddy's rhinestone reinvigoration and he'll kill Aman'thul or something for shock value. We then have to chase him through the Manyfold and right to the world soul as the finale to the expansion, where we have to fight him in his new role as as the literal avatar of the last titan's power.

Ooh, that is an interesting theory. Still don't think it would be enough to make him a final boss of three expansions, but cool regardless. Definitely enough to make him a serious threat though.

[Eeram]

I’m at work right now so I can’t really look into this but I had a random thought. Is there any chance the last titan could also be referring to the hearthstone titan? The paladin one I can’t remember her name. But she’s a holy based titan lots of good an virtuous symbolism. Is there any chance we find out she’s the “emperor” for the arathi? They are hyper fixated on the light an what not. It could be what catapults is into that storyline

[Ersula]

I’m at work right now so I can’t really look into this but I had a random thought. Is there any chance the last titan could also be referring to the hearthstone titan? The paladin one I can’t remember her name. But she’s a holy based titan lots of good an virtuous symbolism. Is there any chance we find out she’s the “emperor” for the arathi? They are hyper fixated on the light an what not. It could be what catapults is into that storyline

Maybe, but I think it probably refers to Azeroth, and the other Titans trying to turn her into a Titan. Xal'atath being a part of Azeroth the Titans removed is consistent thematically with what we're learning about the Titans in Dragonflight & the War Within.

Wait, I just realized the previous Fragment quests told us Azeroth isn't just a world soul, she's can create other world souls. So the Last Titan could be Azeroth's offspring.

[Eeram]

Maybe, but I think it probably refers to Azeroth, and the other Titans trying to turn her into a Titan. Xal'atath being a part of Azeroth the Titans removed is consistent thematically with what we're learning about the Titans in Dragonflight & the War Within.

Wait, I just realized the previous Fragment quests told us Azeroth isn't just a world soul, she's can create other world souls. So the Last Titan could be Azeroth's offspring.

Well I feel like sometimes the expansion names could mean multiple things.
Battle for Azeroth was horde vs alliance but it was also us trying to save Azeroth
The war within has multiple meanings behind it
I thought I had more… but maybe not. lol

[Joshuaj]

So, on this - I really had trouble conceptualising how he wouldn't just get smooshed on their return. He was very self-assured and even seems entirely unconcerned about the threat posed to Azeroth by Xal'atath. Then I saw a thread over on reddit yesterday that sparked a thought, and that got me going full bore down a bit of an unhinged rabbit hole of speculation based on TWW titan disc lore drops.

We now know a bit about the Worldcore, the manyfold, and the thraegar phenomenon occurring when the rocky dwarf folk dug a little too deep. The latter being, in effect, a symptom of Azeroth lashing out at the birdcage the titans constructed around it.

We also know that earth-aligned dragons are rather susceptable to underground whispers. Case in point is Iridikron's mirror character - ChinDude and his merry band of tentacles. Iridikron also likes to dig holes in the ground, but rather than growing tentacles in uncomfortable places, he just so happens to be hyperfixated on Azeroth and his goal of freeing it from Titan influence. With excessive force.

Now that we know Azeroth is a) incarcerated by the Titans, and b) not a fan of the fun police, well...

Hear me out. Thraegar. Iridikron. <The Dimonte Dragon>.

Then just toss him into the Worldcore at the heart of Azeroth's power, and I reckon he could punch a Titan or two in the nads. I doubt we'll fight the Titans ourselves though - I reckon ol' stoneface will be a recurring thorn that we ally with the Titans to overcome, but over the patch cadence we start to experience tension over their different set of ethics (inability to feel empathy'll do that). Before the murder hobos turn on them, though, we'll get the surprise drop of our armless buddy's rhinestone reinvigoration and he'll kill Aman'thul or something for shock value. We then have to chase him through the Manyfold and right to the world soul as the finale to the expansion, where we have to fight him in his new role as as the literal avatar of the last titan's power.

That's...exactly what I was implying lmaooo.

Literally nothing is stopping him from consuming the Worldsouls power for himself. Heck, DF literally talks about how Iridikron has an insatiable hunger. Maybe he wants to claim the power for himself in order to dismantle the Titans and all other external forces. Maybe that'll be the thing to basically push him and go "Yeah, this world shall remain primal and natural, and those that dare try to mess with it shall stand against me".

- - - Updated - - -

Like, I get that the Titan's aren't good people, and I'm sure we'll deal with them in the expac, but Iridikron is not a nice guy, and he would definitely not team up with us.

[Thomir]

Vendetta? Metzen was the one that created the Titans lore in the first place, ever. He is simply finishing the story he started as he always intended (and seeds were planted ever since the beginning).

Metzen wrote Chronicles to codify Warcraft lore, in which the Titans were written as benevolent beings. The retcon that it was written from the Titans perspective, and all the revelations in Shadowlands and Dragonflight, were devised when he was in retirement. And he's said himself that he's had very little influence over The War Within so far.

I almost expect a complete trajectory shift starting in Midnight in which the Titans return to being, at least, morally grey.

[Ersula]

And he's said himself that he's had very little influence over The War Within so far.

I almost expect a complete trajectory shift starting in Midnight in which the Titans return to being, at least, morally grey.

You all are taking his comments about the War Within being mostly complete at the time of him *announcing* his position as if he had no influence until that moment. Those were made at Blizzcon & we (retroactively) knew was back working on WoW almost a full year before that.

The Titans & Dragonflights are not Metzen's baby since nearly all that lore was written by the WoW team, not the Warcraft 3 team. He was writing about the history of Draenor & the Scourge while the WoW team was writing all the other lore. I doubt Metzen has any emotional attachment to the Titans.

I think the Titans are already morally grey. Besides the conflict between Aman'thul & Freya, most of these questionable decisions were made by the keepers in the Titan's absence, not the Titans themselves.