Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Idk...

I like speed for my video game mounts.

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So it’s looking promising for the PTR this week then?

Being real, I'd be shocked if it came later than today or tomorrow.

[Sondrelk]

The main reason people want flight is combat avoidance, not speed.

This is true, but there are other ways to avoid combat that doesnt involve the ability to remove ALL combat. Flight paths for instance.

When you have somewhere in the game that is supposed to be fortified and filled with Elites, you shouldnt simply be able to fly over all of them without a care. You should have to go in with some difficulty.
Simply allowing players to engage and disengage from anywhere within a hostile area complete neuters the experience. Just see how boring Azj'kahet is compared to Suramar despite how many similarities there are. Some of it is obviously down to Suramar being a far more realized questing area compared to Azj'kahet, but quite a bit of it is down to stuff like not needing to deal with guards, or needing to use the many secret entrances and teleports within the city. Even getting kicked out has no consequence as it takes seconds to get back to where you were.

Which is the more impactful Silvermoon? The one where you have to go in through the front, use stealth to avoid guards and seeing the city from the ground. Or the one where you mount up and fly to the main castle in the middle within 4 seconds?

[Teriz]

Really cool article giving a nice overview on the history of Undermine in WoW;

https://www.wowhead.com/news/what-is...ew-zone-350576

Also really looking forward to seeing how Undermine develops after it's liberated from Gallywix. I really hope an update to Gadgetzhan is on the table.

[Nymrohd]

This is true, but there are other ways to avoid combat that doesnt involve the ability to remove ALL combat. Flight paths for instance.

When you have somewhere in the game that is supposed to be fortified and filled with Elites, you shouldnt simply be able to fly over all of them without a care. You should have to go in with some difficulty.
Simply allowing players to engage and disengage from anywhere within a hostile area complete neuters the experience. Just see how boring Azj'kahet is compared to Suramar despite how many similarities there are. Some of it is obviously down to Suramar being a far more realized questing area compared to Azj'kahet, but quite a bit of it is down to stuff like not needing to deal with guards, or needing to use the many secret entrances and teleports within the city. Even getting kicked out has no consequence as it takes seconds to get back to where you were.

Which is the more impactful Silvermoon? The one where you have to go in through the front, use stealth to avoid guards and seeing the city from the ground. Or the one where you mount up and fly to the main castle in the middle within 4 seconds?

I think early on they intended Azj'kahet to be more integrated in the questing experience given how many mechanics exist around the guards. Then they realized that with flight it would be pointless and did not proceed with quest design.

[Lady Atia]

I think early on they intended Azj'kahet to be more integrated in the questing experience given how many mechanics exist around the guards. Then they realized that with flight it would be pointless and did not proceed with quest design.

Iirc they originally said that we would get flight only after finishing the main campaign but they quickly backed off from that, as iirc the first build already had flying enabled on alpha.

[Foolicious]

The main reason people want flight is combat avoidance, not speed.

inb4 non tanks can get dazed during DRIVE

[Sondrelk]

Iirc they originally said that we would get flight only after finishing the main campaign but they quickly backed off from that, as iirc the first build already had flying enabled on alpha.

Yeah, it's a bit of a shame. Dornogal especially feels like it was definitely designed with ground mounts in mind, what with the many airships ferrying you to different areas.

[Joshuaj]

Assuming PTR is this week, what day do y'all think the servers will go online?

[Sondrelk]

inb4 non tanks can get dazed during DRIVE

Could always just make the various mount equipment into a toggle instead. One for extra movement speed, one for water walking, one to be immune to dazing. That way the various bonuses classes and specs get are still useful, allowing double bonuses if you play a tank or have water walking already.

[Nymrohd]

I don't see how Khaz Algar would work without dynamic flying on day one. I would have loved a Suramar-like Azj'kahet but it just doesn't work. Can you imagine trying to fool around and explore in Hallowfall and falling of a cliff? Without flight you might have needed half an hour to get back to your quests. Azj'kahet would not even be navigable.

Imo Legion only worked without flight because of all the movement toys; the Brulfist Idol, Emerald Winds, Skyhorn Kite combo effectively gave you limited flight on a short CD. Plus you spent the most time in Suramar which had an extensive teleportation network. The continent was also not that dense with mobs like Draenor was.

[Sondrelk]

I don't see how Khaz Algar would work without dynamic flying on day one. I would have loved a Suramar-like Azj'kahet but it just doesn't work. Can you imagine trying to fool around and explore in Hallowfall and falling of a cliff? Without flight you might have needed half an hour to get back to your quests. Azj'kahet would not even be navigable.

Imo Legion only worked without flight because of all the movement toys; the Brulfist Idol, Emerald Winds, Skyhorn Kite combo effectively gave you limited flight on a short CD. Plus you spent the most time in Suramar which had an extensive teleportation network. The continent was also not that dense with mobs like Draenor was.

Khaz Algar is difficult to imagine without alternative solutions, but it is possible. A single ability could very effectively bridge the gap.
I get that it would be difficult to accept for some people, but at the same time, the current way we play the game is far from ideal.

[Lady Atia]

I don't see how Khaz Algar would work without dynamic flying on day one. I would have loved a Suramar-like Azj'kahet but it just doesn't work. Can you imagine trying to fool around and explore in Hallowfall and falling of a cliff? Without flight you might have needed half an hour to get back to your quests. Azj'kahet would not even be navigable.

Imo Legion only worked without flight because of all the movement toys; the Brulfist Idol, Emerald Winds, Skyhorn Kite combo effectively gave you limited flight on a short CD. Plus you spent the most time in Suramar which had an extensive teleportation network. The continent was also not that dense with mobs like Draenor was.

They gave you the rocket jump for sirens isle so imo that's what would have happened if we didn't had tww flight from the start.

[Sondrelk]

In thinking about it, the only zone which is actually likely to create problems without flying is Hallowfall. And even then mostly because of the possibility of falling down into the lower area in the middle. Most of which could be alleviated by elevators like what you have in Azj'Kahet. If you assume players are not idiots then the odds of falling down is unlikely.

But that is Khaz Algar, which is very vertical. Midnight is almost certainly not. Even assuming a full on remake of just Ghostlands and Eversong, there simply isn't that many mountains to work with. Maybe some around Zul Aman, but that's a stretch. The verticality that does exist in those zones is mostly stuff like towers and such, noke of whom are really improved by being able to fly up immediately. If anything, people would probably just find trying to land on them annoying.

[Joshuaj]

Me awaiting the PTR to launch (Please come today or tomorrow)

[Nymrohd]

If you assume players are not idiots then the odds of falling down is unlikely.

That is a wrong assumption to make for any customer in any industry.

[Sondrelk]

That is a wrong assumption to make for any customer in any industry.

Fair point.
Still, the most likely place to fall is probably in Mereldar itself, so would be easy to create an elevator next to it taking you directly up.

[Cheezits]

I do hope they let EK be decently flat, even if it means it's less fun for dynamic flight. I wouldn't mind geography updates but not a million mountains everywhere, it would honestly ruin the feeling of the zones.

Kalimdor has plenty of mountains and giant trees to play with.

[Cheezits]

The Amani region to the east is a great opportunity for an interesting landscape. Misty forest on hills, make it so!

I kinda hope Northeron's port to the west ends up being something that ramps up over the course of the expansion. Like, we liberate it from the undead while questing maybe. After a while, it has a full invading force arriving by ship from Avaloren.

Not particularly our friends, more like that religious army in D4. Set in their ways, zealous, mighty, and determined to achieve their goal no matter the cost.

Northeron/Lordaeron is probably my most anticipated thing about Midnight. Quel'thalas will be great in HD and I'm excited to see how they do the Amani area, but I'm really looking forward to a new scourge story and continuation of the Forsaken plot. Praying they do something really big with Strathholme.

[Nymrohd]

The Amani region to the east is a great opportunity for an interesting landscape. Misty forest on hills, make it so!

I kinda hope Northeron's port to the west ends up being something that ramps up over the course of the expansion. Like, we liberate it from the undead while questing maybe. After a while, it has a full invading force arriving by ship from Avaloren.

Not particularly our friends, more like that religious army in D4. Set in their ways, zealous, mighty, and determined to achieve their goal no matter the cost.

I absolutely do NOT expect them to do this but for me, I'd have Stratholme be the expansion capital (with Stratholme Bay be the place where everything is located like with Boralus). Then you use Silvermoon for urban questing like Suramar in Legion and release it as a proper HD capital for RPers at the end of the expac.

[milkmustache]

The Amani region to the east is a great opportunity for an interesting landscape. Misty forest on hills, make it so!

I kinda hope Northeron's port to the west ends up being something that ramps up over the course of the expansion. Like, we liberate it from the undead while questing maybe. After a while, it has a full invading force arriving by ship from Avaloren.

Not particularly our friends, more like that religious army in D4. Set in their ways, zealous, mighty, and determined to achieve their goal no matter the cost.

I agree, I think this could be amazing. I keep picturing something very similar to the American PNW, the zone being a solid slope from top to the coast, a dense and misty forest with scattered troll ruins, tree huts and trickling streams.

I'm really curious if we'll get to see the bulk of Avaloren's forces in Midnight or not. It makes sense in a lot of ways. I have a feeling something in 11.1.5 Nightfall will be the inciting action for Midnight and possibly our glimpse at the Arathi Empire in totality. I absolutely think we'll see the Arathi be a part of that "forces of the light" that Metzen talked about (along with the Army of the Light and possibly more?). But I completely agree that this force shouldn't be completely friendly. Maybe we get another renown track out of it, or at the very least some extra forces for the fight, but I don't think that they will be our friends following this conflict. I imagine they would be rather emboldened by their victory over the Void in Renilash which will push further their views of dominance in the name of the Sacred Flame.