Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

So the Dalaran government & the Kirin Tor are officially two different things... Honestly the Silver Covenant & Sunreavers are making even less sense when you think about how they're citizens of Dalaran, but not the actual residential villages back in silverpine, just the flying city, which is essentially a strip mall. I guess that's why they're all going back to Silvermoon next expansion allegedly.

I imagine the Silver Covenent (and our missing Windrunner sister, ya know, the one who was the partner of the late Rhonin, former leader of the Kirin Tor and citizen of Dalaran... and hasn't been seen on Khaz Algar) and Sunreavers will be part of the whole rejoining of the Elven Tribes situation. There's gonna be a lotta cooks in that kitchen, I wonder how it all makes sense.

As for the Kirin Tor specifically, it's been getting far broader in its' ranks since Legion, especially since Dragonflight, so I can imagine that we'll see the Kirin Tor repopulate the world's various schools of magic. Your Scholomances and what not.

Dalaran may have an interesting role to play in Midnight if they revamp further down the Eastern Kingdoms. I imagine with the Stromgarde and Mag'har conflicts from the recent audiobook and some of the human heritage questline that we may see Blizzard develop some more storylines where we're seeing more unrest from different kingdoms/cities amongst all of our large battles. Dalaran citizens deciding to resettle the crater and live a life without the Kirin Tor could be a really interesting thread to follow, their desire to build a city that isn't a moving magical military headquarters.

Dare I say, various human civilizations being unhappy sounds like a brilliant in for the Arathi empire.

[Cheezits]

Dare I say, various human civilizations being unhappy sounds like a brilliant in for the Arathi empire.

I hadn't clocked that, but yeah this is the second plot in TWW (or potential plot, I don't think it's brought up in the questline) of a faction one of the original Alliance kingdoms being pissed off at the Alliance/Horde. First was Stromgarde (to the point there's a named rebel leader and an assassin character at large), now the Kirin Tor are abandoning Dalaran.

Gilneas and Kul Tiras discontent hasn't exactly been shown but I can see easy ways to write that in, Stormwind has the House of Nobles to cause problems, and then Lordaeron can be represented by Scarlets and/or other Humans that want that land back in Midnight. Alterac is MIA but I guess the Syndicate is still around.

Interesting if this is a longterm plot to give humans some much-needed depth as they have been so boring forever. But it could also set dangerous precedent to bulldoze the human kingdoms across EK and just put multi-racial hubs everywhere.

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After playing through the full Undermine campaign there's a few interesting notes, I will try to keep the spoilers to a minimum but I will still tag them. Mostly related to theories from this thread.

-Through a letter, it is hinted that Xal gave the Dark Heart to the Goblins because of Ancient Goblins working on the Dark Heart for Deathwing. Which has been theorized here often.

-The "Ethereals v2" don't appear at all except for a single character (Main Ethereal) while the others use the voidy Legion models, so I don't know why their very customizable files were even in this patch. Due to story reasons it is unlikely that they appear in the raid either. Just devs giving us a Midnight hint, or heavy Ethereal presence in the next patches?

-Orwenya and Alleria are the only non-Goblin connecting hero characters so probably 300% chance of Rootlands for 10.2.

[Joshuaj]

I hadn't clocked that, but yeah this is the second plot in TWW (or potential plot, I don't think it's brought up in the questline) of a faction one of the original Alliance kingdoms being pissed off at the Alliance/Horde. First was Stromgarde (to the point there's a named rebel leader and an assassin character at large), now the Kirin Tor are abandoning Dalaran.

Gilneas and Kul Tiras discontent hasn't exactly been shown but I can see easy ways to write that in, Stormwind has the House of Nobles to cause problems, and then Lordaeron can be represented by Scarlets and/or other Humans that want that land back in Midnight. Alterac is MIA but I guess the Syndicate is still around.

Interesting if this is a longterm plot to give humans some much-needed depth as they have been so boring forever. But it could also set dangerous precedent to bulldoze the human kingdoms across EK and just put multi-racial hubs everywhere.

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After playing through the full Undermine campaign there's a few interesting notes, I will try to keep the spoilers to a minimum but I will still tag them. Mostly related to theories from this thread.

-Through a letter, it is hinted that Xal gave the Dark Heart to the Goblins because of Ancient Goblins working on the Dark Heart for Deathwing. Which has been theorized here often.

-The "Ethereals v2" don't appear at all except for a single character (Main Ethereal) while the others use the voidy Legion models, so I don't know why their very customizable files were even in this patch. Due to story reasons it is unlikely that they appear in the raid either. Just devs giving us a Midnight hint, or heavy Ethereal presence in the next patches?

-Orwenya and Alleria are the only non-Goblin connecting hero characters so probably 300% chance of Rootlands for 10.2.

I can see the Rootlands being 10.2 content. Hopefully the raid will bring us to the Worldsoul. Apparently that was the consensus in a Blizzard panel regarding WoW a while back.

[Cheezits]

I can see the Rootlands being 10.2 content. Hopefully the raid will bring us to the Worldsoul. Apparently that was the consensus in a Blizzard panel regarding WoW a while back.

There's a possibility the last chapter post-raid is called Homecoming which feels like a 500% confirmation.

Also I just noted that it seems that each MSQ character only remains for 1-2 big story chapters. Alleria and Xal will probably be the only ones who star in every patch.

Magni and Moira- 11.0, go home in 11.0.7
Gazlowe- 11.0 and 11.1, probably not 11.2
Orwenya- 11.1, probably 11.2
Anduin- 11.0, probably Nightfall
Faerin- 11.0, probably Nightfall

So the big characters left are Brinthe, Dagran, Alleria and Xal. So I think the main cast for 11.2 will be Alleria, Xal, Brinthe, Dagran and Orwenya, which points to both Rootlands and Worldcore (or some other extension of the titan plot). I would love a nerubian to feature as well, though I'm not sure who it would be.

I think this kind of story structuring is their response to people feeling too spammed by a small group of characters (see BFA and SL) and letting us focus on individuals in specific patches instead of trying and failing to balance them all. Note that I'm not counting Jaina and Thrall in this as they aren't really MSQ characters or characters at all this expansion. Just Ms. Alliance and Mr. Horde.

[micwini]

i tested drive for a bit. i think if you modify your car for top speed + max boost speed the car is just uncontrollably fast. having slower boost and more grip on drifting seems like the way to go when you're driving around the city

overall i like it. im not sure if it's a good candidate to be ported over universally like dragonriding was. theyd have to go thru and clean up basically every zone in the game because the car will get stuck on small geometries like fence posts and small rocks. I definitely enjoy it though and i think it will be fun for 11.1

They should design specific physics on the mounts to counter it. Like how they invented momentum/banking for dragonriding. Like hitting a small object should have you bounce off, not stuck.

[milkmustache]

Gilneas and Kul Tiras discontent hasn't exactly been shown but I can see easy ways to write that in, Stormwind has the House of Nobles to cause problems, and then Lordaeron can be represented by Scarlets and/or other Humans that want that land back in Midnight. Alterac is MIA but I guess the Syndicate is still around.

Interesting if this is a longterm plot to give humans some much-needed depth as they have been so boring forever. But it could also set dangerous precedent to bulldoze the human kingdoms across EK and just put multi-racial hubs everywhere.

I really hope that this is a way for them to fuel the ranks of the Arathi in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Something that the game is desperately missing right now is a true third faction that feels unfriendly. I cannot imagine a situation where the Horde and the Alliance go to war again. The player characters and faction forces all seem to mostly be on the same page, and that doesn't seem likely to fall apart. I don't think the Horde and Alliance will ever merge, but the lines will only keep getting blurrier.

Having discontent among the human kingdoms with the Alliance at the exact time that the line of Arathor reappears as an allegedly massive Empire with imperalistic views tied to a religion is such a 2 + 2 = 4 moment that I'd be shocked if nothing comes of it. If Blizzard was as bold to essentially create a new faction (not playable) on Azeroth that is colonizing the Eastern Kingdoms en masse, I think that would breathe a lot of life into the game where it's missed. The worldbuilding that is there is already incredibly solid, it could work great.

So the big characters left are Brinthe, Dagran, Alleria and Xal. So I think the main cast for 11.2 will be Alleria, Xal, Brinthe, Dagran and Orwenya, which points to both Rootlands and Worldcore (or some other extension of the titan plot). I would love a nerubian to feature as well, though I'm not sure who it would be.

I think this kind of story structuring is their response to people feeling too spammed by a small group of characters (see BFA and SL) and letting us focus on individuals in specific patches instead of trying and failing to balance them all. Note that I'm not counting Jaina and Thrall in this as they aren't really MSQ characters or characters at all this expansion. Just Ms. Alliance and Mr. Horde.

This is a great observation that ties the knot here. I sort of agree re; Jaina and Thrall. I imagine Anduin will return for the final patch, though. Whatever reveal in 11.2 that focuses us on the Sunwell will certainly have him involved, because there's no way that Blizzard passes up on having Anduin march an army up the Dead Scar to save the Sunwell. Anduin gonna Arthas.

[Cheezits]

This is a great observation that ties the knot here. I sort of agree re; Jaina and Thrall. I imagine Anduin will return for the final patch, though. Whatever reveal in 11.2 that focuses us on the Sunwell will certainly have him involved, because there's no way that Blizzard passes up on having Anduin march an army up the Dead Scar to save the Sunwell. Anduin gonna Arthas.

Good point on the Arthas parallel. I actually wonder if Xal's fiddling with Rootlands stuff will be at all important to her plan, or simply tricking the cast and actually taking the DH to the Sunwell to kick off Midnight. This may be a remnant of scrapped early plans before TWS was decided: it would've been a MAJOR twist if we didn't know her true target was Quel'thalas. Or it wasn't, and the Rootlands being the most important thing in the patch was the old story, and the next expansion would be ??????? (probably Avaloren if they continued doing only new areas)

Either way I'm really curious how we "win" in 11.2 but somehow lose so hard that Midnight happens. And there will have to be an obligatory win.

Maybe Nightfall is going to set up some Void secondary enemy for us to beat, as we can't beat Xal? For anyone who wants to know the status of the Dark Heart at the end of 11.1 campaign an ethereal with the new model stole it, and Alleria theorizes Xal sent them when she thought it was taking too long to repair the heart. based on his dialogue he doesn't sound potentially friendly like the Nerubar boss

[milkmustache]

Good point on the Arthas parallel. I actually wonder if Xal's fiddling with Rootlands stuff will be at all important to her plan, or simply tricking the cast and actually taking the DH to the Sunwell to kick off Midnight. This may be a remnant of scrapped early plans before TWS was decided: it would've been a MAJOR twist if we didn't know her true target was Quel'thalas. Or it wasn't, and the Rootlands being the most important thing in the patch was the old story.

Either way I'm really curious how we "win" in 11.2 but somehow lose so hard that Midnight happens. And there will have to be an obligatory win.

Maybe Nightfall is going to set up some Void secondary enemy for us to beat, as we can't beat Xal?

I'm curious where the fight turns from the Worldcore to the Sunwell. 11.2 feels certain to feature the Worldcore in it's raid, but the flip back to Quel'thalas is an interesting pivot. I don't doubt that there'll be reason for it, Blizz has been doing a fair job at carrying over the story from DF to TWW.

But you're right, that's a huge point we don't really have an idea of at the moment. How the hell do we lose when the fight is bound to take place at or near the Worldcore and the World Soul itself?

[Sondrelk]

I am starting to get more confident that 11.2 might actually be a Hallowfall themed, or at least Beledar themed raid. That would at least allow for a smoother pivot to the Sunwell if the Beledar ends up going permanently dark, and that Void energy transfers through all similar crystals all the way to the Sunwell, which is probably going to be revealed the be on top of a similar crystal to the Beledar.

[Joshuaj]

The Sunwell was made from some of the Well of Eternity's waters, and it wasn't at all light-based til after TBC.

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It being built atop a Worldsoul Crystal is possible, but idk. I can see what you're getting at though, and I'm intrigued.

[Sondrelk]

The Sunwell was made from some of the Well of Eternity's waters, and it wasn't at all light-based til after TBC.

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It being built atop a Worldsoul Crystal is possible, but idk. I can see what you're getting at though, and I'm intrigued.

The Sunwell and the possible crystal is definitely not linked unless we go for a retcon. But we do know that it's on top of a Leyline Nexus, which is very easy to retcon into being where a crystal is. Could easily be explained as both cause or effect.

[milkmustache]

The Sunwell was made from some of the Well of Eternity's waters, and it wasn't at all light-based til after TBC.

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It being built atop a Worldsoul Crystal is possible, but idk. I can see what you're getting at though, and I'm intrigued.

Agreed, I definitely think there's potential for more here. I wonder if there could be an Arathi gambit for the Sunwell once the void fails?

I do like the idea of shadow being able to pass through these crystals like a plague amongst another. I'm still not totally sold on them not being shards of light, but I think an infection amongst crystals could be a good parallel to the way the black blood seeps through the soil of the world.

Past that... I'm not sure where or if the crystals come into play in Midnight much.

[Sondrelk]

Agreed, I definitely think there's potential for more here. I wonder if there could be an Arathi gambit for the Sunwell once the void fails?

I do like the idea of shadow being able to pass through these crystals like a plague amongst another. I'm still not totally sold on them not being shards of light, but I think an infection amongst crystals could be a good parallel to the way the black blood seeps through the soil of the world.

Past that... I'm not sure where or if the crystals come into play in Midnight much.

We do know that the crystals from the Beledar are called Resonance crystals, and I wouldnt call it a stretch to say that they could easily pulse the same energy at the same time across all of Azeroth. With Beledar simply being the only place we really see it. (Admittedly Siren Isle probably pokes a hole in this theory, but still)

[Cheezits]

Actually, what if the main plot more or less ends before the expansion reveal next summer? Nightfall in title alone kind of sounds like a Midnight prequel, and it comes out before the expansion reveal. We know from DF that Blizz is now treating mid patches as serious story patches, and if Xal "wins" in 11.1.5 then they could get into the nitty gritty of Midnight's story at reveal, while not feeling like they have to hide things.

This could be why they didn't initially say new zone for 11.2. I'm sure it was going to have a new area... but what if it's not as big as we thought? And the main focus is the raid, which is what they advertised by itself at first?

.... also it makes sense if playable Ethereal models are in a displayable shape this patch if they are going to be revealed this summer. Just realized that.

[Sondrelk]

Actually, what if the main plot more or less ends before the expansion reveal next summer? Nightfall in title alone kind of sounds like a Midnight prequel, and it comes out before the expansion reveal. We know from DF that Blizz is now treating mid patches as serious story patches, and if Xal "wins" in 11.1.5 then they could get into the nitty gritty of Midnight's story at reveal, while not feeling like they have to hide things.

This could be why they didn't initially say new zone for 11.2. I'm sure it was going to have a new area... but what if it's not as big as we thought? And the main focus is the raid, which is what they advertised by itself at first?

That is also a strong possibility. With Nightfall being what I imagine 11.2 could have been, just on a smaller, narrative only scale. With 11.2 proper just being dealing with us getting closer to the World Soul and dealing specifically with the whole Black Blood/Old God storyline.

[Cheezits]

That is also a strong possibility. With Nightfall being what I imagine 11.2 could have been, just on a smaller, narrative only scale. With 11.2 proper just being dealing with us getting closer to the World Soul and dealing specifically with the whole Black Blood/Old God storyline.

Black Blood may be the "clean up" storyline as Xal no longer seems to need it. It's in 11.0, 11.1, and based on Orwenya it will impact the roots of Elun'ahir. It could also mean the Nerubians are tied to it as they were Ascended through the Black Blood (I think?)

Maybe that is our win, that we basically kill off the last remnants of Old God corpse in 11.2, saving Khaz Algar and Azeroth, while Xal wins directly in 11.1.5 and we see the repercussions shortly after in Midnight reveal.

Kind of like Sylvanas ditching BFA. But this time we know why in advance.

[milkmustache]

Black Blood may be the "clean up" storyline as Xal no longer seems to need it. It's in 11.0, 11.1, and based on Orwenya it will impact the roots of Elun'ahir. It could also mean the Nerubians are tied to it as they were Ascended through the Black Blood (I think?)

Maybe that is our win, that we basically kill off the last remnants of Old God corpse in 11.2, saving Khaz Algar and Azeroth, while Xal wins directly in 11.1.5 and we see the repercussions shortly after in Midnight reveal.

Kind of like Sylvanas ditching BFA. But this time we know why in advance.

I wonder if 11.2 will serve the purpose of feeding information for 13.0? I imagine a look into the Worldcore and gaining a larger understanding of what the Manifold is and the Titan's true purpose for Azeroth may feel like an appropriate ending to TWW. There could even be the activation of some sort of beacon meant to reach out to the Titans, which will begin their journey back to Azeroth for 13.0.

I think theere could be a bit of a shakey precedent set if patches start to only serve expansions down the line. I think for TWW it certainly works because we're in the first act of a larger three part story, but if Midnight has patches devoted to laying down many bridges into TLT, there may be some missed opportunities. Although it does feel like we're getting back into a much better version of the builder/spender expansion process with lore.

[Cheezits]

I wonder if 11.2 will serve the purpose of feeding information for 13.0? I imagine a look into the Worldcore and gaining a larger understanding of what the Manifold is and the Titan's true purpose for Azeroth may feel like an appropriate ending to TWW. There could even be the activation of some sort of beacon meant to reach out to the Titans, which will begin their journey back to Azeroth for 13.0.

I think theere could be a bit of a shakey precedent set if patches start to only serve expansions down the line. I think for TWW it certainly works because we're in the first act of a larger three part story, but if Midnight has patches devoted to laying down many bridges into TLT, there may be some missed opportunities. Although it does feel like we're getting back into a much better version of the builder/spender expansion process with lore.

I have a feeling the future bridge in Midnight could be Azshara, who I think deserves her own saga of sorts and could fuck off from Midnight after she has gotten what she wants from the Void. Then she comes back in 14.0 or onward.

There's too much buildup to her and/or water stuff in DF and TWW for her to not appear soon and I also don't think she's the "true villain" of Midnight. And the writing team seems smart enough now to not kill her in a zone questline or patch in Midnight.

[Cheezits]

8. 11.2 is focused on Elun'Ahir, but only to distract us while we prevent the roots, with access to the Worldcore, from corrupting the Worldsoul with black blood. Xal'atath is instead focusing on the Worldcore, waking the Worlssoul into darkness and causing Midnight.

I agree with what most of you posted/think your theories are correct or close to it, except for this one. I don't think the worldsoul is corrupted at the end of TWW, I think that is our "win" of the expansion, likely because the Black Blood is going to corrupt Elun'ahir whether or not Xal has a say in it. If the worldsoul was corrupted at the end the Titans would just appear then instead of TLT.

Now, why Xal has to use Quel'thalas/the Sunwell for her plans, I'm not sure at the moment. But I think that is what she's going to do while we are busy getting rid of the black blood that can corrupt Azeroth (shockingly similar to the Dream patch lol, sounds just like Danuser to repeat plots, and this may be why they whipped up TWS).

EDIT: Unless... the world does fall, Quel'thalas/nearby areas are bubbled off by Light, and that's why it's an expansion zone by itself without them having to worry about updating the rest of the old world.

[Eldryth]

Also I just noted that it seems that each MSQ character only remains for 1-2 big story chapters. Alleria and Xal will probably be the only ones who star in every patch.

Magni and Moira- 11.0, go home in 11.0.7
Gazlowe- 11.0 and 11.1, probably not 11.2
Orwenya- 11.1, probably 11.2
Anduin- 11.0, probably Nightfall
Faerin- 11.0, probably Nightfall

So the big characters left are Brinthe, Dagran, Alleria and Xal. So I think the main cast for 11.2 will be Alleria, Xal, Brinthe, Dagran and Orwenya, which points to both Rootlands and Worldcore (or some other extension of the titan plot). I would love a nerubian to feature as well, though I'm not sure who it would be.

I think this kind of story structuring is their response to people feeling too spammed by a small group of characters (see BFA and SL) and letting us focus on individuals in specific patches instead of trying and failing to balance them all. Note that I'm not counting Jaina and Thrall in this as they aren't really MSQ characters or characters at all this expansion. Just Ms. Alliance and Mr. Horde.

Some of these characters will definitely keep coming back throughout the Saga though. Like, I'd be very surprised if Alleria and Anduin aren't important in Midnight, and with Dagran focusing on studying Titan secrets, I expect him to get a lot of focus in TLT (at this point I kind of suspect that he might get developed into a Tinker hero along with us getting the class)

Go
Either way I'm really curious how we "win" in 11.2 but somehow lose so hard that Midnight happens. And there will have to be an obligatory win.

Maybe Nightfall is going to set up some Void secondary enemy for us to beat, as we can't beat Xal? For anyone who wants to know the status of the Dark Heart at the end of 11.1 campaign an ethereal with the new model stole it, and Alleria theorizes Xal sent them when she thought it was taking too long to repair the heart. based on his dialogue he doesn't sound potentially friendly like the Nerubar boss

My guess is, we kill the elf body she's using now, but for the most part, we just lose. The Hour of Twilight happens, most of the world falls to the Void, and she starts corrupting the Worldsoul. But the Sunwell can fix everything, so we make our last stand in Quel'thalas, protecting it at all costs.

We do know that the crystals from the Beledar are called Resonance crystals, and I wouldnt call it a stretch to say that they could easily pulse the same energy at the same time across all of Azeroth. With Beledar simply being the only place we really see it. (Admittedly Siren Isle probably pokes a hole in this theory, but still)

I'm actually starting to wonder if that's actually the case. If you look past the Light aspects, it becomes just a big, mysterious crystal surrounded by life flourishing in an area where it naturally shouldn't. Sound familiar? Because that fits in surprisingly well with a huge unexplained mystery from the early days of WoW- Un'goro and Sholazar. One of which we'll be conveniently revisiting in The Last Titan (at least, maybe Un'goro too since it's next to Silithus and connected to Sholazar by a waygate).

It's close enough to make me wonder, are all of these crystals actually Light-aligned, or are there a bunch of different types? That could fit well if Azeroth is an independent Worldsoul that isn't fully associated with any one type of magic. Or is Light even Beledar's natural state? The fact that it shifts to Void shows that it can be influenced by outside forces.