Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sure, but again, that's early Warcraft. Blizzard was setting up the fundamental groundwork for those things.

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Also, sure, patches like Argus are cool and all, but those places more-so serve as a means of giving players a glimpse into those cosmic aspects. It's to make players want to see more of that type of stuff. The Dream especially is a good example of that, with it hinting at a greater Domain of Life and everything.

Ya there set up but there not the focus and I think it works better when they compliment the focus of Azeroth instead of trying to be the focus them selfs.

[Joshuaj]

But it's quite literally the opposite. Ion and devs have gone on record to state that things like Argus only work as patches because the player base will easily tire of the same visuals for an entire expansion. Green, green, green. Yes, Argus had Eredath which was a beautiful zone to break up some of the visuals, but it's ultimately the same. Argus works because we'd known the Legion and the Draenei for decades and finally visiting their homeworld was perfect for the final showdown. Yes, Shadowlands had 6 vastly different zones, some that were incredibly well made, but the large issue there was how separate it was from Azeroth.

The marketing for Dragonflight was entirely focused on returning home, returning to Azeroth. That wasn't for the sake of the plot, it was because they had poor reception to Shadowlands and the extended time away from Azeroth, a familiar setting that the players enjoy.

I am someone who is particularly critical of Shadowlands and the cosmology lore because I just did not enjoy it, but my personal opinions aside, the idea of an entire expansion in another cosmic realm may be possible to do by Blizzard, but it is incredibly probable that they would not because the one time they did they had incredibly poor reception. I think they will continue being single zones, whether patch or launch, but not an entire expansion's focus.

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I think calling the Worldsoul Saga the closure of an Azeroth centric era of WoW is such an astronomical leap. "Sentiment about Azeroth being the main focus by Ion" wasn't just some narrative decision. They tried expanding and faced incredible pushback from their audience.

Reminder that a cosmic realm ain't just 1 region. You could easily make it to where a cosmic realm can be full of varied things. I can think of a ton of cool things you could provide the Order Realm, the Light Realm, etc.

Also, Blizzard intended on making players return to Azeroth for a while now. It wasn't JUST because of bad reception.

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Ya there set up but there not the focus and I think it works better when they compliment the focus of Azeroth instead of trying to be the focus them selfs.

I think them being their own settings is fine, so long as the story connects itself with Azeroth in the end. Heck, even as it's own thing, SL involved Azeroth a ton.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But we also spend most of Frozen Throne on Draenor as well. Like I said, half of the whole Warcraft RTS franchise.

Metzen is the one who likes other planets & he's the one that's now in charge. Any sentiment about Azeroth being the main focus of the franchise by Ion was while Metzen was gone & I think that era is over. Seems to me putting closure on that Azeroth centric era of WoW is the point of the Worldsoul Saga.

And the frozen throne is an expansion to the Azeroth focused WC3 and its Azeroth focused story of the lichking. And while I’m not going to bother checking each mission just off memory I wouldn’t buy that it’s mostly on Dreanor given that the night elf scourge and the founding of duratar parts are all on Azeroth as well as parts of the blood elf one.

And Metzen is the one having us revisit old zones on Azeroth for story’s where we could easily go to a void and titan world instead in the WSS.

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I think them being their own settings is fine, so long as the story connects itself with Azeroth in the end. Heck, even as it's own thing, SL involved Azeroth a ton.

I think SL is an example of how absolutely not to do connections to Azeroth.

The force of souls being a secret funnel made for the jailer was the dumbest shit.

[Joshuaj]

And the frozen throne is an expansion to the Azeroth focused WC3 and its Azeroth focused story of the lichking. And while I’m not going to bother checking each mission just off memory I wouldn’t buy that it’s mostly on Dreanor given that the night elf scourge and the founding of duratar parts are all on Azeroth as well as parts of the blood elf one.

And Metzen is the one having us revisit old zones on Azeroth for story’s where we could easily go to a void and titan world instead in the WSS.

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I think SL is an example of how absolutely not to do connections to Azeroth.

The force of souls being a secret funnel made for the jailer was the dumbest shit.

The Forge of Souls reveal is cool in a vacuum, but I will admit, it was kinda dumb when put into context. However, this is more-so an issue of SL both A. Not being built up properly. And B. Recontextualizing old things to fit the current story.
They actually did a similar thing in DF with the Emerald Dream, albeit it's a bit more vague.

With things like the Manifold, the Worldcore, and other potential things, changing old story narratives will likely be less of a problem going forward.

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Meaning, if Order Vs Disorder ends up being a Saga (With Disorder Lords Vs Titans, the potential for Denathrius to likely return (possibly either in hiding, or with a new "Dread Legion"), etc), you could easily connect these new plots to Azeroth without changing much.

[Aucald]

You're right, we don't, but at the same time, its the only named void lord we've had at all, involved with K'aresh, the Voidsong staff from some time back connects Dimensius with the Black Empire and the Twilight Hermit said that they gave it to Xal'atath (doesn't name drop her, fair, but he said it was given to the Harbinger (and it is called the Stave fo the Harbinger, after all) and uses feminine pronouns).

So I mean, it feels pretty weighted in that way, if you ask me.

Dimensius seems like a pretty busy guy, and I find myself kind of hoping to meet one of the other Void Lords as opposed to *every* big Void incursion being Dimensius acting up again. Though Dimensius may be the Void Lords' primary vanguard, so to speak; the one of their number who has the job of establishing footholds in the physical universe whenever and wherever possible.

[milkmustache]

Reminder that a cosmic realm ain't just 1 region. You could easily make it to where a cosmic realm can be full of varied things. I can think of a ton of cool things you could provide the Order Realm, the Light Realm, etc.

Also, Blizzard intended on making players return to Azeroth for a while now. It wasn't JUST because of bad reception.

I understand. I acknowledged that, specifically with Shadowlands as a reference. But the reception from the audience to spending an expansion in a new cosmological realm was backlash. I also understand that Dragonflight was in development far longer than the reception to Shadowlands, but I am specifically referring to the expansion marketing push that was far more focused to the reception of Shadowlands.

[Kiivar86]

Dimensius seems like a pretty busy guy, and I find myself kind of hoping to meet one of the other Void Lords as opposed to *every* big Void incursion being Dimensius acting up again. Though Dimensius may be the Void Lords' primary vanguard, so to speak; the one of their number who has the job of establishing footholds in the physical universe whenever and wherever possible.

I definitely agree there, I'd like to see more than just him.

[Cheezits]

I think Order might take a backseat for a good while after TLT not just because of the Titans maybe going away in TLT, but because several recent expansions have been about Titanforged races and their relations with their creators.

Dragonflight- Dragons
TWW- Algari Earthen
Midnight- ??? (probably not)
TLT- Vrykul, The Keepers, any stormforged beings still existing there

The focus can shift to the races that didn't come from the Titans (most Kalimdor races) as well as the ones less connected to them (Draenei, Orc). This lines up with how Kalimdor is pretty insignificant to TWS despite Gorribal/The Sword being the focal point and may be why Avaloren is stated to be from the WEST despite them being more tied to EK- they will attack Kalimdor first.

Re: Dimensius, I think we may get to know other Void forces as we haven't yet seen Azshara be connected to him. Per DF, we know she is still utilizing the Void to some extent (hiding in the void realm) so if she persists past The Worldsoul Saga she will probably be the vehicle to meet other Void Lords.

Also, N'zoth can come back and point us to others. I don't think he's been tied to K'aresh/Dimensius yet.

[Joshuaj]

I understand. I acknowledged that, specifically with Shadowlands as a reference. But the reception from the audience to spending an expansion in a new cosmological realm was backlash. I also understand that Dragonflight was in development far longer than the reception to Shadowlands, but I am specifically referring to the expansion marketing push that was far more focused to the reception of Shadowlands.

SL would've worked better had it been built up properly, had it been an actually fun expac, and had it...well...been given a good story.

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I think Order might take a backseat for a good while after TLT not just because of the Titans maybe going away in TLT, but because several recent expansions have been about Titanforged races and their relations with their creators.

Dragonflight- Dragons
TWW- Algari Earthen
Midnight- ??? (probably not)
TLT- Vrykul, The Keepers, any stormforged beings still existing there

The focus can shift to the races that didn't come from the Titans (most Kalimdor races) as well as the ones less connected to them (Draenei, Orc). This lines up with how Kalimdor is pretty insignificant to TWS despite Gorribal/The Sword being the focal point and may be why Avaloren is stated to be from the WEST despite them being more tied to EK- they will attack Kalimdor first.

Re: Dimensius, I think we may get to know other Void forces as we haven't yet seen Azshara be connected to him. Per DF, we know she is still utilizing the Void to some extent (hiding in the void realm) so if she persists past The Worldsoul Saga she will probably be the vehicle to meet other Void Lords.

Also, N'zoth can come back and point us to others. I don't think he's been tied to K'aresh/Dimensius yet.

I prefer the idea that the Titans won't be gone per-say, but they'll definitely let Azeroth choose it's own destiny by the end of it all. That's actually part of the reason why I want Order Vs Disorder so bad. Iridikron would be defeated, and the Titans would be back together again, but not only would they be weakened, but there is also no proper force of Disorder scouring the universe anymore.

Imagine the Titans helping us in trying to stop beings that wish to bring anarchy onto Azeroth, that wish to end all forms of government and structure once and for all. I think that would make for some cool plot points.

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Dimensius seems like a pretty busy guy, and I find myself kind of hoping to meet one of the other Void Lords as opposed to *every* big Void incursion being Dimensius acting up again. Though Dimensius may be the Void Lords' primary vanguard, so to speak; the one of their number who has the job of establishing footholds in the physical universe whenever and wherever possible.

Lmao the idea of Dimensius being the Void's version of the Primus or Sargeras is honestly really cool.

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Makes sense, given he is called the "All Devouring".

[Ersula]

And Metzen is the one having us revisit old zones on Azeroth for story’s where we could easily go to a void and titan world instead in the WSS.

It's the Azeroth farewell tour. Good writers don't constantly retred the same stories.

Dimensius seems like a pretty busy guy, and I find myself kind of hoping to meet one of the other Void Lords as opposed to *every* big Void incursion being Dimensius acting up again. Though Dimensius may be the Void Lords' primary vanguard, so to speak; the one of their number who has the job of establishing footholds in the physical universe whenever and wherever possible.

People keep saying Karesh & Dimensius but besides a name drop there's no guarantee that's where we're going, now or ever. It's hard to save a world that's already been destroyed.

[Joshuaj]

It's the Azeroth farewell tour. Good writers don't constantly retred the same stories.

People keep saying Karesh & Dimensius but besides a name drop there's no guarantee that's where we're going, now or ever. It's hard to save a world that's already been destroyed.

Who said anything about us saving K'aresh? Lol

[Cheezits]

I'm kind of curious what the patch area will be inbetween Quel'thalas zones and (likely) K'aresh. I don't think Quel'danas will work as a full patch zone, size change or not.

I guess a surprise Naga area around the coast would work especially if it is a "distraction" from the main questline (Azshara not being the focus until a later expansion). Or Azuremyst? Deadwind Pass? Stratholme zone?

Naga attacking Azuremyst maybe?

[milkmustache]

I'm kind of curious what the patch area will be inbetween Quel'thalas zones and (likely) K'aresh. I don't think Quel'danas will work as a full patch zone, size change or not.

I guess a surprise Naga area around the coast would work especially if it is a "distraction" from the main questline (Azshara not being the focus until a later expansion). Or Azuremyst? Deadwind Pass? Stratholme zone?

Naga attacking Azuremyst maybe?

I'm torn on where Quel'danas fits. It really all depends on the answer of a big question: are we defending Quel'thalas from an impending invasion, or are we liberating an already invaded Quel'thalas?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's the Azeroth farewell tour. Good writers don't constantly retred the same stories.

A good writer doesn’t need to go planet or cosmic hopping to make a good story and more often then not when a series starts doing that the quality goes down hill and they end up rebooting.

Most zones on Azeroth have had a single story told in them or with the cata versions slight variations and changes to those stories. With updates to the maps and there scale so we aren’t just going to the same places in the zones you can tell tons of new story’s with just what we already have on Azeroth yet alone other places we haven’t been to on planet.

[Cheezits]

I'm torn on where Quel'danas fits. It really all depends on the answer of a big question: are we defending Quel'thalas from an impending invasion, or are we liberating an already invaded Quel'thalas?

Either way though, Quel'danas aesthetically is just more Eversong unless it gets terraformed by the void. Quel'danas will most likely be a raid but if Undermine and the Dream are anything to go by the aesthetics of the patch zone will be very unique and doing its own thing.

A big ol' Lordaeron patch is the dream for me unless it's a big part of launch. Maybe Alterac?

Part of my thinking for Azuremyst is that it's TBC, fits with the expansion theme (more than an overall Kalimdor expansion), and is disconnected from Kalimdor so it can work as its own updated instance. Also, like Undermine and Midnight Quel'thalas, it gives Blizz a chance to update an old race's starter/themed area. It would also explain why the new Draenei city was teased in late (so, Metzen era) DF when we most likely wouldn't see it for years and years past TWS. ALSO- like reverse Undermine, it would be an Alliance patch in a Horde themed expansion.

Could be the new Draenei city and surrounding lands + some messed up area to explore, be it naga or void corruption.

[Avikur]

i'm guessing a new build today then before dungeon testing with the changes to M+ they announced?

[milkmustache]

Part of my thinking for Azuremyst is that it's TBC, fits with the expansion theme (more than an overall Kalimdor expansion), and is disconnected from Kalimdor so it can work as its own updated instance. Also, like Undermine and Midnight Quel'thalas, it gives Blizz a chance to update an old race's starter/themed area. It would also explain why the new Draenei city was teased in late (so, Metzen era) DF when we most likely wouldn't see it for years and years past TWS. ALSO- like reverse Undermine, it would be an Alliance patch in a Horde themed expansion.

Could be the new Draenei city and surrounding lands + some messed up area to explore, be it naga or void corruption.

I had been confused on the possibility of an inclusion of Draenei in Midnight, but you're painting a great picture. It could be really cool to see the Lightforged and the Xenedar gearing for battle in Azuremyst just to be fully attacked by the Ethereum, giving us a full battlefield raid.

[PenguinChan]

It's the Azeroth farewell tour. Good writers don't constantly retred the same stories.

(Un[?])fortunately this is just not reality and not what people want. Have you seen the western comic book industry? Have you seen media in general the last 100+ years? People will retread, people will rebuy, and people will continue to consume content they have 10, 20, 30+ years ago again and again if you give it a nice coat of paint and an interesting enough premise. That isn't to say we should ALWAYS do this or encourage it but, I highly doubt this is Azeroth's 'farewell tour' by any means.

In fact with the way Metzen talked about revisiting old areas, it sounds like they're wanting to keep some coherency in including old zones to the story that make sense instead of ignoring them for the sake of new zones to sell in an expansion.

[Lady Atia]

In case you guys didn't realize, you can buy the snake pet for retail which is an improvement over last year (edit: and the fun part, it's green and you can have up to 3 for whatever reason lol). That said, Fern still hasn't appeared yet even though it has a FOS on retail. Wonder when we will get that than?

[Cheezits]

I had been confused on the possibility of an inclusion of Draenei in Midnight, but you're painting a great picture. It could be really cool to see the Lightforged and the Xenedar gearing for battle in Azuremyst just to be fully attacked by the Ethereum, giving us a full battlefield raid.

Another reason I think we'll see Draenei get involved is not only because of Velen's prophecy but also because I think the WoW devs are going to deal with the Vindicar and/or Xenedar. Dalaran was the first instance of what I think will be Blizzard going around and solving "nukes" that have been in place in the world of Azeroth: in BFA everyone was saying "why didn't we use the Vindicaar" etc. So just like Dalaran was capable of solving so many worldly issues, they may have the Void destroy one or more of the Draenei warships.