Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

SMC will have to be neutral because of the Silver Covenant and expansion setting. I feel like they already lampshaded this with that short story and the reuniting elves comment at reveal.

Reuniting elves and all that, sure. But I wouldnt immediately jump to assuming this means Silvermoon will be a neutral hub in perpetuity. For one it would feel a bit odd to have Night Elves take up residence in a city that goes against many of their core beliefs.

And I still think not making Silvermoon a hostile hub is a massive missed opportunity. For one, hostile hubs get a lot more focus and effort than player hubs tend to get.
Secondly, I fear that making Silvermoon the hub would make Midnight far too elf centric. I know the pitch is reuniting the elf tribes. But it's also heavily void themed.

And I still really want Gilneas and Lordaeron to become proper main hubs with all the amenities so that they can be useful in perpetuity, rathern than just being sideshows that we maybe return to once or twice to appreciate how little use they get.

[Limayria]

I really hope in the next expansion or two we end up expanding the scope of delves a lot, I'd love more integration of things like torghast/ visions/islands/scenarios potentially moving to having standard delves not have a distinct "delve companion" at all but have delver gear we ourselves can use ourselves along side an ever green talent tree with choice nodes to allow us to shore up power differences in classes, while simultaneously expanding the companion system for more in depth stuff more in the view of warfronts or islands or MoP scenarios, potentially tying it in with the wod-> slands mission table system but instead of recruiting followers we send on missions, we have allies we hire to unlock special missions with extra rewards. as well as fleshing out the body guard system into a full ally system like the ff14 chocbo or swtor companions

[Sondrelk]

How do you "just double" a zone that needs to seamlessly connect with a different landmass just to the south? Make it make sense.

Also are minimaps all on the same scale?

It's also "Just doubling" the largest zone. For the entire thing you would probably have to at least quadruple or quintuple it.
Quel'thalas would end up looking like it suffers from severe elephantitis.
You could of course just pretend it's not bigger and not show the size on the world map. But you would still see it when flying there. And while you could argue for a loading screen barrier, I feel that of the many implied promises players have latched onto: "remove the loading screen and let us fly to Quel'thalas" is probably one of the bigger ones.

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I really hope in the next expansion or two we end up expanding the scope of delves a lot, I'd love more integration of things like torghast/ visions/islands/scenarios potentially moving to having standard delves not have a distinct "delve companion" at all but have delver gear we ourselves can use ourselves along side an ever green talent tree with choice nodes to allow us to shore up power differences in classes, while simultaneously expanding the companion system for more in depth stuff more in the view of warfronts or islands or MoP scenarios, potentially tying it in with the wod-> slands mission table system but instead of recruiting followers we send on missions, we have allies we hire to unlock special missions with extra rewards. as well as fleshing out the body guard system into a full ally system like the ff14 chocbo or swtor companions

Definitely. For me at least, I think the developers are a bit too focused on Delves as being caves of some kind. It could easily be any kind of area, even portions of the open world like what we had in MoP with the scenarios.
More delves, and probably with varying diffculties so you could have different kinds of challenges without having to always worry that they will have to be balanced around the reward. Something halfway between world quests and current delves would be great to see in some form.

[Khaza-R]

How do you "just double" a zone that needs to seamlessly connect with a different landmass just to the south? Make it make sense.

Also are minimaps all on the same scale?

In all likeliness it probably won't be connected to EK seemlessly, as lame as that might be.

It will probably be some type of veil you can fly through that takes you EK servers.

[Nymrohd]

In all likeliness it probably won't be connected to EK seemlessly, as lame as that might be.

It will probably be some type of veil you can fly through that takes you EK servers.

This is pretty much the biggest issue.
You can absolutely make four new zones and place them in a separate instance but that means sacrificing seamless flight between zones which is what people have been asking since forever.

I'll say again, you can grab EPL+Northeron as a starting zone with Stratholme, combine Ghostlands with Eversong sans Silvermoon, add a large Hills of Maisara zone for the Amani (that existed on every old map of the area) and then have the city of Silvermoon plus IQD as a fourth zone. Those would be large enough to give you the bog standard four zones per expac we've come to expect. But anything less is just not enough.
Alternatively you can combine the existing areas into some Megazone and have the rest of the expansion in some other area accessible from multiple places, going into the Void, going to K'aresh or something similar.

[Enrif]

You say this. But making Silvermoon a hub has some unfortunate implications long term. It would mean making Silvermoon unquestionably a neutral hub in perpetuity when it's always been a Horde hub for one.
Making it an adventure area lets you retake it as the expansion goes. Eventually turning it back into a Horde hub. Very much similar to how Suramar is now a Horde hub by way of the Nighthold.

again this horde nonsense. Silvermoon was longer part of the alliance and friendly to the humans than it was part of the horde. Silvermoon becoming neutral is the most sensical direction forward, even more so for a elven unification with both factions having elves.

Sure. Just double it. Then double or more like triple Ghostlands. Make Zul'aman a full zone. Then all you have left is to somehow reconcile the zones being completely incongrous with the zones south of it. Not to mention the extra zones you would have to somehow bolt on. An underwater zone for Naga would make sense narratively, but the playerbase seems to hate the idea of a zone like Vashj'ir.

Dragon Isles is a bit on the larger side for sure. But if you compare that and EK, you see that you would have to make Quel'thalas the size of all the zones south down to the edge of the Arathi Highlands. And such a size discrepancy seems quite extreme.

You seem to make the error that you think Quel'Thalas will have a seamless connection to the EK. Quel'thalas will more than likely stay in it's own play area and not be part of the EK play area.

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How do you "just double" a zone that needs to seamlessly connect with a different landmass just to the south? Make it make sense.

It doesn't connect to the rest of the EK. Like it doesn't connect currently. They are on separate in game zones

[Nymrohd]

It doesn't connect to the rest of the EK. Like it doesn't connect currently. They are on separate in game zones

So it will be stuck in an instance and there will be . . . a wall in the air that you cannot cross? Cause it IS physically connected to the rest of the continent so unless you shift the zone into the void or something, what you are saying does not work with flying.

[bruxx]

So it will be stuck in an instance and there will be . . . a wall in the air that you cannot cross? Cause it IS physically connected to the rest of the continent so unless you shift the zone into the void or something, what you are saying does not work with flying.

Quel'Thalas DOES have a background of having a massive arcane barrier to isolate itself, which if memory serves the low lvl belves fixed in BC. A void dome, or even just some empty space using the Zaralek/delves style loading screen is also not very hard to imagine at all.

[Enrif]

So it will be stuck in an instance and there will be . . . a wall in the air that you cannot cross? Cause it IS physically connected to the rest of the continent so unless you shift the zone into the void or something, what you are saying does not work with flying.

Go on a shaman or DK and head to the ghostlands and ride west along the coast. Same thing here as it would be with flying: invisible walls.

Midnight Quel'thalas will nearly 100% not be connected to Cata EK.

If they want to make it seamless, it will be made in the future once we actually do a EK revamp, which then will be bolted onto the Midnight Quel'thalas map, instead of bolting Midnight Quel'Thalas onto Cata EK.

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Quel'Thalas DOES have a background of having a massive arcane barrier to isolate itself, which if memory serves the low lvl belves fixed in BC. A void dome, or even just some empty space using the Zaralek/delves style loading screen is also not very hard to imagine at all.

This is the most likely scenario. Either a blockade of some sort or, in the unlikely phase that Midnight QT is connected to Cata EK a Transition zone

[Khaza-R]

Quel'Thalas DOES have a background of having a massive arcane barrier to isolate itself, which if memory serves the low lvl belves fixed in BC. A void dome, or even just some empty space using the Zaralek/delves style loading screen is also not very hard to imagine at all.

This is probably what I think the excuse will be.

We will restore the magic gate around Quel'thalas (and Zul'aman I guess)

It will probably just be some non-intrusive shimmery barrier that if you fly into it plops you back into the EK servers. Maybe by the time MN is released they'll have the tech to make the transition really smooth so its not immersion breaking.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

- A ring-shaped Titan installation in space. Yes, like Halo. Alone it'd be pretty cool just to have a standard zone with the skybox effect of the horizon looping around into the sky. It'd be more impressive if they somehow had the full loop be explorable seamlessly (or faked with airlock). At one point I would've assumed a seamless ring world environment would've been impossible to program into a game until the Outer Wilds DLC just went and did it like it was nothing.

What a fucking genius. I'd never thought of that in WoW, yet titan technology would be a perfect match... I love you.

Halo in WoW? Hell yeah!

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All this makes me wonder if there are other planets besides Azeroth and its 2 satellites in the star system? It would be weird if there weren't.

I'd like an ocean planet, with entire civilizations of sea creatures and life forms never before seen in WoW, and a gas one with only flying creatures. Why not a “dead” planet as an analogy to Mars, where we'd discover survivors living in the depths as well as new types of “demons” aligned with biblical hell... *cough*... Doom...*cough*

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When the new Ethereal models were datamined for 11.1. and how certain armor times were fitting on the skeletons, that cemented my belief that we will be getting playable Ethereal in the future.

You mean their models can wear the players' armor? All the pieces or just a few? Where did you see that? If they can, that definitely makes ethereals a playable race!

Definitely expect to see more variations of them this expansion still, but don't jump as far as equating it with character models.

What do you mean? There will be even more different models than the ones currently listed? How can you tell?

[milkmustache]

You mean their models can wear the players' armor? All the pieces or just a few? Where did you see that? If they can, that definitely makes ethereals a playable race!

According to Keyboardturner on Bluesky, the are unable to wear player armor, so we shouldn't look at this as a certainty for playable races. They go on to suggest that it's not out of question, as Nightbornes had different models for players and NPCs, so this could just be the start of a model overhaul, but at the moment there is nothing to suggest they'll be playable. NPC models since Legion have been made similar to playable races, providing more variation per NPC. So for now a partial bummer, but I still think they're on track.

With that being said, the Ethereals are bound to come in hot and heavy in 11.2. Will this be in a Rootlands patch in whole, or just the 11.2 raid?

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

According to Keyboardturner on Bluesky, the are unable to wear player armor, so we shouldn't look at this as a certainty for playable races. They go on to suggest that it's not out of question, as Nightbornes had different models for players and NPCs, so this could just be the start of a model overhaul, but at the moment there is nothing to suggest they'll be playable. NPC models since Legion have been made similar to playable races, providing more variation per NPC. So for now a partial bummer, but I still think they're on track.

Oh shit. If they can't, it still greatly reduces the chances of them being playable. The dracthyr treatment is a possibility, but it's extremely unpopular. The other possibility is, as you say, the nightborne/zandalari treatment, but that's also highly unlikely, and would mean you'd end up with an ugly DIY model.

By the way, does anyone know why dracthyrs and these NPC models can't wear conventional armor? I've heard it's due to a technology incompatibility. Is this true or false information?

With that being said, the Ethereals are bound to come in hot and heavy in 11.2. Will this be in a Rootlands patch in whole, or just the 11.2 raid?

Ethereals deserve a full patch, for sure.

[Ersula]

Ethereals deserve a full patch, for sure.

The problem is the Ethereals as patch content poses the same problem as that spontaneous Class theory added halfway through the expansion. Allied races get added during expansions all the time; but as potential races Ethereals are completely new. They aren't allied races because they aren't reskins of an existing race.

That's pretty much an expansion feature thing. But they are appearing in a patch update, so that makes me hopeful they might be Midnight Pre-Order Bonus & be playable immediately.

[milkmustache]

The problem is the Ethereals as patch content poses the same problem as that spontaneous Class theory added halfway through the expansion. Allied races get added during expansions all the time; but as potential races Ethereals are completely new. They aren't allied races because they aren't reskins of an existing race.

That's pretty much an expansion feature thing. But they are appearing in a patch update, so that makes me hopeful they might be Midnight Pre-Order Bonus & be playable immediately.

Yea, I think it's pretty evident that no matter what the Ethereals' inclusion in TWW is, they'll be massively featured in Midnight. Between their interactions with the Ren'dorei, the Sin'dorei in Quel'Danas (Trial of Style) and overall void activity, there's plenty of reason to believe they'll both be Xal'ataths footsoldiers and lieutenants along with rebels to the Void.

Good point about AR's and patches, though. I expect Housing to be the big prepatch feature, but I don't see why there couldn't be two.

[FossilFree]

They just need to revamp Azuremyst and Bloodmyst at the same time as Quel'thalas. With Ghostlands, that's 4 zones. Draenei were released alongside blood elves, so it only makes sense to update their zones at the same time (plus, update for flying). The draenei heritage armor quests already teased their new city too.

[milkmustache]

They just need to revamp Azuremyst and Bloodmyst at the same time as Quel'thalas. With Ghostlands, that's 4 zones. Draenei were released alongside blood elves, so it only makes sense to update their zones at the same time (plus, update for flying). The draenei heritage armor quests already teased their new city too.

No way they split the expansion's launch zones into two regions. I think Azuremyst and Bloodmyst could very well be 12.1, but 12.0 will be all Quel'thalas. Eversong/SMC, Ghostlands, Amani, and one more.

[huth]

Interesting image but the overlay also includes quite a large part of Ghostlands (bottom where the text is and the part on the right next to the water. There is also a large body of water on the left and top right that is basically dead space. So the overlay makes Eversong seem way larger than it is.

Red is what the actual zone comprises of. It is much smaller than presented in the initial image.
[IMG]

I think there's even more dead space you can cut off, especially on the east side. Quite a bit of mountains that are used for absolutely nothing, not even random stray mobs.

[Joshuaj]

Yes, the Xel'naga.
Still, they're monsters. Gods even. Not your playable Terrans, Zerg or Protoss.



Where did i say that?

I misread it, but still, even if the Void guys were protagonists, why would that be a problem in cinematics compared to if they were monsters? Lack of facial features can totally work, if the emotion can still be felt VIA body language and whatnot. I mean, shit, have you seen Optimus Prime? In a lot of cases, his face is just the mask with eyes, yet he still conveys emotion perfectly.

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Forsaken? ... hmm, How about Meryl Felstorm, Alonsus Faol, Calia Menethil or Derek Proudmoore? Though, i feel these forsaken only work if it would include the northern eastern kingdoms, which i don't think will be part of midnight.

Hmm, how about a undead elf? a Dark Ranger like Velonara or Death Knight Koltira?

I initially did think they'd include all of Northern EK for Midnight (Which is what I'd love), but the idea of Blizzard expanding Quel'thalas into 4 unique zones is honestly really cool as well. Would LOVE to see lots of towering Blood Elf structures, as their architecture is VERY High Fantasy. Mix that with Light and Void stuff, and you have yourself a peak fantastical setting!

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Oh shit. If they can't, it still greatly reduces the chances of them being playable. The dracthyr treatment is a possibility, but it's extremely unpopular. The other possibility is, as you say, the nightborne/zandalari treatment, but that's also highly unlikely, and would mean you'd end up with an ugly DIY model.

By the way, does anyone know why dracthyrs and these NPC models can't wear conventional armor? I've heard it's due to a technology incompatibility. Is this true or false information?



Ethereals deserve a full patch, for sure.

Give me a broken K'aresh with an Arabic palace as part of the main setting of the final Midnight patch, Blizzard! PLEASE!!! Make the final raid Renilash and have us go from that that Ethereal palace to a realm where the Light and Void realms are clashing with one another! Have us team with the Light Pantheon against Dimensius, or against K'aresh (I like the idea that K'aresh went through a similar ordeal Argus went through, but instead of becoming a Death Titan, it became a Void Lord), even if just this once (Us meeting them in a similar manner we met the Titans would be fitting, ngl. Just have them appear for the final boss, and slowly go from there in future expansions).

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Give me all of this Blizzard, and my life is yours!

[micwini]

I think there's even more dead space you can cut off, especially on the east side. Quite a bit of mountains that are used for absolutely nothing, not even random stray mobs.

Correct, I chose not to, because almost every zone has tall mountains (or in this case wide pillars) of dead space. Thing is, I expect them either to upsize the zones or to include a bunch of other zones like EPL/WPL into it.

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So it will be stuck in an instance and there will be . . . a wall in the air that you cannot cross? Cause it IS physically connected to the rest of the continent so unless you shift the zone into the void or something, what you are saying does not work with flying.

They can just add it on top of the existing EK map, or still have a different map like the current version.
With option 1 I think its going to look weird tho. QT being much bigger than other zones similar in lore size.