Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[micwini]

Unless I missed something, the 11.1 story does not seem to push the general TWW/WS Saga story much forward. It seems like a repetition of 11.0, where some Xal allies once again experiment with Black Blood. At the point when we arrive at the raid, we even have little reason to go into it, beside helping goblin race and finally removing that pest Gallywix. Overall it feels like devs wanted to just explore Undermine.

Yep, the promise of more coherent storytelling has fallen kind of flat. At this point it is unclear where we are going and everything seems kind of tacked on. There is room for side narratives, but not in a main patch. The thing with telling a more coherent story is that everything needs to feed into the main story, especially with the big patches. There is only 2 large patches per expansion now, so they have to count.

[Scyth]

I'm not particularly interested in housing but I do hope we get more than just a Human looking place. I want to have a place that has Belf or Nightborne aesthetics, even better if we have one based off of each race tbh, although I doubt that would make it for launch.

[Makabreska]

Yep, the promise of more coherent storytelling has fallen kind of flat. At this point it is unclear where we are going and everything seems kind of tacked on. There is room for side narratives, but not in a main patch. The thing with telling a more coherent story is that everything needs to feed into the main story, especially with the big patches. There is only 2 large patches per expansion now, so they have to count.

It's not incoherent, it just feels like a side-story, similar to Aberrus. We do have an idea where this is all going from the data-mined campaign and we will have 11.1.5 and 11.1.7 patches to take us there.

[Jaggler]

Of course it's still progressing there story, just not in a major way.
11.0 saw us damaging the Dark Heart and Xal'ataths plans thwarted for now.

11.1 has us investigating the Black Blood again, confirming it is used for more than just evolution juice for the Nerubians. It has us taking up the trail of Xal'atath again who repaired the Dark Heart and establishes the Ethereals as a force outside of the lone solitary one we faced in Nerub'ar palace. It also pushes Orwenya further into the spotlight as a major character.

[Ersula]

This is the most likely scenario. Either a blockade of some sort or, in the unlikely phase that Midnight QT is connected to Cata EK a Transition zone

You know what didn't exist when TBC came out? Phasing. If they're going to update the old world, then they're going to need to finally attach Quelthalas to the rest of the Eastern Kingdoms, and if they're not ready to update the rest of EK in Midnight, then they can just phase it.

I guess the only reason they wouldn't do that is if they actually intend to increase the physical dimensions of the zone. (Which I don't. When they said expand Quelthalas, they didn't mean literally increase its size in a diegetic canon apocalypse. They meant they're going to add island zones around Quelthalas that were always supposed to exist.)

And those NPC characters are based on player models. Look at Garrosh and how much expressive he was in the Siege of Orgrimmar trailer, once he got the new updated player model.

Most of the racial leaders don't participate extensively in stories or cutscenes. And even if they did suddenly give story focus to an Ethereal character, they would simply compensate with body language, like they did with Locus-walker.

My guess is we will start with 5 different house styles, and maybe plots. 2 faction locked + one generic house. With styles and plots unlocked as the expansion goes, starting with core races, then maybe unique ones based on patch content or Allied races.

I doubt housing is going to be "per character" rather than "shared with warband." But the impossible dilemma is that housing seems impossible to do without phasing or instancing it & that's going to piss off a big chunk of people who have the FFXIV ideal of housing in mind.

[Cheezits]

XIV housing is the exception to MMO housing not the rule, and its tech resulted in the highly despised lottery system that would not be possible in WoW without people going nuclear.

[username993720]

Most of the racial leaders don't participate extensively in stories or cutscenes. And even if they did suddenly give story focus to an Ethereal character, they would simply compensate with body language, like they did with Locus-walker.

What are you talking about?
Thrall, Jaina, Anduin, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Genn, Velen, Baine, etc... participated in countless cutscenes.

[Nymrohd]

It's wild to me that people thing FFXIV's housing is any form of ideal. It is one of the worst implementations of housing in an MMORPG. It probably speaks to how few MMOs most people have actually tried.

The real question for housing is, what is it meant to do. Is it all about collectibles? Is it about player creativity? is it about being social? You need to figure what your goal is and how to deliver it. And all that within the severe limitations that come with WoW, mainly a fairly old engine but also a very difficult sense of scale for indoor spaces.

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Of course it's still progressing there story, just not in a major way.
11.0 saw us damaging the Dark Heart and Xal'ataths plans thwarted for now.

11.1 has us investigating the Black Blood again, confirming it is used for more than just evolution juice for the Nerubians. It has us taking up the trail of Xal'atath again who repaired the Dark Heart and establishes the Ethereals as a force outside of the lone solitary one we faced in Nerub'ar palace. It also pushes Orwenya further into the spotlight as a major character.

I think the main issue here is that people focus on the main story; 11.1 is not about that. It is about world building one of the oldest yet unexplored areas of Warcraft and with that building up a core Warcraft race.
I would like a bigger story moment still but I am not mad about finally getting Undermine and having the goblins be the focus of the story.

Also, I still don't care for Xal'atath. I think she is a lame villain and worked far better as a dagger.

[Makorus]

It's wild to me that people thing FFXIV's housing is any form of ideal. It is one of the worst implementations of housing in an MMORPG. It probably speaks to how few MMOs most people have actually tried.

The real question for housing is, what is it meant to do. Is it all about collectibles? Is it about player creativity? is it about being social? You need to figure what your goal is and how to deliver it. And all that within the severe limitations that come with WoW, mainly a fairly old engine but also a very difficult sense of scale for indoor spaces.

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I think the main issue here is that people focus on the main story; 11.1 is not about that. It is about world building one of the oldest yet unexplored areas of Warcraft and with that building up a core Warcraft race.
I would like a bigger story moment still but I am not mad about finally getting Undermine and having the goblins be the focus of the story.

Also, I still don't care for Xal'atath. I think she is a lame villain and worked far better as a dagger.

I'd be more than surprised if player housing is not gonna be just several themed houses (Generic Human house, generic orc house, night elf house, cottage etc.) with different doodads you can use to display a selection of "trophies", akin to the Garrison monuments.

I'd be very surprised if they let you free-place stuff.

[Ersula]

It's wild to me that people thing FFXIV's housing is any form of ideal. It is one of the worst implementations of housing in an MMORPG. It probably speaks to how few MMOs most people have actually tried.

The real question for housing is, what is it meant to do. Is it all about collectibles? Is it about player creativity? is it about being social? You need to figure what your goal is and how to deliver it. And all that within the severe limitations that come with WoW, mainly a fairly old engine but also a very difficult sense of scale for indoor spaces

Which is the strangest part of this. How are blizzard supposed to design something players want when the players don't know exactly what they want.

What are you talking about?
Thrall, Jaina, Anduin, Tyrande, Sylvanas, Genn, Velen, Baine, etc... participated in countless cutscenes.

And Umbric, Erazmin, Geya'rah, Brinthe, etc have not.

[Nymrohd]

Which is the strangest part of this. How are blizzard supposed to design something players want when the players don't know exactly what they want.

The devs ALSO want it. They need to figure out what they want to focus on themselves.
E.g. I'll say ESO's housing was entirely about collections and decorating. Yes, players can actually create houses from nothing in a small few stages but the game POORLY supports that. And the social part has been lacking. They've made it more social with housing tours (you list your house and people can visit it) and players have made it more social with using very large housing plots for guilds (there are some massive houses in ESO so plenty of guildmasters just pick one and leave it open for their entire guilds, adding crafting stations and similar things in it over time). I'd still love housing that could function as a business; inns, taverns and bars or even profession shops.

[milkmustache]

Unless I missed something, the 11.1 story does not seem to push the general TWW/WS Saga story much forward. It seems like a repetition of 11.0, where some Xal allies once again experiment with Black Blood. At the point when we arrive at the raid, we even have little reason to go into it, beside helping goblin race and finally removing that pest Gallywix. Overall it feels like devs wanted to just explore Undermine.

I think that's sort of intentional, but I see what you mean. We are getting some portions of the TWW/WSS story especially with the Dark Heart. This is how I've viewed the story as of now:

• Xal'atath is preparing for something with the Dark Heart and the Black Blood underneath Khaz Algar in mind. She promises power to the Nerubians of Azj'Kahet in exchange for their loyalty. She convinces them to wage a war upon the Horde and the Alliance knowing well that this would feed the nefarious energies within the Black Blood, giving her whatever it is she needs for empowerment within the Dark Heart.
• Her plan is effective, war is waged, and we come out victorious. She nearly empowers the Dark Heart until Alleria damages it.
• Xal'atath leaves, her next step to repair the Dark Heart which seems to be essential to her plans. Since it was created by Neltharion based off of the original Dragon Soul, she decides to utilize the goblins, it's original creators. This comes at a perfect intersection of fate for her, as the unofficial but still defacto leader of overall Goblin society, Gallywix, is in the business of making a deal with anyone he can for more power (partnership with Sylvanas, discussions with the brokers, etc.).
• The various Goblin cartels are very active in the day to day situations of Azeroth, and being of an underground capital, they naturally have found their way to Khaz Algar in pursuit of various opportunities. This is just another intersection of fate for Xal'atath.
• 11.1 comes and now we are bound for Undermine to not just follow the trail of Xal'atath, but to investigate the usage of the Black Blood by the Goblins. We interact with Goblin culture and politics along the way, but our main objective is to understand what they're doing with the Black Blood, the Dark Heart and Xal'atath.

In some ways, yes, it's similar to 11.0's plot beats, but we still haven't gotten those answers. Xal'atath is still moving forward with her plans, she's taking a detour, and we're on her tail. 11.1.5 will be the inciting action for 12.0, and 11.2 will be the closing chapter for 11.0, which will most likely cover the Rootlands and the source of the Black Blood.

The purpose of TWW is for the players and the characters in the story to find that Magni's communication with Azeroth was not circumstantial to Sargeras wounding the world, but we're instead given the realization that all of the cosmic powers are making great gambits for the worldsoul. In the Titan's view, Azeroth is the Prime Worldsoul, making it a prize for every power looking to spread its influence. Khaz Algar just happens to be a massive hub of that happening with the Black Blood, Elun'ahir, Beledar (I'm still banking on it being Naaru affiliated), and the Earthen.

• Xal'atath, Alleria and the empowerment of the Dark Heart is the World Soul Saga thread.
• The Earthen learning the truth of their given purpose from the Titans, the origins and dangers of the Black Blood, and whatever the situation is with the Haranir and Elun'ahir is the Khaz Algar/The War Within thread.

This is all my interpretation with the pacing so far at least. I've been pretty happy with it.

[Khaza-R]

I assume the story is going to pick up a lot in Nightfall.

TWW obviously started out with a different direction so its natural they can only do so much to retrofit the saga story on top of some of it. I think by Nightfall though it will fall into its own.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Decoration is the finish, not the basis. It might be the most important part to you, but it sits on top of a whole host of other systems without which you wouldn't have anything to decorate.

When you want a house, you have to start with the foundation, not the furniture.

Apart from repeating over and over that decoration isn't that important without explaining why, do it or your intervention will be useless. Anyone can come, say “no” and leave without explaining their way of thinking, it's almost trolling.

So, for you, what's more important than housing decoration? That's more relevant and interesting.

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I'd be very surprised if they let you free-place stuff.

Why? We already have toys that we can place freely in the world.

I sincerely believe that people greatly underestimate the game engine, which may be old, but that doesn't mean you can't do anything with it. Especially since they've been updating it non-stop for 20 years. It's literally not the same engine as in 2004.

[Alanar]

Which is the strangest part of this. How are blizzard supposed to design something players want when the players don't know exactly what they want.
.

Best comment so far, because its true.

I have asked about the purpose on housing so many times. You get heated responses back, saying: isnt it obvious? But dont get much more then.. its fun.. or hanging up your trophies.

I also dont expect devs to give players alot of freedom either. I have my money set on: set slots, 2 or so ways to put your carpet and 4 slots for paintings for example. Every single piece of content we got in the past, from garrisons pr even character custumization. It allways feels limited with blizz for some reason. Why would this be different? Anyway, I dont care either way. Its not a feauture for me anyway.

[Sondrelk]

I'd be more than surprised if player housing is not gonna be just several themed houses (Generic Human house, generic orc house, night elf house, cottage etc.) with different doodads you can use to display a selection of "trophies", akin to the Garrison monuments.

I'd be very surprised if they let you free-place stuff.

Being able to freely place stuff (or at least on a grid) is what I think housing will live or die on honestly. No matter how many trophies the devs add, it cannot hope to match the avalanche of doodads that have been added since the game was added.

There needs to be some level of gameplay integrations, otherwise it will be left on the back burner in perpetuity, or worse still, abandoned completely.

It's important for housing to have a clear vision for what it could be, even if it doesn't reach that point to start with. And in my mind that means the house itself being as bare bones as possible to accommodate as much customization as possible.
Secondly there needs to be a level of exclusive furniture given as rewards. Even if it's just as simple as Renown 15 with "generic faction" gives a selection of chairs and tables that were added to the game for that patch.

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Best comment so far, because its true.

I have asked about the purpose on housing so many times. You get heated responses back, saying: isnt it obvious? But dont get much more then.. its fun.. or hanging up your trophies.

I also dont expect devs to give players alot of freedom either. I have my money set on: set slots, 2 or so ways to put your carpet and 4 slots for paintings for example. Every single piece of content we got in the past, from garrisons pr even character custumization. It allways feels limited with blizz for some reason. Why would this be different? Anyway, I dont care either way. Its not a feauture for me anyway.

Given the developers are aware of how anticipated housing is, I wouldn't expect them to slum it. They have been working on this since at least the beginning of DF if we start counting from when they were definitely planning to do it.

Ny guess for how it will work is a grid system with a points limiter to prevent overloading the system.

But really, there needs to be some gameplay integration with regular PvE. Otherwise it will end up a vestigial feature with minimal updates.

[Raetary]

I have asked about the purpose on housing so many times. You get heated responses back, saying: isnt it obvious? But dont get much more then.. its fun.. or hanging up your trophies.

It's a private place that you can customize.

It's purpose is pretty simple, as its the same purpose that the bazillion different new mounts, pets, toys and transmog have that get added each patch.
It's another avenue for customization, adds another layer for wows overall reward structure and an activity to do when not actively progressing.

[SunspotAnims]

It's a private place that you can customize.

It's purpose is pretty simple, as its the same purpose that the bazillion different new mounts, pets, toys and transmog have that get added each patch.
It's another avenue for customization, adds another layer for wows overall reward structure and an activity to do when not actively progressing.

This. Creativity and player expression are fun things, and there are many well-loved games devoted solely to those things. Maybe it doesn't appeal to number chasers, but it was never a feature for them to begin with. There's no point in trying to justify it to the people that "don't see the purpose" and I hope the devs don't try.

I also think people are far underestimating the engine here. I'm pretty sure there are private servers that have achieved customization tools far more robust than what people "think" the engine is limited to.

[Joshuaj]

Best comment so far, because its true.

I have asked about the purpose on housing so many times. You get heated responses back, saying: isnt it obvious? But dont get much more then.. its fun.. or hanging up your trophies.

I also dont expect devs to give players alot of freedom either. I have my money set on: set slots, 2 or so ways to put your carpet and 4 slots for paintings for example. Every single piece of content we got in the past, from garrisons pr even character custumization. It allways feels limited with blizz for some reason. Why would this be different? Anyway, I dont care either way. Its not a feauture for me anyway.

I'm tired of Hearthstones. I saved Azeroth countless times over. The least the folks can do there as a reward is give me my own house! I already got a car with 11.1 lmaooo

[Polybius]

This. Creativity and player expression are fun things, and there are many well-loved games devoted solely to those things. Maybe it doesn't appeal to number chasers, but it was never a feature for them to begin with. There's no point in trying to justify it to the people that "don't see the purpose" and I hope the devs don't try.

I also think people are far underestimating the engine here. I'm pretty sure there are private servers that have achieved customization tools far more robust than what people "think" the engine is limited to.

I second this. The minmaxers are tiresome and if it weren't for devs not giving in to them this game wouldn't have incentives outside of raiding/pvp. The game isn't going to cater to one corner of the gaming sphere, and that's perfectly healthy.