Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

The Naaru would be the "falling star" in this scenario.

What Naaru? Who? If it was a naaru this integral to the story you'd think they would have given us a name by now.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

But again, I disagree. Your interpretation is Archaedes' confusion about sharing this detail equates to him being truthful. I'd argue that it's the opposite, as we are well aware of the Titan's ability to program thoughts into their titanforged. Over the course of the past two expansions we have been fed breadcrumbs about the dishonesty and secrecy of the Titans. I see no reason to believe them at the moment.

It's not an interpretation, it's literally the purpose of these quest sequences to reveal information about Beledar.

Whether you agree or not is irrelevant.

Wouldn't the song from beledar need to be the same as azeroths for a confirmation? Im pretty sure the implication from anduin and the siren isle is that they are not a part of azeroth and are simply repeating/echoing the song for some reason.

What are you talking about? Crystals are literally parts of Azeroth's soul.

Archaedas isn't the only source we have on Beledars origins.
The entire premise of the Hallowfall expedition revolves around a holy vision about a falling star, that the expedition was sent out to find.
Their theology explains it coming from beyond Azeroth, contradicting the Archive message.

Why are you lying? Arathis speak of a star, in the sense of a shining sun, which is what Beledar is. But they never said it came from space or that it crashed.

Beledar also does not look even remotely like any pure Azerite crystal we have seen.
It's not jagged, only ever appears as a crystal while Azerite can be any state of matter, it also lacks the distinct yellow-blue gradient that makes Azeroths power stand out visually.

Because azerite and soul crystals aren't the same thing, and that's also said in-game?

Why do you make such assertions when you obviously don't play the game and just follow snippets of stories on the forums?

[Joshuaj]

What Naaru? Who? If it was a naaru this integral to the story you'd think they would have given us a name by now.

Just a random Naaru. And who's to say we won't know more about it? Beledar is still somewhat a mystery in of itself, since it's generation origins are debated on by 2 contradicting mindsets.

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Wouldn't the song from beledar need to be the same as azeroths for a confirmation? Im pretty sure the implication from anduin and the siren isle is that they are not a part of azeroth and are simply repeating/echoing the song for some reason.

The song Anduin heard from Azeroth is confirmed to be the same song heard from Beledar. This is part of why I believe it's a Naaru infused Worldsoul Crystal.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

This is part of why I believe it's a Naaru infused Worldsoul Crystal.

It's a good idea, but I personally think it's something else that's much more powerful than a Naaru. A member of the Pantheon of Light.

[Raetary]

Why are you lying?

Right, idk what i said for you to become so hostile for no reason, but while the prophecy isn't explored in detail in-game, Blizzard themselves described what its about:

Their mighty sky-fleets were drawn to the caverns beneath Khaz Algar, following the prophecy of a fallen star. The star--which seems to be some kind of vessel of the Light--illuminates the cavern. To the Arathi, its radiance in this once-dark place appeared to be the fulfillment of the prophesized star, but dangers have arisen as the years unfolded.

These guys are a splintered group from that kingdom that received a vision about a falling star, and it took them to Harrowfall. And when they found it - you guys saw the key art for it, it's huge, gigantic - these guys are super devoted to the Light.

Because azerite and soul crystals aren't the same thing, and that's also said in-game?

Yes, i am aware that Azerite and Radiant Remnants/Beledar are not the same thing.
This is why i described the visual difference between the 2 to begin with and then ended the post with this:

What is clear is that there is some as of yet to be discovered connection between Azerite and the crystal.
Even Anduin commented on that, saying that whatever the radiant fragments in the Arathis keyflames are, its not Azerite but something close to it.

[Ersula]

Because azerite and soul crystals aren't the same thing, and that's also said in-game?

Specifically they refer to giant crystal formations being made of Worldsoul's "essence," while Azerite is called Azeroth's crystalized "blood". But it seems to be like those might be the same thing or at least extremely similar.

Kind of like how they explicitly say the Well of Eternity/Sunwell/Nightwell connects Azeroth's leylines, calling those leylines Azeroth's "Bloodstream." I think they just ran out of things to analogize to Azeroth as a body.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Right, idk what i said for you to become so hostile for no reason, but while the prophecy isn't explored in detail in-game, Blizzard themselves described what its about:

This refers to the crystal that falls from the sky in the cave.

Will you continue to act as if Beledar's origin story quests don't exist? Or is the origin of the Thraegar just as bogus after all, just like that story about the worldsoul containment chamber at the center of the planet.

To claim it's wrong because “Titans” when this information contradicts exactly what Titans have told us in the past is silly.

Yes, i am aware that Azerite and Radiant Remnants/Beledar are not the same thing.
This is why i described the visual difference between the 2 to begin with and then ended the post with this:

The unknown link is that Azerite is “blood” and Beledar is soul.

And yes you can see visual similarities, if you look closely Beledar isn't just yellow, there are also shades of blue on the sides like Azerite.

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Specifically they refer to giant crystal formations being made of Worldsoul's "essence," while Azerite is called Azeroth's crystalized "blood". But it seems to be like those might be the same thing or at least extremely similar.

Exactly, it's not quite the same thing but it's similar in some ways, probably due to the fact that both come from Azeroth.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I'm still interested in how the Arathi arrived in Hallowfall. Does that still remain unanswered?

It was something about sailing through the Storming Seas, then there was a "bright light" and then *poof* they are inside the core of the planet.

Perhaps Azeroth's worldsoul utilized its arcane nature and used Mass Teleportation on them.

[Enrif]

I'm still interested in how the Arathi arrived in Hallowfall. Does that still remain unanswered?

It was something about sailing through the Storming Seas, then there was a "bright light" and then *poof* they are inside the core of the planet.

Perhaps Azeroth's worldsoul utilized its arcane nature and used Mass Teleportation on them.

Could also be a (mal)function of the manifold/worldcore? Do we have a time frame when they arrived to see if anything happend during that time that lines up? I think the time they arrived was be able to be followed to be about the time of end of BC? Perhaps when the sunwell was restored with a naaru core? Which could then again give credence to the beledar is a naaru theory, or at least that it reacted to the light infused sunwell?

[milkmustache]

I don't understand how this discussion is turning so hostile in a thread explicitly titled Speculation.

A lot of us are speculating about the involvement of Beledar and the Light with a lot of supported evidence. I think it's incredibly unfair to deny it as a discussion.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Do we have a time frame when they arrived to see if anything happend during that time that lines up?

More than a decade before the events of TWW, according to Wenren Althal in Hallowfall.

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I don't understand how this discussion is turning so hostile in a thread explicitly titled Speculation.

A lot of us are speculating about the involvement of Beledar and the Light with a lot of supported evidence. I think it's incredibly unfair to deny it as a discussion.

Because people have different interpretations of loosely established lore and generally resort to dumb semantics and derailing tangents to prove some obsolete point. It's usually the same suspects, every time. I'm usually one of those suspects.

What one person deems "reasonable" and "likely" usually is considered "outlandish" or "off base" and sometimes "completely fucking wrong" by another.

[Enrif]

More than a decade before the events of TWW, according to Wenren Althal in Hallowfall.

going by the timeline of the wiki, we are in year 42. so around 10 years ago would be year 32 which is legion. But i think that wouldn't make sense, as the day of darkness would have been shortly after they arrived.

In an earlier version of the text from Wenren (bottom of his wiki page) it was stated to be 15 years (still over a decade ago), which would put us at year 27 which is end of BC/start of Wrath.

[Limayria]

Possibly, but I have another idea. It is entirely possible that, before the Titans found Azeroth, the Light battled the Void on the planet and ultimately lost. However, right before they retreated or so, the Light ensured that some of its influence remained on the planet VIA having some of the Naaru infuse themselves within Worldsoul Crystals. One of these crystals would ultimately become Beledar. This would explain both Azeroth's songs coming from the crystal, it being called a "Naaru Crystal" in early developer notes, it being named akin to a Naaru ship, and the way it acts (Since it very much acts like how the Light functioned in the early stages of the Dark Beyond, where its energies served as sources for life to flourish on worlds and whatnot).

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Light's Pantheon and Order's Pantheon working together would make sense, 100%. Heck, Elune worked with both the Titans and the Light, and the Primus has memories of the Titans and knows of Elune's role in the cosmos, would only make sense for Light, Death, Life, and Order to work with eachother in that regard.

Heck, Life, Order, and Light working together could explain Mu'sha, An'she, and Lo'sho.

How? Simple. I think they're Naaru. Not only that, I think they were sent to protect Azeroth's Sun and Moons for a specific purpose. What purpose? Dunno, but I have a tinfoil hat theory in mind. And if you're wondering, yes, I do think us going to Azeroths Sun and Moons would make for a killer expansion.

I think it's going to end up with light/order and void/disorder strongly connected, then with death loosely connected to light/order and life loosely connected to void/disorder but life and death being closely connected to each other and Primus knowing of Elune because she was an envoy to the death realm, and the light invasion in revendreath was because of the dreadlords working with the void/ the legion

the void and life connection is mostly related to the curse of flesh and how converting semi-living constructs to full living beings seems to convey free will and how free will is an enemy of the light/order one time line paradigm as we see that the timeline must be policed and preserved against beings with free will changing it

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I'm just a little irritated that most people don't seem to take our current knowledge into consideration. Some claim that the information shared by Archaedas is false because “Titans” when in fact it contradicts everything the Titans have told us about history and their intentions. These are obviously revelations, and yet people act as if they simply don't exist. I honestly don't see the point of “speculating” on the worldsoul saga if you only take what suits your wishful thinking. Otherwise, I too can continue to speculate and claim that the crystal isn't a crystal and that it's the tip of Sargeras' sword, while not giving a damn about established tradition (that's not what I think, I've always found that theory nonsensical). But whatever.

[Joshuaj]

It's a good idea, but I personally think it's something else that's much more powerful than a Naaru. A member of the Pantheon of Light.

I think that's a bit much. I wouldn't expect us to see the Light Pantheon til maybe the end of Midnight.

[huth]

going by the timeline of the wiki, we are in year 42. so around 10 years ago would be year 32 which is legion. But i think that wouldn't make sense, as the day of darkness would have been shortly after they arrived.

In an earlier version of the text from Wenren (bottom of his wiki page) it was stated to be 15 years (still over a decade ago), which would put us at year 27 which is end of BC/start of Wrath.

10 years isn't more than a decade. 10 years is exactly a decade. The way it's stated it could be up to about 17 years (after you'd probably say "almost two decades").

They definitely had a few years to establish themself before the Day of Darkness.

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Some claim that the information shared by Archaedas is false because “Titans” when in fact it contradicts everything the Titans have told us about history and their intentions. These are obviously revelations, and yet people act as if they simply don't exist.

Not pointing any fingers at anybody in particular, but there are many people here who pretend to engage honestly/genuine while simultaneously operating this way: going about story/lore discussion while being purposely ignorant to established facts within the story/lore. Many such cases happen on the Lore sub-forum and most of the offenders have been banned or just don't post anymore.

There is a fine line of wishful hoping and sharing one's headcanon about things yet to happen or hoping to happen... and arguing it an established fact.

I would recommend you simply call out those who engage in bad faith, and let the rest take notice. You kind of lose the soul of the discussion if you focus too much on the semantics of possible outcomes.

[Enrif]

10 years isn't more than a decade. 10 years is exactly a decade. The way it's stated it could be up to about 17 years (after you'd probably say "almost two decades").

They definitely had a few years to establish themself before the Day of Darkness.

More than a decade could for some people mean 10 years and 1 day. but i guess 11 to 18 years is a possibility. Still, the fact that they used an exact number in the beta is interesting. 15 years. So the writers had likely a specific event in mind that happend 15 years ago.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

More than a decade could for some people mean 10 years and 1 day. but i guess 11 to 18 years is a possibility. Still, the fact that they used an exact number in the beta is interesting. 15 years. So the writers had likely a specific event in mind that happend 15 years ago.

I was thinking something similar, unless they want to keep the air of mystery around the Hallowfall Arathi alive... and to keep things loose for them to add later on.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I think that's a bit much. I wouldn't expect us to see the Light Pantheon til maybe the end of Midnight.

Well, the crystal is big, much bigger than any naarus we've seen before, it looks very special and much more powerful. Let me explain.

Cosmic forces are trying to take over Azeroth somehow, right? Dimensius, a void lord, attacked K'aresh himself. Zovaal directly attacked the worldsoul, and the Titans are also trying to get their hands on it.

The question is, why? To gain the upper hand in the eternal war of balance of power, presumably.

If you've noticed, they're always pantheons. The Light probably also tried to take over the worldsoul at one time, perhaps even before the Black Empire existed. Maybe they came along afterwards, saw that the Light had already found Azeroth before them and went to war and won. Then came the Titans, and their own era arrived.

But then, what is Beledar? If there was an era of Light before the Void, it's possible that one of the pantheon members tried to influence the worldsoul to enter our physical plane. And that would be Beledar.