Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

why there are Leylines on Draenor despite minimal Titan interference.

This is a fair point. We know that draenor also had leylines. But we also know it had titan interference. But as far as we know, there were no titan installations on draenor.

Then again, draenor had no world soul. So, perhaps leylines are not linked to world souls, but are simple arcane conjunctions, like elements, species and other things that can appear on any world.

[Sondrelk]

This is a fair point. We know that draenor also had leylines. But we also know it had titan interference. But as far as we know, there were no titan installations on draenor.

Then again, draenor had no world soul. So, perhaps leylines are not linked to world souls, but are simple arcane conjunctions, like elements, species and other things that can appear on any world.

Leylines are generally a bit of an anomaly with how we understand the WoW universe to work at this point honestly. It's a clearly Arcane energy that only makes sense if we assume Arcane to be a fundamental feature of the universe, which it clearly isnt comparatively to other forces like Light, Void, etc.

It's clearly planetary energy of some kind, which would explain why even natural features of a planet is generally above Ley Line nexuses, like what the Throne of the Elements in Nagrand is.
The most logical explanation then is of course that World Souls are separate from their planets, which does make some sense. But which also raises a whole lot of queestion regarding why a World Soul has so much influence over a planet.

[Thomir]

that's the first time i hear that the well of eternity was gold in color

It was probably silver / blue.

[Viridiel]

i thought about that as well. But that would mean azeroth has two different types of "blood", the golden stuff that beledar supposedly is made of, and the purple leylines?

I find that to be quite sensible. You could also argue that the roots of Elun'ahir and the bodies of the Old Gods also constitute a type of lifeblood for the planet, captured by a particular force. The mana leylines we know are her lifeblood captured by Order.

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Leylines are generally a bit of an anomaly with how we understand the WoW universe to work at this point honestly. It's a clearly Arcane energy that only makes sense if we assume Arcane to be a fundamental feature of the universe, which it clearly isnt comparatively to other forces like Light, Void, etc.

It's clearly planetary energy of some kind, which would explain why even natural features of a planet is generally above Ley Line nexuses, like what the Throne of the Elements in Nagrand is.
The most logical explanation then is of course that World Souls are separate from their planets, which does make some sense. But which also raises a whole lot of queestion regarding why a World Soul has so much influence over a planet.

It's always possible that every planet originally has a worldsoul, but the ones that are quiet have either evaporated or died and gone to the Shadowlands. It would definitely make sense in the case of Draenor since it had a massive overabundance of life energy (the other half of the Great Cycle).

There's a LOT of room for theorising.

[Auxis]

Definetly. It feels that way because no one is playing. M+ was doomed from the start and dead after two months, mythic raiding is on its last leg. Siren isle is fine. But no one came back just for this. Especially since the ring was locked for six weeks and it was the first patch in years without any class changes.

It also doesn't help that we still have no official release date for 11.1 which makes it feels like this season will run forever.


Lightning rod was changed a bit later than the other visuals so in most of these videos you see the old animation. It's different now on the ptr. A bit more subtle and less 2d like the new lightning bolt.

Interesting. I hope it's not too subtle. I liked seeing the lightning bolts coming from the sky.

[Foolicious]

Interesting. I hope it's not too subtle. I liked seeing the lightning bolts coming from the sky.

Made some screenshots to compare. And to be fair the new animation takes just a little longer than the old one so its not fully captured. But it gives you a pretty good picture what to expect. I have been pretty harsh on shaman updates this far and i will continue to play one in 11.1 anyway, so i just don't say what i think about the change.
https://imgur.com/gallery/lightning-...vs-old-GkBoOpV

[Joshuaj]

Yes, but the Well of Eternity was also connected to Azeroth's Leylines & that was gold. Color doesn't mean much.

The Well of Eternity was blue prior to the War of the Ancients. Chronicle states that Azeroth's lifeblood was always arcane, but ngl to you, I kinda prefer the idea that the Titans + their creations infused Azeroth with arcane energies VIA the Manifold, which is why her lifeblood has arcane within it. Of course, this is speculation on my end, but if this is true, then Chronicle's take on the Well of Eternity was sort of bullshit, and the Keepers did more than just calm Azeroth's "arcane blood".

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Leylines are generally a bit of an anomaly with how we understand the WoW universe to work at this point honestly. It's a clearly Arcane energy that only makes sense if we assume Arcane to be a fundamental feature of the universe, which it clearly isnt comparatively to other forces like Light, Void, etc.

It's clearly planetary energy of some kind, which would explain why even natural features of a planet is generally above Ley Line nexuses, like what the Throne of the Elements in Nagrand is.
The most logical explanation then is of course that World Souls are separate from their planets, which does make some sense. But which also raises a whole lot of queestion regarding why a World Soul has so much influence over a planet.

Leylines are most likely utilized by the forces of Order. For Azeroth specifically, you can just argue leylines were likely made as a connective tissue for the Manifold.

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Made some screenshots to compare. And to be fair the new animation takes just a little longer than the old one so its not fully captured. But it gives you a pretty good picture what to expect. I have been pretty harsh on shaman updates this far and i will continue to play one in 11.1 anyway, so i just don't say what i think about the change.
https://imgur.com/gallery/lightning-...vs-old-GkBoOpV

*Cries* This shit is trash...

[Ersula]

Leylines are most likely utilized by the forces of Order. For Azeroth specifically, you can just argue leylines were likely made as a connective tissue for the Manifold.

How does that explain Draenor having Leylines? The Titans never built anything there.

[Sondrelk]

How does that explain Draenor having Leylines? The Titans never built anything there.

You could argue that Leylines are inherent to planets, but Arcane Leylines are artificially made such by the Titans.

[Ersula]

You could argue that Leylines are inherent to planets, but Arcane Leylines are artificially made such by the Titans.

It seems like there is an abundance of information that the internal mechanisms of Azeroth involve all different flavors of magic & energy but people are ignoring that blatant observation to make claims about Azeroth's cosmic affiliation.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

chronicle I, pg 121. "atop ancient Amani ruins--ruins still considered hallowed ground by the trolls."

For something to be hallowed ground, either something sanctified had been built there in the past or something has been interred there.

"Hallowed" doesn't necessarily mean that. It can mean (and I'm pretty sure this is the case here) anything held in high regard/revered by/honored greatly. The Amani trolls have always been described as hold their territory in this way.

[TheWizardFan88]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Sanctified_Crystal

I wonder if the Beledar did the same and sorta... stores the essence of an Old God or something. Probably not.

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Also, does anybody know what the lore is for the Qiraji resonating crystals of AQ?

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This is a neat little quest from Jewelcrafting in Northrend. Create an item and ship it to Undermine.

But what's it made from?

- Shadow Crystal
- Sun Crystal

Funny how Sun and Shadow are treated as each other's opposites, here.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Shipme...ting_Sun_Curio

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Qiraji rebuilded Ahn'qiraj after they took over the Titan facility. As far as the Crystals go they might mostly likely be part of the Black Empire look.

[Joshuaj]

How does that explain Draenor having Leylines? The Titans never built anything there.

For Draenor? Simple. Draenor is full of Life, Elemental, and Spiritual magics. The Titans see those energies and beings as chaotic. Ley-Lines are put in place to ensure the energies and beings are stabilized. After these energies and beings are stabilized, the Titans experiment on them and whatnot. Of course, all of this would have to occur after Aggramar made the Grond.

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Draenor was one of those abnormal worlds. Had no Worldsoul, and it was packed with the element of Spirit.

[Ersula]

For Draenor? Simple. Draenor is full of Life, Elemental, and Spiritual magics. The Titans see those energies and beings as chaotic. Ley-Lines are put in place to ensure the energies and beings are stabilized. After these energies and beings are stabilized, the Titans experiment on them and whatnot. Of course, all of this would have to occur after Aggramar made the Grond.

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Draenor was one of those abnormal worlds. Had no Worldsoul, and it was packed with the element of Spirit.

But how do they do that if they never built anything there. The Titan's powers are limited through technology. They need to actually build something in order to affect an entire planet. They didn't build all these titan facilities for fun.

[Joshuaj]

But how do they do that if they never built anything there. The Titan's powers are limited through technology. They need to actually build something in order to affect an entire planet. They didn't build all these titan facilities for fun.

...The Titans are the cosmic embodiments of the cosmic force of Order. They are most definitely not limited through technology. Aggramar made the Grond just fine without the need of mere machinery.

[Ersula]

...The Titans are the cosmic embodiments of the cosmic force of Order. They are most definitely not limited through technology. Aggramar made the Grond just fine without the need of mere machinery.

The Grond were the result of Aggramar summoning an elemental & the natural forces going horribly wrong. Summoning an elemental is something everyone can do in this setting. Radically different than creating magical streams covering the planet. The Titans are not Gods, they're actually extremely limited.

I don't see any reason to think leylines aren't naturally occurring.

[Joshuaj]

The Grond were the result of Aggramar summoning an elemental & the natural forces going horribly wrong. Summoning an elemental is something everyone can do in this setting. Radically different than creating magical streams covering the planet. The Titans are not Gods, they're actually extremely limited.

I don't see any reason to think leylines aren't naturally occurring.

He never made an elemental. I'm reading Chronicle 2 right now, and it literally states that he wove the energies of Air, Water, Earth, and Fire into a massive storm. These energies would clash into mountains and essentially bring them to life. Also, Aggramar wanted to stop the Evergrowth himself, but his power was so great, that he feared he would accidentally shatter the planet, which is why he created Grond to begin with.

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He never summoned an elemental. He literally used the powers of the 4 Elements himself to create a massive elemental being. Creating an elemental and summoning one are entirely different beasts, especially when it comes to the size and power of them.
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Forges like the ones on Azeroth exist to serve a purpose while the Titans were busy with other things. It's a bit similar to the Progenitor forges, except the Progenitors appear to be far less "willing" to be active in their own design.

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Also, "the Titans are not gods" is basically like saying Elune's not a goddess. It's wrong in terms of the current lore. If Elune is part of the Life Pantheon and can be called a goddess, there's no reason to argue otherwise for the Pantheon of Order.

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Ffs, the term "Pantheon" already screams the notion that they're gods.

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Btw, I'm reading this further, and Grond was a fucking beast! This entity alone carved out seas, mountains, and essentially forged Draenor into what is was Pre-Burning Legion. He basically did what much of the Titanforged did all on its lonesome. And this was just VIA Aggramar waving his hand LMAOOO

Granted, I've seen greater feats from other non-Titan characters, but my point is that the Titans are very much not carried by their technology.

[Ersula]

He never made an elemental. I'm reading Chronicle 2 right now, and it literally states that he wove the energies of Air, Water, Earth, and Fire into a massive storm. These energies would clash into mountains and essentially bring them to life.

That's literally how mages & shaman summon elementals my guy.

[Joshuaj]

That's literally how mages & shaman summon elementals my guy.

No? Elementals are summoned from somewhere else. Chronicle never states that Aggramar summoned the elemental. It just states he used elemental magics to create it.

[Valysar]

Are there any spells that never received any visual updates? Maybe Cone of Cold ?