Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enexa von der Exodar]

No, an actual world revamp. Not two HD zones and a separate expansion region. Unless we're calling WoD and BfA revamps.

Who knows what happens after the world soul saga... Maybe after T-L-T we get some T-N-T (shoved deep into bootybay) and all of a sudden Azeroth explodes into pieces, forming a new Outland 2.0. There you have your "world revamp".

Oh.. nvm I'm prolly really bad at game design, have some mercy dear lord :angel emoj:

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Maybe when he pulls out his "sword" (yea THAT sword) she will just explode... who knows.

[Hitei]

You could def play most classes on a controller, just using each shoulder button and the dpad for cross bars is 40 hot keys, with the potential for multi shoulder button combos or add shoulder button combos bringing us to 72 keybinds (I might be off? L1, r1, l2, r2, l1+r1,l1+r2, l2+r1,/2+r2 and then the 4 face and dpad buttons for each combo )

That works for like... LFR where you are being carried, but I really don't see regular run of the mill players hitting those buttons once a global while also moving out of AoE, lining up complex mechanics, cleansing debuffs, selecting specific mobs in a pack to interrupt, etc. Even putting that aside, there is a very large gap between "possible" and shippable quality. I can't see them putting out a game where, on console, you are expected to be spammy wacky button combos just to perform your regular rotation. I just don't think that's a particularly marketable game.

[Enexa von der Exodar]

You could def play most classes on a controller, just using each shoulder button and the dpad for cross bars is 40 hot keys, with the potential for multi shoulder button combos or add shoulder button combos bringing us to 72 keybinds (I might be off? L1, r1, l2, r2, l1+r1,l1+r2, l2+r1,/2+r2 and then the 4 face and dpad buttons for each combo )

I agree, you could - but seriously, who would do that on xbox? that sounds terribly complex for a game clearly targeted at a "wider" audience.

Performance and stuff would be a bigger hurdle I think, but I could see official game pad support rolling out soon, hopefully with the ability to cast all ground targeted spells at your target as well

I imagine quick priority target changing to be a nightmare with a controller. Either you have to be real quick zapping trough the mobs to your desired target, or you ought to end up using a mouse again. Well...

I do think raiding or m+ with out add ons could be problematic especially for some classes, that really benefit from tracking weak auras and such, but that's something that could be designed around or mitigated in some way

If you want to be competitive in the elite bracket, and we're talking way above 3,5k m+ score for example, then yes I could see the need for some very specific baked-in addons because there even tiny mistakes can mean a bricked key. But again, who would want to play at such a high stakes level on console... not sure.

There are exceptions of course, but I always imagine Xbox gameplay to be targeted at those who prefer a more relaxed experience, sitting chilly on a couch. I have both Xbox-X and PC, and I always find it a little more relaxing playing games with a controller (sacrificing some of the versatility of a MMOmouse+keyboard).
... both have their advantages and disadvantages.

There's surely work to be done before something complex like WoW would launch on console.

[Makabreska]

That works for like... LFR where you are being carried, but I really don't see regular run of the mill players hitting those buttons once a global while also moving out of AoE, lining up complex mechanics, cleansing debuffs, selecting specific mobs in a pack to interrupt, etc. Even putting that aside, there is a very large gap between "possible" and shippable quality. I can't see them putting out a game where, on console, you are expected to be spammy wacky button combos just to perform your regular rotation. I just don't think that's a particularly marketable game.

Yup. Peeps focus on addons and button bloat (still very valid), but completely forget that a gamepad has no chance in competing with keyboard and mouse. Precise character movement, snap target switching, how would healers even quickly pick people in raid frames to spot heal/dispell them?

Good luck with entering to any half-serious content like that.

[Lady Atia]

Yup. Peeps focus on addons and button bloat (still very valid), but completely forget that a gamepad has no chance in competing with keyboard and mouse. Precise character movement, snap target switching, how would healers even quickly pick people in raid frames to spot heal/dispell them?

Good luck with entering to any half-serious content like that.

I can be wrong, but I thought you can use a keyboard and mouse with your x box now? Just because WoW would run on a console doesn't mean you have to play with a controller (and you totally can already, especially classic or stuff like remix / timewalking).

[Makabreska]

I can be wrong, but I thought you can use a keyboard and mouse with your x box now? Just because WoW would run on a console doesn't mean you have to play with a controller (and you totally can already, especially classic or stuff like remix / timewalking).

Assuming it's true, that would defeat a big aspect of playing on consoles - crashing on your couch with a gamepad. Peeps would suddenly have to set a table for keyboard and mouse, and at that point they could just switch to PCs.

And sure, you could play super easy content, but how does that sound? "Buy WoW on consoles, but care not go any higher than Timewalking!"

[Enexa von der Exodar]

Precise character movement, snap target switching, how would healers even quickly pick people in raid frames to spot heal/dispell them?
Good luck with entering to any half-serious content like that.

Exactly that. WoW would have to be a totally different game to be enjoyable on console that's for sure. It was never made for console-support in mind, although it'd be interesting to see what Blizzard is up to with their other MMO project. Wasn't there rumor that some other MMO is in development that can coexist with WoW and not cannibalize it? Maybe something that's better suited for controller gameplay from the ground up? Is there even still something going on?

[Makabreska]

Exactly that. WoW would have to be a totally different game to be enjoyable on console that's for sure. It was never made for console-support in mind, although it'd be interesting to see what Blizzard is up to with their other MMO project. Wasn't there rumor that some other MMO is in development that can coexist with WoW and not cannibalize it? Maybe something that's better suited for controller gameplay from the ground up? Is there even still something going on?

What other MMO project? There is nothing like that. Peeps have been speculating for decades about some Starcraft MMO or whatnot, but nothing came out of it. Why would Blizz release another MMO project to compete with their own game, especially when WoW now receives the most investment ever?

[Darkarath]

I think that WoW on consoles will eventually happen, but not within the WSS. The right time to do it was with the beginning of the trilogy. I just don't see them doing the console version with the amount of changes and new systems that WoW is currently implementing. All these changes are probably with a console version in mind, but as a long-term goal.

Whatever comes after TLT will come with a new talent system revamp, and I would not be surprised if they will revise the whole class - spec system. That would be a good moment to make a console version with the necessary changes.

Another option which I believe that is highly probable is that they make a new version of WoW both for PC and consoles, but obviously with consoles in mind. Something like Classic or SoD but way bigger and adapted to controllers. If they just release WoW Retail on consoles as it is, with shared serves or not, I do not believe that it would be a massive win for them. Probably some of the people that play on PC will change to console but I do not think that it will bring a massive influx of new players long-term, which I guess that it will be their priority, focusing especially on younger players.

[Enexa von der Exodar]

What other MMO project? There is nothing like that. Peeps have been speculating for decades about some Starcraft MMO or whatnot, but nothing came out of it. Why would Blizz release another MMO project to compete with their own game, especially when WoW now receives the most investment ever?

I thought there were some job postings for a new MMO project a while ago but maybe they've scrapped all of it, I dunno.

[Makabreska]

I thought there were some job postings for a new MMO project a while ago but maybe they've scrapped all of it, I dunno.

They were recruiting for their upcoming survival game 2y ago. This project was cancelled when Microsoft took over.

[Lady Atia]

What other MMO project? There is nothing like that. Peeps have been speculating for decades about some Starcraft MMO or whatnot, but nothing came out of it. Why would Blizz release another MMO project to compete with their own game, especially when WoW now receives the most investment ever?

Overwatch was their other MMO project, aka Titan. Oh, and they also had that cancelled survival game recently, cant remember if that was also planned as an MMO.

[Limayria]

I agree, you could - but seriously, who would do that on xbox? that sounds terribly complex for a game clearly targeted at a "wider" audience.



I imagine quick priority target changing to be a nightmare with a controller. Either you have to be real quick zapping trough the mobs to your desired target, or you ought to end up using a mouse again. Well...



If you want to be competitive in the elite bracket, and we're talking way above 3,5k m+ score for example, then yes I could see the need for some very specific baked-in addons because there even tiny mistakes can mean a bricked key. But again, who would want to play at such a high stakes level on console... not sure.

There are exceptions of course, but I always imagine Xbox gameplay to be targeted at those who prefer a more relaxed experience, sitting chilly on a couch. I have both Xbox-X and PC, and I always find it a little more relaxing playing games with a controller (sacrificing some of the versatility of a MMOmouse+keyboard).
... both have their advantages and disadvantages.

There's surely work to be done before something complex like WoW would launch on console.

The giga casuals make cross bars work on ff14 on PlayStation fwiw, I'm also well aware you can do more or less any of the content in the game with our add-ons, it's just a much slower process of learning and many things are poorly telegraphed (they are improving this) it's much less of a problem later in a season; there's also pvp to be considered where add-ons are a straight up competitive advantage

For target selection you can add small numbers onto name plates and have a controller input cycle through mobs by number, which would be fine as 99% of the time you're not going to be fighting more than 7 or 8 mobs, especially not more than that where single target funneling and target switching is super important


The hardest thing to do on a control id think would be healing a large group

[Black Rider]

How do you imagine the ton's of abilities that classes have can be played on controller

[Makabreska]

The giga casuals make cross bars work on ff14 on PlayStation fwiw, I'm also well aware you can do more or less any of the content in the game with our add-ons, it's just a much slower process of learning and many things are poorly telegraphed (they are improving this) it's much less of a problem later in a season; there's also pvp to be considered where add-ons are a straight up competitive advantage

For target selection you can add small numbers onto name plates and have a controller input cycle through mobs by number, which would be fine as 99% of the time you're not going to be fighting more than 7 or 8 mobs, especially not more than that where single target funneling and target switching is super important


The hardest thing to do on a control id think would be healing a large group

Ok, and now do any of this in any content above LFR, when your movement and reactions have to be quick and precise, all while handling dozens of abilities/macros/whatnot. Because if you can't, you will never be invited to any serious content, making console players 2nd rate. I can already see the LFG tool: "LF 2 DPS for SoB 10, no console players".

[Limayria]

Ok, and now do any of this in any content above LFR, when your movement and reactions have to be quick and precise, all while handling dozens of abilities/macros/whatnot. Because if you can't, you will never be invited to any serious content, making console players 2nd rate. I can already see the LFG tool: "LF 2 DPS for SoB 10, no console players".

People do the hardest content in ff14 on console, also "people won't take you to a m+ group" is clearly not a problem for the developers considering how that's the game play loop for lots of non meta specs

Not to mention the fact that people raiding above herioc or doing m+ above a 10 are a very small part of the overall community, and that heroic raid and m+10s would be completable on a controller, people play souls likes on controllers too and that also requires precise movement


Also as I already said, you can have 32 (probably 31 cuz one button would be a jump button probably but still) easy key binds using just face buttons and shoulders buttons + d pad and even more for stuff you have to use more rarely and it's not like cross bars are any more complicated than the standard MMO thing of using control and shift to create more easy to reach key combos for key binds, if anything it might be a little easier to hit a crossbar on a controller than something like, control-shift-5

[Lady Atia]

Ok, and now do any of this in any content above LFR, when your movement and reactions have to be quick and precise, all while handling dozens of abilities/macros/whatnot. Because if you can't, you will never be invited to any serious content, making console players 2nd rate. I can already see the LFG tool: "LF 2 DPS for SoB 10, no console players".

Again, you could just switch to your keyboard for any "serious" content, and use the controller for anything chill. It's not really that hard guys. And not different than scheduling days off your week to do mythic raiding or getting a headset for voice - if you want to do cutting edge/elite stuff you have to invest some basics first.

In other news, anyone else thinking it's kinda weird that we have kinda Revendreth themed Felbats as Gladiator mounts this expansion? Originally I thought they were supposed to be stonebats from the Ringing Depths or Hallowfall (but than again, the models aren't used elsewhere from what I see), but they never changed the name of the mounts from felbat to something else and season 2's actually has red skin aswell. Could just be laziness from the devs who were assigned to work on the mount but yeah.

One could argue that BfA also had random gladiator mounts that didn't really played into it's theme but alteast they were "brutal protodrakes for the faction conflict".

[Raetary]

How do you imagine the ton's of abilities that classes have can be played on controller

You don't have to imagine anything.
You can literally play the game on controller right now.

[Nymrohd]

I am sure dedicated players can play the game with a controller and without addons. But that clearly would be much more challenging. I think in ESO trial trifectas are completed as far as six months later on console than on PC.

For the casual market, it should not be an issue and that is a huge market. For everyone else the game can still be available

[Khaza-R]

Listening to the old Cataclysm login screen music is just great. I love how that expansion was packaged. From the initial announcement trailer with sweeping views of the revamped Azeroth and the two new races, to the Deathwing cinematic.

I'm gonna say this again, because it's still true:

WoD and Legion cashed in on the Burning Crusade nostalgia, and wrapped up the Burning Legion story (for the time being). Think of them as builder-spender rotations in WoW, but instead it's for expansions. WoD builds up towards the finale in Legion.

BfA and Shadowlands did the same for Wrath of the Lich King (but also kept building the Old Gods, since they were still a threat to be dealt with in the future and couldn't just be left to rot in a corner somewhere).

Dragonflight and TWW were meant to do the same for Cataclysm, with a ton of focus on dragons, the elements and Elementals, Old God cultists, the Hour of Twilight, goblins and worgen, a new dwarven land, Queen Azshara and the naga, and so on (before Metzen returned and they came up with the Worldsoul Saga, effectively doing what Peter Jackson did with the Hobbit by turning it into a trilogy instead).

So we're definitely still in the "Cataclysm homage"-phase of WoW's timeline.

What's really interesting, then, is how they intend to pay tribute to Mists of Pandaria.

We already had MoP homage in BfA. People were literally calling it MoP 2.0 because the story is essentially a retread. Saying it marketed itself off WotLK nostalgia seems like a big stretch. And I really don't see TWW being similar at all to Cataclysm for that matter. If its heavily tied to any expansion it would be BfA.