Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

IMO, it's genuinely interesting if you care about charting out the future of WoW. ]

But... we already have the future of WoW charted? They came on stage and gave us 3 expansion reveals because they decided it was time to finally have a story arc over multiple expansions.

You're dying on this hill and I'm so confused why.

[huth]

Because I'm correct. There's one thing in life I can't stand, which is giving up an argument to people when I know in my bones that I'm right. Anyway, enough of this.

That's a very good way to get stuck in an incorrect position. Especially when one fails to critically examine ones own position.

Bones are not known for being particularly good at determining truth.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Because I'm correct. There's one thing in life I can't stand, which is giving up an argument to people when I know in my bones that I'm right. Anyway, enough of this.

And when you are proven wrong, what will you do in this thread? Any atonement prepared?

[milkmustache]

There's a new Anthology of short stories releasing on November 15th of 2025, called "Crossroads", where these stories "provide deeper insight into the powers at play and the battles still to fight following The War Within." They take place in between 11.0 and 11.1, after Xal'atath's disappearance in Hallowfall.

The focuses are Jaina and Thrall (our Horde and Alliance talking heads), Faerin Lothar, Alleria Windrunner, Renzik the Shiv (which has been released today) and... Locus Walker.

A very interesting set of characters to follow. Everything links up well, especially with the current patch with Renzik, but Locus Walker there is... interesting, to say the least. More interesting, however, is no Orweyna.

Collection releases around 11.2.7, the prologue to Midnight.

[Kiivar86]

Across the world, old hatreds are rising

When aren't they rising, Blizzard? I'll hold out hope that it isn't Alliance/Horde business for the umpteenth time (and I say that as someone who wants the Alliance/Horde divide to exist).

Also seems curious to put this out so far after the time period it happened in.

[Cheezits]

A very interesting set of characters to follow. Everything links up well, especially with the current patch with Renzik, but Locus Walker there is... interesting, to say the least. More interesting, however, is no Orweyna.

Collection releases around 11.2.7, the prologue to Midnight.

I think it makes sense, Orweyna is a main character in 11.1 and likely the MC of 11.2, we also get into her personality and story in earlier patches.

Locus Walker SEEMS to be a major character, eventually (especially if he's the Ethereal Leader or Dimensius), but isn't that much in the expansion so he gets a story to flesh him out.

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When aren't they rising, Blizzard? I'll hold out hope that it isn't Alliance/Horde business for the umpteenth time (and I say that as someone who wants the Alliance/Horde divide to exist).

Also seems curious to put this out so far after the time period it happened in.

Could this be referring to the Arathi vs Mag'har story? That may be part of this story collection.

Nevermind, per the description it's not that story, but it could be a continuation of that.

Has it been confirmed before that "Locus-Walker" is not a name but a title? They call him THE Locus-Walker.

Also this seems to point towards the idea that the "Khaz Algar" story is finished or will wrap up, and the next area will be outside that area. I can see Nightfall wrapping up the MSQ.

[Joshuaj]

The themes aren't different at all, like what.

Keep in mind I view WoD+L, BfA+SL, and DF+TWW as six expansions but three overarching themes/stories in this theory. So DF and TWW have to be combined into one cohesive whole when you're thinking about the things I'm listing.

They essentially took Cataclysm as a source of inspiration, and said "over the course of two epic expansions, how can we one-up this material?".

Nor have I suggested that the individual zones' stories are identical between Cataclysm and DF/TWW. We're not talking about carbon copies here. But they fall under the same themes.

The Twilight Highlands is a zone where we venture someplace new, a dwarven highlands area, meet new dwarves that we haven't interacted with too much in the past, and help them fight back encroaching invaders from the Twilight's Hammer and their allies. That's 90% of what the zone is. Which is almost the exact same theme as in the Isle of Dorne. We venture someplace new, a dwarven highlands type of deal, meet new dwarves, and help them fight back against the forces of the Void.

To suggest the Beledar is "just there" isn't a serious argument, is it? We're not even halfway through the expansion yet, and it looks like 11.1.5 will heavily involve the Beledar. So that part will change soon.

Per Wowpedia:



While the pillar itself obviously isn't the same thing as the Beledar, thematically it's still very similar. An important crystal deeply embedded within Azeroth, responsible for keeping powerful forces under control and in harmony, but now damaged from an earth-shattering event and under attack by forces of the Void.

Re: the Elemental Lords and Primal Incarnates, now who's nit-picking and twisting themselves into a knot in order to make things fit (or rather, not fit)? If you can't see the stark thematic similarities between them, I don't know what to tell you. Look at the description below for a moment, and literally just replace [BAD GUYS] with either the Elemental Lords or the Primal Incarnates, and it's the same damn story.



The biggest difference between them would be Iridikron and Therazane, since Therazane is more benign while Iridikron is obviously, at least in part, chosen by Blizzard to also fill the vacuum Deathwing left behind (lord of the earth and everything). So they changed things up a bit for those two characters in particular. I would not be surprised, however, if Iridikron was originally meant to be a final-final big bad of Dragonflight before they came up with the Worldsoul Saga. Remember how we used to think Fyrakk felt a bit hamfisted into that role by the end?

Wouldn't it make more sense to combine these stories as sagas? With it all essentially being "Warcraft: Part 1"? For example:

WC's 1-3: The Beginning Saga
Classic-Wrath: The Rise of Heroes Saga
Cata-WoD: The Shattering Saga
Legion-SL: The Death Saga

And DF serving as the intermission between parts.

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Warcraft Part 2 begins with the Worldsoul Saga. If you want my speculation, this is what I want to see for the coming sagas:

14.0-16.0: The Anarchy Saga (Outland Revamp + Argus/Xoroth/Rancora/Nathreza, Order Realm, Disorder Realm in full)
17.0-19.0: The Discovery (Or Expedition) Saga (Islands of Azeroth + Kalimdor and EK changes, Avaloren, Azeroth's Sun and Moons)
20.0-22.0: The Nature Saga (Kalimdor and EK changes + more of the Emerald Dream, Pandaria Revamp + Elemental Realms on a cosmic scale, Life Realm)
23.0-26.0: The Great War Saga (Return to AU Draenor, Light Realm, Dark Beyond travel, Void Realm)
27.0-30.0: The Final Saga (Cosmic War part 1, Cosmic War part 2, First Ones and Rise of the Seventh, Final Battle against the Seventh).

[Ersula]

We're not seriously organizing expansions into sagas, retroactively, are we? Why? They weren't planned that way. We know that.

[Joshuaj]

We're not seriously organizing expansions into sagas, retroactively, are we? Why? They weren't planned that way. We know that.

Of course they weren't planned that way, but it's a nice way of categorizing them in-case, ya know? The expansion count also fits with the format, ironically enough.

[Khaza-R]

Could this be referring to the Arathi vs Mag'har story? That may be part of this story collection.

Nevermind, per the description it's not that story, but it could be a continuation of that.

Personally I think that story is probably more set up for 14.0. A new faction conflict but not one you're forced into, only effects the narrative, not gameplay and maybe you can choose your allegiance regardless of race.

But I think in order for that to happen we need orcs to find their own equivalent of the Arathi Empire. And I don't really see that happening unless there's some other group of orcs out there who escaped Draenor's implosion but are thriving.

[Nymrohd]

We're not seriously organizing expansions into sagas, retroactively, are we? Why? They weren't planned that way. We know that.

Some people just cannot manage to not see patterns in everything. It is an evolutionary defect.

[BaumanKing]

The focuses are Jaina and Thrall (our Horde and Alliance talking heads), Faerin Lothar, Alleria Windrunner, Renzik the Shiv (which has been released today) and... Locus Walker.

Isn't there too many stories about Alleria already? She had one before TWW, then there was a comic, and now yet another short story before Midnight. Anything about Lor'themar? Or anyone from Quel'Thalas? No?

[Joshuaj]

Hold on a moment guys! I have a question, I just did the Achievement for the Pozznik Standard engine...so why tf don't I have it? Do I have to reach a certain renown for it? or?

Cause if so, then why tf is the Top Speed increase Engine also locked behind renown? Am I seriously stuck with the slow speed engine til then???

[Limayria]

Personally I think that story is probably more set up for 14.0. A new faction conflict but not one you're forced into, only effects the narrative, not gameplay and maybe you can choose your allegiance regardless of race.

But I think in order for that to happen we need orcs to find their own equivalent of the Arathi Empire. And I don't really see that happening unless there's some other group of orcs out there who escaped Draenor's implosion but are thriving.

what if the theorized ogre continent survived Draenors implosion as well? and is now also a collection of floating rocks out in space

[Enrif]

There's a new Anthology of short stories releasing on November 15th of 2025, called "Crossroads", where these stories "provide deeper insight into the powers at play and the battles still to fight following The War Within." They take place in between 11.0 and 11.1, after Xal'atath's disappearance in Hallowfall.

The focuses are Jaina and Thrall (our Horde and Alliance talking heads), Faerin Lothar, Alleria Windrunner, Renzik the Shiv (which has been released today) and... Locus Walker.

A very interesting set of characters to follow. Everything links up well, especially with the current patch with Renzik, but Locus Walker there is... interesting, to say the least. More interesting, however, is no Orweyna.

Collection releases around 11.2.7, the prologue to Midnight.

I think the Haranir story got cut down, quite heavily for Metzen.

If we look at the past few expnsion:
Legion = Fel, last patch leads into...
BfA = Old Gods, last patch leads into...
SL = Death, last patch is a clean cut.

DF = Elements, last patch leads into..

TWW = Life, but i think Metzen turned that ship around and cut down on the Life aspect (Rootlands, Haranir, Earthen Druids) to instead focus on a clear cut evil with the Void.

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get a Rootlands zone at all at this point.

Also, all story characters fit into TWW.
Jaina/Thrall = the start of TWW and how we arrive.
Faerin = The surprise story we encounter in TWW
Alleria = the thread that goes through everything
Renzik = Patch 11.1.
Locus Walker = Patch 11.2.

Also. Perhaps Orweyna turns out to be a Villain/ manipulated by Xal? This would be a twist and would fit with the "beware the eyes of green" prophecy.

[Cheezits]

I think both the Arathi and Harranir story got changed due to the saga idea and (likely) pivoting from OCshit to old world stuff. Avaloren being introduced in DF and teased twice, but not appearing for years (unless it is patch content which I strongly don't expect) doesn't make sense but would make sense for a former version of 12.0 that didn't go to Quel'thalas.

Orweyna and Rootlands are still going to happen as she features in launch MSQ, 11.0.7 and 11.1, but as the main story has now changed I can see the Rootlands story being less important now and akin to dealing with N'zoth (now the Black Blood) while Sylvanas (Xal) disappears from the expansion. Hopefully they can give TWW a satisfying little ending in itself so 11.2 doesn't just feel like the Midnight waiting room.

I could see a "titan rebellion" story happening in the early plot as it was set up by DF before Metzen got there but it would've been more tied specifically to Eonar, Life and Elune (hints in the dream, final TWW patch being Life themed again) vs TLT which now seems to more involve Sargeras and Illidan. Dream patch set up that specifically GREEN dragons made it to Avaloren and Faerin teases dragons existing on her continent.

[Khaza-R]

what if the theorized ogre continent survived Draenors implosion as well? and is now also a collection of floating rocks out in space

Now you're cooking. I don't think there was anything special about the portion of Outland that survived that couldn't apply to the Gorian continent. Unless I missed something in the lore.

But imagining a Gorian Empire that survived. Perhaps instead of an Ogre ruling class like we saw in WoD, orcs and ogres instead cooperated and developed into a more advanced Mok'nathal society even in the fringes of the Twisting Nether. Perhaps too parallel to the Arathi Empire?

[Cheezits]

Now you're cooking. I don't think there was anything special about the portion of Outland that survived that couldn't apply to the Gorian continent. Unless I missed something in the lore.

But imagining a Gorian Empire that survived. Perhaps instead of an Ogre ruling class like we saw in WoD, orcs and ogres instead cooperated and developed into a more advanced Mok'nathal society even in the fringes of the Twisting Nether. Perhaps too parallel to the Arathi Empire?

It could be a version of the Apexis Empire from WoD, as I believe we don't know what happened to the main timeline's version. The WoD version exploded due to a war between the Ogres and Arrakoa, but I could also see them recontextualizing that to them being sucked through time/space.

I do think the devs may be sitting on the Apexis as a way to get back into Ogres, Arrakoa and perhaps the Lightbound all at once when the time is right. I can't see them going for Ogrezonia over that potential, but..

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Very late thought but I just realized it's odd that we don't have Alliance and Horde themed campsites for the warband. Maybe it's just because they have to be crossfaction, but maybe they are working on HD versions of Stormwind/Org assets?

[milkmustache]

Very late thought but I just realized it's odd that we don't have Alliance and Horde themed campsites for the warband. Maybe it's just because they have to be crossfaction, but maybe they are working on HD versions of Stormwind/Org assets?

I still think there's incredible potential for the Durotar & Elwynn zones to be revamped into their respective housing zones to allow a similar seamless phasing. This could give us an updated SW & Org as well.

But the realistic side of me thinks maybe they're trying to be overall faction agnostic? They don't want us to view our warbands as Horde or Ally, but neutral? Which I think is their general direction and also sort of ignores what people really want from Horde/Alliance nowadays.

[Darkarath]

I don't see us going back to Outland or Draenor anytime soon. I mean, Outland was already revamped as Draenor, in a way, and it has been implied that both Outland and Draenor are dying out. Maybe as patch content and I find that possibility unlikely.

Blizzard seems more focused on giving us breadcrumbs of potentially two new continents on Azeroth, plus whatever old zones they want to revamp. I guess that Midnight and TLT will be a kind of ''test'' to see if they can keep making new expansions based on old content. I bet that Midnight and TLT will be VERY succesful. Not necessarily because they are revamps but because Midnight brings Housing and TLT will be the end of the WSS. So I guess that Blizzard will indeed keep revamping old zones as new expansions, and I love it.

Nevertheless, I think that they will be introducing new lands from time to time. After Midnight and TLT (two expansions of revamps), I am pretty sure that we will visit a new continent. Probably the Arathi Empire lands, whether if they are in Avaloren or in another place. It will also make sense that after we defeat the Void and the Titans, the Light will feel empowered and try to take over, but we will see... The Legion will also be in a decent shape by then, especially if Sargeras survives TLT, but I believe that they will come back later.