Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I like the deep dive as well. But if they were going to do a BlizzCon this year I have to assume they have something big to announce other than Midnight and the new Diablo expansion.

Seems too early to announce the StarCraft shooter. I don't know what else they've been working on. I think there was another WarCraft game in the works?

There probably is another Warcraft game of some kind, but I can see Midnight being Cata-levels of "big deal expansion" to the point they give it a whole convention. Saga or not.

Revamp stuff, reboot old world vibes, "pls forgive us Horde players", Playable Helf (for REAL this time!!!) etc.

Also could be a reveal that SOD is being turned into something really big. Though I kind of doubt it.

[Hitei]

I like the deep dive as well. But if they were going to do a BlizzCon this year I have to assume they have something big to announce other than Midnight and the new Diablo expansion.

Seems too early to announce the StarCraft shooter. I don't know what else they've been working on. I think there was another WarCraft game in the works?

There's always a lot of stuff in the works. It's just what ends up making it all the way to the stages for announcement.

I'd argue that despite already knowing what Midnight is, where it roughly takes place and what one of the big features is, it's still more or less the same weight as any other expansion announcement. It'd still have all the same presentations and panels, especially since it would presumably also feature actual housing gameplay and explanations (and potentially a new class?).

2021 only had D2R, the Arcade collection and a regular hearthstone expansion.
2023 had TWW and cata Classic.

Really the only thing you need is Midnight to carry the opening ceremonies. Hearthstone will always have some expansion going on, OW will talk about new heroes and maps, D4 will talk about its updates, if another game has something to show, that's just icing.

[Nymrohd]

There's always a lot of stuff in the works. It's just what ends up making it all the way to the stages for announcement.

I'd argue that despite already knowing what Midnight is, where it roughly takes place and what one of the big features is, it's still more or less the same weight as any other expansion announcement. It'd still have all the same presentations and panels, especially since it would presumably also feature actual housing gameplay and explanations (and potentially a new class?).

2021 only had D2R, the Arcade collection and a regular hearthstone expansion.
2023 had TWW and cata Classic.

Really the only thing you need is Midnight to carry the opening ceremonies. Hearthstone will always have some expansion going on, OW will talk about new heroes and maps, D4 will talk about its updates, if another game has something to show, that's just icing.

D4 is getting another expansion in 2026 so it would have a full expansion reveal to talk about.

[Ersula]

D4 is getting another expansion in 2026 so it would have a full expansion reveal to talk about.

they should focus on their live service game people actually play instead.

[Nymrohd]

they should focus on their live service game people actually play instead.

You are probably right but this isn't the right thread for that discussion. My point was, they do have another expansion reveal to do beyond Warcraft

[Khaza-R]

There's always a lot of stuff in the works. It's just what ends up making it all the way to the stages for announcement.

I'd argue that despite already knowing what Midnight is, where it roughly takes place and what one of the big features is, it's still more or less the same weight as any other expansion announcement. It'd still have all the same presentations and panels, especially since it would presumably also feature actual housing gameplay and explanations (and potentially a new class?).

2021 only had D2R, the Arcade collection and a regular hearthstone expansion.
2023 had TWW and cata Classic.

Really the only thing you need is Midnight to carry the opening ceremonies. Hearthstone will always have some expansion going on, OW will talk about new heroes and maps, D4 will talk about its updates, if another game has something to show, that's just icing.

Fair. I just think if they are going to try to bring it back then its probably going to be bigger than a standard BlizzCon.

[Cheezits]

You are probably right but this isn't the right thread for that discussion. My point was, they do have another expansion reveal to do beyond Warcraft

Honestly, not if they shrink it or merge it into some kind of online event. Midnight has the potential to be huge to the point it can be the ultimate focus of an event, ala the fanfests XIV does.

[Joshuaj]

https://www.ign.com/articles/former-...-ive-ever-seen

So apparently Kotick is denying any abuse or harassment claims, and even states that Metzen loathed the plans for the BFA and SL expansions, suggesting they "needed to be redone entirely", even though Metzen worked on the intro cinematic of BFA before leaving, and I think confirmed he didn't know much about what was going on while BFA and SL were doing their thing?

He also states he begged Metzen to come back, and that he's happy Metzen's doing his thing and has Warcraft around his finger tips.

If you want my opinion on this? I think it's bullshit and he's just saying shit to get brownie points from Metzen and co. The dude does not take responsibility for fucking around with Blizzard and Activision as a whole, blaming it on the devs poor design choices than anything else. And while I don't disagree with his statement on that front, he was the literal CEO, and thus the major part of those bad choices were on him and him alone.

The dude is an actual douchebag, and I really do think he's spewing bullshit in regards to Metzen's opinions on BFA and SL, likely as a means of getting people online to agree with him or some shit. Idk if he liked the expansions or not, but this reasoning is silly.

- - - Updated - - -

""Chris Metzen was — and is, to me — the heart and soul of creativity of the company," Kotick said.

"He left, got burnt out. They made World of Warcraft the movie, which I thought was a terrible idea [but] they had signed the deal before [Activision] had owned the company.""

That's not why Metzen left, and he made it very clear in his official leave post years back.

He was getting stressed, and as a result of that, he was getting panic attacks. They literally had to quit WoD mid development in order for Legion to work properly. This part is not speculation, Kosak (who I respect a ton, and who also crafted a lot of amazing stories for Warcraft) explained this in his recent interview with Pyromancer (another person I dislike, but that's neither here nor there).

- - - Updated - - -

"It took a lot of resources and distracted [developers at Blizzard]," Kotick added. "You think about all these people who make video games for a living, and now they have the chance [to], like, make a movie. They're helping with the casting, and they're on the set, and... it's just a huge distraction.

"Our expansions were late. You know, patches weren't getting done on time. And the movie was terr— it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen."

I fucking hate this guy, holy shit. He's literally just saying anything at this rate to not look like the bad guy.

- - - Updated - - -

How does this relate to speculation? Simple.

I'm glad the Worldsoul Saga is unaffected by this monster. And I'm happy to see Blizzard seems to be doing a better job with him gone. Player housing, Undermine seeming like a fun time, more evergreen changes, the WoW team as a whole just seeming happier rn, it's nice.

[Ersula]

https://www.ign.com/articles/former-...-ive-ever-seen

So apparently Kotick is denying any abuse or harassment claims, and even states that Metzen loathed the plans for the BFA and SL expansions, suggesting they "needed to be redone entirely", even though Metzen worked on the intro cinematic of BFA before leaving, and I think confirmed he didn't know much about what was going on while BFA and SL were doing their thing?

I wouldn't take anything Kotick says seriously. He seems to be retroactively criticizing anything that wasn't immediately successful, like the movie. If he was so against the warcraft movie how did it get made? They're largely independent managerially speaking but Blizzard wouldn't have been able to finance a 150 million dollar movie without Activision's support.

[Khaza-R]

Idk. I don't think Kotick has a reason to lie here. He's basically a non-apologetic slimeball. He's not a gamer and doesn't care about preceived perceptions of expansions and their quality, he cares about how well financially they performed since he speaks to his ability as a CEO. And both BfA and SL performed well even if they had some significant community backlash.

So yeah, I do think he's telling the truth here. Also its pretty clear Metzen hates SLs because why wouldn't he?

[Ersula]

Idk. I don't think Kotick has a reason to lie here.

I don't think Kotick has any reason to tell the truth here. He's unilaterally saying he was against any decision that wasn't financially successful. He's defending his reputation as a CEO and thanks to ndas nobody can refute him.

(BFA & SL sold well. In terms of duration subscriptions they didn't. And subscriptions make wow more money than box sales.)

[Joshuaj]

Idk. I don't think Kotick has a reason to lie here. He's basically a non-apologetic slimeball. He's not a gamer and doesn't care about preceived perceptions of expansions and their quality, he cares about how well financially they performed since he speaks to his ability as a CEO. And both BfA and SL performed well even if they had some significant community backlash.

So yeah, I do think he's telling the truth here. Also its pretty clear Metzen hates SLs because why wouldn't he?

He also wants to make himself look good, as, as you've said, he's an unapologetic slimeball. So, no. I don't think he's telling the truth here. He also said Metzen hated the PLANS of the next two expacs, not the actual developments of them.

Kosak's stated that Blizzard planted the seeds towards SL since Wrath, however they never actually planned on when we'd go there, how it'd look, or who we'd face til much much later. Regardless, SL was on the mind at the time. No reason to believe Metzen wanted to redo that expansion concept. Also no reason to be believe he hated where BFA was going.

Did he like the actual expacs? Idk. Not quite sure he did, as most people hated them, but to say he didn't have them on the cards for some point in WoW's timeline is a lie.

[Hitei]

So yeah, I do think he's telling the truth here. Also its pretty clear Metzen hates SLs because why wouldn't he?

It was entirely up his alley.

[Xilurm]

Why are they revealing Midnight at gamescom if there's gonna be a blizzcon?

[Hitei]

Why are they revealing Midnight at gamescom if there's gonna be a blizzcon?

I mean, when they showed Legion at Gamescom it was mostly just an announcement and features trailer and whatnot, and then IIRC we had to wait until Blizzcon later that year to actually get in-depth panels and explanations for all the stuff. I don't think Gamescom is really built to host a bunch of more intricate systems panels.

[Nerdslime]

Yeah Gamescom will be the big full-length trailer and maybe a high-level LOOK, HOUSING! sort of feature advert and then we'll wait for Blizzcon for all the real panels and details, same as the Legion.

[Khaza-R]

I don't think Kotick has any reason to tell the truth here. He's unilaterally saying he was against any decision that wasn't financially successful. He's defending his reputation as a CEO and thanks to ndas nobody can refute him.

(BFA & SL sold well. In terms of duration subscriptions they didn't. And subscriptions make wow more money than box sales.)

I severely doubt he cares about subs as long as they still gave them revenue. SL might of have had an issue towards its end but with the lawsuit drama, it was destined to fail on that end. BfA had the highest box sales prior to SL. Then you also had the pandemic boost, stimulus and people buying tokens for brutos. Either way, I don't think they suffered for profits during either.

He also wants to make himself look good, as, as you've said, he's an unapologetic slimeball. So, no. I don't think he's telling the truth here. He also said Metzen hated the PLANS of the next two expacs, not the actual developments of them.

Kosak's stated that Blizzard planted the seeds towards SL since Wrath, however they never actually planned on when we'd go there, how it'd look, or who we'd face til much much later. Regardless, SL was on the mind at the time. No reason to believe Metzen wanted to redo that expansion concept. Also no reason to be believe he hated where BFA was going.

Did he like the actual expacs? Idk. Not quite sure he did, as most people hated them, but to say he didn't have them on the cards for some point in WoW's timeline is a lie.

I don't think he cares what gamers think of him. If he did then we would of changed leaf long ago. He cares what investors think of him. Not you or me.

And yeah, they obviously were building towards a death expansion since the start of Legion. But the initial concept probably looked very different than where it landed. I mean its obvious enough that Afrasiabi did a hard pivot at some point during the development of BfA given the disjointed narrative from a Good War, and essentially have almost zero follow through from the BfA threads in Shadowlands.

- - - Updated - - -

It was entirely up his alley.

How so? Metzen isn't a great story teller but he is a good world builder. Shadowlands not only has virtually no pre-seeding but the actual setting itself does an awful job at building it out as an immersive space in WarCraft.

[Joshuaj]

I severely doubt he cares about subs as long as they still gave them revenue. SL might of have had an issue towards its end but with the lawsuit drama, it was destined to fail on that end. BfA had the highest box sales prior to SL. Then you also had the pandemic boost, stimulus and people buying tokens for brutos. Either way, I don't think they suffered for profits during either.



I don't think he cares what gamers think of him. If he did then we would of changed leaf long ago. He cares what investors think of him. Not you or me.

And yeah, they obviously were building towards a death expansion since the start of Legion. But the initial concept probably looked very different than where it landed. I mean its obvious enough that Afrasiabi did a hard pivot at some point during the development of BfA given the disjointed narrative from a Good War, and essentially have almost zero follow through from the BfA threads in Shadowlands.

- - - Updated - - -



How so? Metzen isn't a great story teller but he is a good world builder. Shadowlands not only has virtually no pre-seeding but the actual setting itself does an awful job at building it out as an immersive space in WarCraft.

Think of him like Gallywix. Hates the people, yet loves his public image.

[Cheezits]

Definitely going to reveal the other big box feature(s) and an ACTUALLY big intro cinematic.

[Hitei]

How so? Metzen isn't a great story teller but he is a good world builder. Shadowlands not only has virtually no pre-seeding but the actual setting itself does an awful job at building it out as an immersive space in WarCraft.

That is exactly what Metzen did though. What pre-seeding and immersive warcraft spaces did Metzen do? This is the guy who, as Creative Director, oversaw the first wow expansion being absurd sci-fi nonsense where Kael'thas and the Blood Elves had suddenly simultaneously joined the Horde and also were evil and sabotaging Eredar spaceships for the Legion (Eredar who were now un-devolved Draenei instead of 100 foot tall interdimensional demons). The guy who had Thrall randomly overlook Cairne and Vol'jin and put Garrosh in charge of the Horde, had Varian the human king lecturing a 10,000 year old general who fought in the War of the Ancients about basic military strategy, and villain batted everyone in a 10 mile radius.

Metzen has always been the quintessential "rule of cool" guy. Immersion and seeding has never been something he's worried about, he just comes up with ideas he thinks are cool throws them in and then (with mixed results) attempts to write the story around it.

SL was all sorts of stuff he liked. He likes Anduin (and Anduin being introspective), he likes classicly metal shit like angels and necromancers, he likes magical whimsy. He likes random, made-up on the spot mcguffins (focusing iris, world pillar, dragon soul randomly coming back, divine bell, (blood) anima), he likes spooky hidden advisors who turn out to be some notable person, he likes classically evil guys in spike-covered armor, chains, carelessly jumping into the cosmology of the setting and origins of races without giving much thought into the impact, big end fights where the villain is attempting to wipe out all life in a single cast, bringing back old dead characters.

What exactly makes you think he didn't like SL? Like what specifically do you think he'd have a problem with?