Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Limayria]

That's the point tho, no? The Emerald Dream we saw was heavily ordered by Eonar and Freya. It was restrained from being wild.

Idk if you've realized it by now, but most people who play and discuss wow are illiterate troglodytes so expecting them to be able to connect two pieces of information will always leave you disappointed

Much less understanding subtext or metaphor or any thing besides a character looking at the screen and explaining in simple words what they are doing and why, and even when characters do that most of the wow community still doesn't understand them

[Joshuaj]

"The whole "orderly" thing is a relatively recent invention. In the past, the Emerald Dream was portrayed as more of a dream-like wilderness. But what it ended up being was sort of an upgraded version of Val'sharah."

Politely, I need you to ask yourself this: What was Val'Sharah supposed to represent?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, yeah nah the images don't work.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel like y'all wanted to see what Hearthstone ended up doing, where the Dream is full on fantastical and and whatnot. On that, I'll agree, we should've seen more of that.

[milkmustache]

That's the point tho, no? The Emerald Dream we saw was heavily ordered by Eonar and Freya. It was restrained from being wild.

Well yes, but I'm moreso criticizing the design choices in the Dragonflight presentation of the Emerald Dream. The focus on Amirdrassil and the Green Dragonflight's area didn't make it feel very unique, in my opinion. It just sort of felt like another zone. Dragonflight gave a massive upgrade to a lot of quality of life issues that WoW had while also modernizing it, but I have a lot of issues with the asethetic design approaches in that expansion.

I feel like y'all wanted to see what Hearthstone ended up doing, where the Dream is full on fantastical and and whatnot. On that, I'll agree, we should've seen more of that.

Yea, this is pretty much what I'm saying. The Emerald Dream as presented in 10.2 felt like a continuation of the Dragon Isles rather than a look into the Emerald Dream. Theres plenty of discussions to be made about whether or not the Emerald Dream proper should be spent only on a patch opposed to an expansion (thus explaining their subdued approach), but I personally felt that it missed the mark entirely. So yes, it's cool to see the Hearthstone approach to it. I think Amirdrassil hit parts of what the Dream could've been very well.

[Cheezits]

The 10.2 Dream aesthetic is a double edged sword- by making it canon or softcanon that the Dream is pinched off from a reality-spanning "Lifelands" that has more wildness and craziness to it (as Qonzu and that one theory book seem to foreshadow), it made the Dream more boring by making it restrained into a very distinct aesthetic presented by the Valsharah, the Dreamway and Dream!Ardenweald. Green clouds, purple flowers, flying islands, dreamcatchers, dragon architecture, but that's pretty much it. The raid takes place 90% inside a sterile dragon temple even if it's getting hit with lava, not a cool forest or jungle.

I think it's better for the series as a whole that the Dream is not the be-all-end-all source of Life in the setting but it does make it lamer and more constrained in comparison. Like I'm sure the "Raw and Primal version of Azeroth" people wanted from the Dream will be used for the Lifelands, "Life Veil" and/or Rootlands, but the Dream will now forever be "pretty fairy Azeroth the Titans wanted".

tl;dr making the Dream Azeroth/Titan only versus Overall Magic Life Place restrained it but opened up more lore pathways that may or may not be good.

As we see with Undermine, sometimes going all-in on a theme instead of kneecapping it for the sake of future expansions is nice. Though we will probably never get a lot of Goblin content ever again versus Life stuff we will absolutely be getting through Rootlands, Botani, Elune, Qonzu, Kalimdor in general, Avaloren Green Dragons, etc.

[Cheezits]

If we could just hop into semi-procedurally generated random locations within the Dream for evergreen content, that would be awesome. It could be wild, less intentional.

But they've locked in the idea that the Dream is neat, tidy and fairy-Life. The Rootlands conceptually could've come about from devs realizing there are other ways to go about exploring Life magic and ideas without it being the Dream, similar to the Everbloom, but now the Dream is forever sterile.

If they expand on whatever is beyond the Dream we could get some really cool stuff but I do think Dream Azeroth is doomed to forever look like 10.2.

My thoughts are that the greater Lifelands will be explored to an extent in the next saga (NOT its own disconnected expansion because they know better now) and it will be the opposite of sterile compared to SL and the Dream. Instead Elune and Co will be more primal warrior like versus the ordered pantheons. Maybe a patch to get their support to clear up the next sagas threats, with the way being opened by the renegade green dragons who crossed the storming sea. We already know they likely aren't like regular dragons.

[milkmustache]

My thoughts are that the greater Lifelands will be explored to an extent in the next saga (NOT its own disconnected expansion because they know better now) and it will be the opposite of sterile compared to SL and the Dream. Instead Elune and Co will be more primal warrior like versus the ordered pantheons. Maybe a patch to get their support to clear up the next sagas threats, with the way being opened by the renegade green dragons who crossed the storming sea. We already know they likely aren't like regular dragons.

This has some legs, I think it's a possibility. I'm excited about the idea of a new dragon brood, especially one that has difference to the Flights and their association with the Titans. I understand power creep and that our characters have no reason to fear dragons, but I do miss the idea of a dragon feeling dangerous. Faerin seemed to imply the dragons in the Empire are dangerous creatures (or at least they have myths of them). It would be a really cool opportunity to introduce a classic dragon again into the world.

I would just be... bummed I suppose, if we find a the green dragon brood across the sea and rather than just allowing them to exist we have an entire storyline about reuniting them with their Green Dragonflight cousins.

[Sondrelk]

This has some legs, I think it's a possibility. I'm excited about the idea of a new dragon brood, especially one that has difference to the Flights and their association with the Titans. I understand power creep and that our characters have no reason to fear dragons, but I do miss the idea of a dragon feeling dangerous. Faerin seemed to imply the dragons in the Empire are dangerous creatures (or at least they have myths of them). It would be a really cool opportunity to introduce a classic dragon again into the world.

I would just be... bummed I suppose, if we find a the green dragon brood across the sea and rather than just allowing them to exist we have an entire storyline about reuniting them with their Green Dragonflight cousins.

Lots of stuff in Avaloren or whatever it will be called that has potential, but could easily be sacrificed for short term easy writing.
Making the Arathi empire friendly for instance. Easy to make a grand storyline about that. But also much more interesting long term or they stay antagonistic, and a constant threat to the Alliance and Horde.

I guess only time will tell. Wow does not always have the best track record for long term storytelling. But given lots of stuff surrounding the Arathi seems to imply a fresh start, maybe it's the writers trying to be sensible for once.

[Avikur]

When should we expect class tuning? Before the patch? After the patch but before the season starts? Or after mythic week 1? I ask as a destro main as I have seen that rain of fire is currently doing more damage in single target than chaos bolt so guessing tuning is needed on other specs as well?

[milkmustache]

Lots of stuff in Avaloren or whatever it will be called that has potential, but could easily be sacrificed for short term easy writing.
Making the Arathi empire friendly for instance. Easy to make a grand storyline about that. But also much more interesting long term or they stay antagonistic, and a constant threat to the Alliance and Horde.

I guess only time will tell. Wow does not always have the best track record for long term storytelling. But given lots of stuff surrounding the Arathi seems to imply a fresh start, maybe it's the writers trying to be sensible for once.

This is exactly how I feel. The potential for the Arathi's to become a far larger and more dangerous version of the Scarlets or Venture Co of old is an awesome, awesome opportunity that I hope they cash in on.

[Viridiel]

But they've locked in the idea that the Dream is neat, tidy and fairy-Life. The Rootlands conceptually could've come about from devs realizing there are other ways to go about exploring Life magic and ideas without it being the Dream, similar to the Everbloom, but now the Dream is forever sterile.

I'm not so sure about that. We killed Nymue, and they were the thing that was keeping the Dream ordered following the specific pattern provided by Freya and Eonar. It'll probably remain ordered around Amirdrassil because the green dragons will continue to do what they've been told to do, but things should start to fall away in at least some areas. They were already struggling for years to keep things ordered in the face of the Nightmare, so the green dragons don't seem to have as much of a hold on the Dream anymore.

I'd expect the Rootlands to be either uniquely tied to the Dream or uniquely cut off from the Dream. There hasn't been any indication that any of the other titans care about the Dream at all, so I'm leaning more toward it being uniquely tied to the Dream as a way to hide it from the other titans. Mind you, our characters fall asleep when we try to fly to the Rootlands right now, although that could always be a general Life thing.

I'm hoping there's a larger storyline here that'll continue through to a Kalimdor revamp. If the haranir are indeed connected to quilboar then there needs to be a haranir-quilboar-botani coalition centered around the Wailing Caverns, spreading wilderness in the Emerald Dream. I know it's a major retread of the Nightmare storyline, but this time it's not so black-and-white.

[Sauredfangs]

Undermine would've been a great time to introduce Casinos. Undermine seems like the perfect place to have a casino.

[Joshuaj]

Undermine would've been a great time to introduce Casinos. Undermine seems like the perfect place to have a casino.

...That's what the Gallagio is.

[Sauredfangs]

...That's what the Gallagio is.

Oh really? I didn't know, I thought it was a palace.

But I mean they should include playable casino games to WoW

[Nymrohd]

But I mean they should include playable casino games to WoW

That sounds illegal.

And it is called the Gallagio, what did you think it was? Gallywix + Bellagio. Though Gallywix and Undermine give a lot more Atlantic City than Vegas.

[Lady Atia]

Oh really? I didn't know, I thought it was a palace.

But I mean they should include playable casino games to WoW

No they shouldn't. WoW isn't the place to create rl gambling addictions ...

[Black Rider]

11.1.5 appeared on wowdev2
https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1892792969482170665

[Nymrohd]

11.1.5 appeared on wowdev2
https://x.com/algalon_ghost/status/1892792969482170665

Was that not a week ago?

[Xilurm]

Oh really? I didn't know, I thought it was a palace.

But I mean they should include playable casino games to WoW

Then they'd have to make it so half the countries in EU can't access those due to the fact you can buy gold with real money in WoW now.

[Jaggler]

nobody needs gambling shit in video games.

[Kiivar86]

Oh really? I didn't know, I thought it was a palace.

But I mean they should include playable casino games to WoW

Casinos in video games are kind of not a thing anymore, generally. Take a look at Pokemon, for example - the early generations had the game corners with slots, but no longer. A game having that will result in the rating being jacked up in some places, or outright refused for release (see for example Balatro getting banned from release for at least a time in some places, despite being a single player game).