Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

Fantastic change with ?? drop. I think they should also give option to get older keystone mounts as 1% drops from M+10 and higher dungeons.

[Sondrelk]

Fantastic change with ?? drop. I think they should also give option to get older keystone mounts as 1% drops from M+10 and higher dungeons.

Those feel more like the Vicious mounts, so probably better to have those on a similar token based system. Do enough keys over the required rating, and you eventually get a token to buy any of the old ones.

[Dracullus]

Those feel more like the Vicious mounts, so probably better to have those on a similar token based system. Do enough keys over the required rating, and you eventually get a token to buy any of the old ones.

Keystone mount is not like PVP though, M+ is challenge to reach certain point and PVP just grind (especially with Shuffle and Blitz options).

But yeah, RNG, grind whatever, both our ideas still require playing higher M+ anyway, so people won't think "eh screw it I'll just do it as old content in the future" as people often feel with raids when they after transmog or mount.

[Lady Atia]

Those feel more like the Vicious mounts, so probably better to have those on a similar token based system. Do enough keys over the required rating, and you eventually get a token to buy any of the old ones.

That could also work, or as I said, just make them drop from +10/+13 keys as a rare drop. In a perfect world, M+ should be roughly the same difficulty each season (and I know they dont always manage that), but if you push, you will always able to reach these key ranks, so I think that would be the most fair system. And again, only make them available 2 expansions after their release to match the timepoint of people being able to easily clear Mythic raids.

For pvp on the other hand - again, I think that a RATED pvp renown that's decoupled from the current rating system that gives new and old rewards (with the current rating system giving perma titles, current transmogs and current gladiator mounts), again limited to stuff older than 2 expansions, designed so that people can get SPECIFIC things they want without them being able to CATCH UP to people who actually hit the higher ratings (since you would be limited to lets say 1 elite set, 1 gladiator mount, 1 tabard and 1 illusion per season / bnet acc) - would be the most fair system since unlike with M+, other people can fuck up your rating which may be the reason many people don't even try it in the first place. You don't need a Cutting Edge in order to enable mount drops from past Mythic raids, so I don't think a rating based system to get old pvp rewards would work other than once again gatekeeping collectors. With a renown that you can only get through winning rated pvp (so basically the vic mount system but with a track rather than just the vic saddle) the ladder would be revived, and for sure we need that if any of you tried to play pvp in the last 2 months (especially blitz which is now full of q syncers lol).

Edit: Alternatively, option C for the keystone mounts would be to make a M+ renown that has 1 old saddle / season, from a pool older than 2 expansions, similiar to my PVP idea. With that, again people can get stuff they missed in the past, but can't just catch up unless they play higher M+ aswell and never skip a season for the next few expansions, preserving prestige that's currently gone from the vic mounts since you can catch up.

Again, I think that would make both sides happy - people who want old stuff, and people who enjoy FOMO prestige rewards and try to gatekeep them. You get to enjoy your rewards for 2 expansions exclusively, and after that, people can target stuff but will never catch up to someone who does elite content at the current level.

[Cheezits]

Yeah I think M+ vicious mounts would be a great choice. They aren't as prestigious as Glad mounts and SL was a rough expac, would be nice to go back and get some of those Death Elementals in an expansion with tighter mechanics.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah I think M+ vicious mounts would be a great choice. They aren't as prestigious as Glad mounts and SL was a rough expac, would be nice to go back and get some of those Death Elementals in an expansion with tighter mechanics.

But it doesn't matter if you think pvp glad mounts are "more prestigious". It's either all or nothing. They either give us everything after some time has passed, or they leave the M+ mounts alone. PvP shouldn't be the only source of removed mounts, especially as less than 1% of all players can get their hands on them, boosting and wintrading is a big thing there aswell so your "prestige" means nothing anyways, it's literally a waste of art imo.

And right now, the new 3k mount is meant to be the gladiator equivalent for M+ (even though its quite a lot easier, as again, M+ has no way to loose rating compared to shitty 18 year old pvp rating).

[Nightshade711]

Just hope they one day finally release all the old Gladiator sets. Still such a travesty that there are so many sets that to functionally unused due to excessive restrictions.

Agreed. There’s so much they could do to bring back the old sets. If they’re still tied to rating requirement then they’re still “prestigious” so I don’t fully understand why people are against it.

It is still very strange to me that blizzard added the elite PvP ensembles to the DF vendors & restricted the purchase to the rating from that season.
Since you know… if you got the rating during that season you’d have automatically unlocked the set anyways?

[Lady Atia]

Agreed. There’s so much they could do to bring back the old sets. If they’re still tied to rating requirement then they’re still “prestigious” so I don’t fully understand why people are against it.

It is still very strange to me that blizzard added the elite PvP ensembles to the DF vendors & restricted the purchase to the rating from that season.
Since you know… if you got the rating during that season you’d have automatically unlocked the set anyways?

These sets are there for two reasons: 1st, some people had bugs with the elite unlocks even though they had the rating, and 2nd the sets give you extra sources with the same look, which is something collectors from data of azeroth wanted for a long time (since completion rating there is given by source, rather than appearance), so they gave us that aswell as the MoP remix ensembles with every source in it.

[Joshuaj]

Vault is literally built to keep you addicted just like free pulls in gacha games, it's the same slimey manipulative tactic, you also 100% can buy vault slots by buying boost which blizzard created a channel for and actively enable, sure you can grind for your slots too but that's the case in many gatcha games


The vault + gold only boosting communities + wow tokens is just a round about way of implementing gacha mechanics and it has design influence, blizzard is incentived to not make finding groups easier for average players or making things more easily accessible because they benefit from people buying gold

Ah, yikes then

[Sauredfangs]

It would be a fun idea if this were a single-player game — New Vegas has fun gambling mechanics — but it just wouldn't work for WoW because we already know people overvalue digital gold and would probably wind up spending real money on getting more gold for gambling, either from official or unofficial RMT.

Oh yeah that makes sense. Maybe they could gamble with tokens and get specific rewards using tokens.

[Ersula]

Ah, yikes then

Because as we all know, Classic does not have a goldselling problem. /s

The theory the vault was made to give wow gacha mechanics rather than bad luck protection when the illegitimate moneymaking aspects already existed, is dumb.

[Joshuaj]

Because as we all know, Classic does not have a goldselling problem. /s

The theory the vault was made to give wow gacha mechanics rather than bad luck protection when the illegitimate moneymaking aspects already existed, is dumb.

You do realize it's bad no matter the version, yeah?

[Ersula]

You do realize it's bad no matter the version, yeah?

that was my entire point

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Oh yeah that makes sense. Maybe they could gamble with tokens and get specific rewards using tokens.

If you mean a special currency instead of WoW tokens, that could actually work on the condition that the currency isn't tradeable, can't be purchased by gold, and can only be obtained by doing events or activities in-game.

[Limayria]

Because as we all know, Classic does not have a goldselling problem. /s

The theory the vault was made to give wow gacha mechanics rather than bad luck protection when the illegitimate moneymaking aspects already existed, is dumb.

If the vault was actually meant to be bad luck protection than it would be dinars, you know the thing Morgan Day called bad luck protection directly in an interview; not an rng shit fest that's also the only way to get meaningful gear outside of mythic raiding for people pushing m+

Just because classic is more direct with using ur mtx gold to buy items doesn't make it less scummy considering for many people the vault is just a gachafied version of gdkp, where instead of loot auctions you buy "pulls" by paying for X number of m+ runs or raid boss kills or w/e

[Ersula]

If the vault was actually meant to be bad luck protection than it would be dinars, you know the thing Morgan Day called bad luck protection directly in an interview; not an rng shit fest that's also the only way to get meaningful gear outside of mythic raiding for people pushing m+

You're acting like bad luck protection hasn't taken many different forms in wow's lifetime. The vault is as rng as all loot drops are. It's literally just an extra drop. Sorry you feel entitled to the best gear even if its outside your skill level.

[Limayria]

You're acting like bad luck protection hasn't taken many different forms in wow's lifetime. The vault is as rng as all loot drops are. It's literally just an extra drop. Sorry you feel entitled to the best gear even if its outside your skill level.

I mean this is veering off topic but a +14 is harder than half of the mythic raid bosses at least and still drops worse gear, raiding isn't and shouldn't be the only meaningful end game pillar in wow and the fact that devs treat m+ as an equal even tho to get the same gear as a mythic raider you're limited to one piece a week absolute max, when raiders get their one piece a week from the vault and a chance at drops

But still this isn't about feeling entitled to the best gear or whatever, it's about the actual impacts on the way people play the game and lots of people are swiping credit cards to fill out their vaults which once again provides a financial incentive for blizzard to keep the vault an rng shit fest so more people will whale out on tokens to keep gambling to get the items they actually want from it

Never mind the fact that vault loot is used by blizzard as an excuse to keep m+ end of run chest feeling unrewarding for people using it as their primary end game or people who don't have the scheduling consistency to play the same 2 hours 2 nights a week for mythic raids

[Sauredfangs]

If you mean a special currency instead of WoW tokens, that could actually work on the condition that the currency isn't tradeable, can't be purchased by gold, and can only be obtained by doing events or activities in-game.

Yeah I mean a new special currency not WoW Token

[Ersula]

Never mind the fact that vault loot is used by blizzard as an excuse to keep m+ end of run chest feeling unrewarding for people using it as their primary end game or people who don't have the scheduling consistency to play the same 2 hours 2 nights a week for mythic raids

I hear legends about people who can do 15+ keys regularly but for some unearthly reason can't get into a inpromptu mythic raid pug but I've never met them.

The truth is its not that these people can't do mythic raiding, they just don't want to....so I don't feel like keeping gear away from those people is somehow a manipulative financial scheme.

[Nymrohd]

Humanity's overspecialization on pattern recognition will really be the doom of us all . . .