Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[johnnyd2]

"Ignite the Fuel of Change

The spark of revolution finally ignites! On March 3, join the goblins of Undermine in their effort to take back the streets.

Homecoming

A new questing experience becomes available for the first time anywhere on March 3."

While yes this is a timegate. Its honestly more bearable than some of their more recent ones *Glares at Khadgar in his Wheelchair*.
plus it makes sense that the final chapters unlock right before/as the Raid itself opens.

[allegrian]

I genuinely don't think this expansion will have anything interesting happening, its' a dry one folks. Most excitement will be centered on the Gamescom reveal of Midnight.

The Blade and N'zoth is really the only thing that can get my brow slightly raised but I doubt that they will utilize it because of how determined they've been on stating the Old Gods are completely dead and buried.

TWW feels kinda dropped since Metzen came back and decided to pivot its story into the WWS, and only used TWW as a pre-prologue to TLT. Midnight will be the true start of the saga.

11.1 will be a cool filler as we get to kill a former horde leader and Cata-BFA villain, but it has nothing to do with neither 11.0 nor the world soul saga at large, and I feel 11.2 will be similarly self contained and just a waiting room for the true story that'll start in midnight.

[Viridiel]

There's a nonzero chance the Old Gods will actually return as Light beings. Xal'atath makes reference to naaru having been originally Void-aligned and lost to the Light, most likely Void propaganda but still maybe true. Light is also compared to Death and Order--we know that the Light and the Void exist in some kind of cycle, so it could be similar to the Great Cycle where all mortal beings affiliated with the cycle of Light and Void go to the Light when they die. With the reveal that Wild Gods don't actually return directly to the Emerald Dream and instead go to the Shadowlands first like every other mortal, it seems like no amount of being tied to a particular force can pervert whatever natural cycles exist. Unlike the Shadowlands, though, I doubt the Light has a god who returns Void-aligned beings to the Void.

[Ersula]

I don't think we're going to see the old gods again - at least not the way we're familiar with them. Xal's focus on the blood implies its the blood itself that gave them their power, so she'll surely use it to ascend into being an entirely new old god, ironically, or even give us an entirely new pantheon of old gods created by her.

The very first footage of TWW started with Xal outright saying "The Old Gods are dead." That's pretty succinct.

[Cheezits]

Homecoming being the last chapter and gated being the raid completion makes me think it's Orweyna going to the Rootlands teasing for sure, unsure what other homecoming would take place unless it really is K'aresh for the Ethereals.

[Scyth]

I genuinely don't think this expansion will have anything interesting happening, its' a dry one folks. Most excitement will be centered on the Gamescom reveal of Midnight.

I’m enjoying the expansion a lot so far but the story has been pretty average and forgettable so far unfortunately.

If Xal is the main villain of this story, we really need to see her doing more than just smirking at us and disappearing.

I’m really hyped for 11.1 but I don’t expect the story to be great.

[Darkarath]

I’m enjoying the expansion a lot so far but the story has been pretty average and forgettable so far unfortunately.

If Xal is the main villain of this story, we really need to see her doing more than just smirking at us and disappearing.

I’m really hyped for 11.1 but I don’t expect the story to be great.

I am too enjoying TWW quite a bit after an hiatus. I honestly think that WoW is in its prime, and IMO 11.0 has the best questing experience of WoW. A more focused Main Questline and hundreds of side quests has been the perfect approach and I hope that they repeat this model in the future.

But as I stated in other posts, the potential for massive letdown is there. We barely know anything about Xal'athat. Leaving her past and her motives for Midnight would be a huge mistake. They need to build her NOW.

Also, if the most interesting and spectacular element of the expansion, the Beledar, ends up being just a crystal that changes from Light to Void for reasons... That would be such a monumental mistake. Everybody is guessing about the Beledar and expect that Blizzard does something with it, and of course they have to do something with it during TWW. So that's a risk too.

I am glad that we are finally focusing on Goblins in 11.1. They deserve it and it actually makes sense IMO. I am genuinely interested in Gallywix. I hope that they develop him a little bit before we presumably kill him. His death could be interesting too. Or funny. Either option works for me.

I also fully expect to see a little more of Xal'athat and hopefully some Ethereal agent here and there. The story will mostly be about Goblins but I hope that they advance the main narrative a little bit.

[Scyth]

I am too enjoying TWW quite a bit after an hiatus. I honestly think that WoW is in its prime, and IMO 11.0 has the best questing experience of WoW. A more focused Main Questline and hundreds of side quests has been the perfect approach and I hope that they repeat this model in the future.

But as I stated in other posts, the potential for massive letdown is there. We barely know anything about Xal'athat. Leaving her past and her motives for Midnight would be a huge mistake. They need to build her NOW.

Also, if the most interesting and spectacular element of the expansion, the Beledar, ends up being just a crystal that changes from Light to Void for reasons... That would be such a monumental mistake. Everybody is guessing about the Beledar and expect that Blizzard does something with it, and of course they have to do something with it during TWW. So that's a risk too.

I am glad that we are finally focusing on Goblins in 11.1. They deserve it and it actually makes sense IMO. I am genuinely interested in Gallywix. I hope that they develop him a little bit before we presumably kill him. His death could be interesting too. Or funny. Either option works for me.

I also fully expect to see a little more of Xal'athat and hopefully some Ethereal agent here and there. The story will mostly be about Goblins but I hope that they advance the main narrative a little bit.

Yeah I am not sure why they've chosen not to do much with Xal'atath so far, hopefully they have a lot planned for 11.2 as I also think leaving it for Midnight wil not feel good. The datamined Ethereal raid is hopefully when we get to learn more about her.

Agree on the Beledar too. Surely they don't ignore it all expansion, right..right?

What I've played of Undermine on the PTR has been fun tbh, I think they have done a great job with the Goblin story. I just wish it was a bit more, relevant? We still haven't seen everything so will reserve judgement until the whole campaign is out.

[Pyrophax]

Basically yes, but there are some of us who (perhaps naively) cling to a theory that we were given incorrect information by Archaedas.

Either because he was tampered with or lied to. If you recall, he seemed confused as to the reasons he was giving us all this sensitive intelligence. Sure, it might be the worldsoul influencing him to tell the truth, but it could also be something more sinister, seeking to keep us ignorant as to what the real nature of the Beledar is.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... and the Beledar sure as hell does. If you replace the word 'duck' with 'naaru or Sun-affiliated dimensional ship'.

As for what the final zone will be, I kind of lean towards three different possibilities.

A. Rootlands.
B. Undersea.
C. Worldcore (possibly named Uldaz).

But right now, I think the worldcore stuff will wait for TLT.

That leaves the Rootlands and the Undersea. One of them could be the 11.2 zone, and one could be some type of mini zone or dungeon in a smaller patch.

K'aresh, I think, is out of the question until Midnight.

Undersea makes perfect sense for some 11.1.5 or .7 zone to me. Remember roadmap, we still have Nightfall and Horrific Visions. Why not there?

Rootlands heavily hinted from start of TWW, with blocked ways from Ringing Deeps and Aj'Kahet, Orweyna stories and DF books. 11.2 would be good patch for it. Huge task tho, to differentiate it from ED patch of DF.

[Limayria]

I think we're gonna get more info on Xal in either the new visions or the 11.2 raid

I also think the 11.2 raid will have an etheral boss with an associated hoverbike mount using the new broom model as a base which will be repurposed for playable etherals mount in 12.0

[Eldryth]

Rootlands heavily hinted from start of TWW, with blocked ways from Ringing Deeps and Aj'Kahet, Orweyna stories and DF books. 11.2 would be good patch for it. Huge task tho, to differentiate it from ED patch of DF.

Even before that- if it really is Elun'ahir, then we got a big hook for it back in 10.2.

And that background- along with Orweyna's ongoing story- is why I think it's far too important and interesting to be anything less than a major patch zone. It's a place closely tied to both Eonar and Elune, that caused what I'm pretty sure was the only known internal conflict within the Pantheon (aside from Sargeras's betrayal). In a Saga culminating with us facing said Pantheon and uncovering their conspiracies.

So Eonar and Aman'Thul's conflict is too big to rush or gloss over. It's an important chance to develop them before their return, and give us clues to their big plan (and hints as to whether Eonar could end up on our side). Plus there's the fact that the Haranir seem to be the first race we've met that actively worship and commune with Azeroth herself, so that should also come with some reveals about the Worldsoul which would be very important for the Saga.

There's just way more plot hooks there than anything else around Khaz Algar aside from the Worldcore itself (which I suspect would be the accompanying raid), and most of them are so closely tied to the Saga's goals that it'd be a huge waste to ignore them.

Beladar is important too, but unless you're adamant that everything we know about it is a lie, there just isn't anywhere near as much mystery to expand on there. I'd expect to spend 11.1.5 and 11.1.7 dealing with it (we already pretty much know from the patch title that 11.1.5 will be focused on Hallowfall), but I can't see it continuing all the way to 11.2. We'll have been dealing with it for most of S2 by that point.

[Cheezits]

If they go full hollow earth and caveman themed for Rootlands I can see it being different enough from the Dream. Maybe very Avatar/Pandora inspired as it doesn't seem like the Haranir have high civilization.

- - - Updated - - -

I think we're gonna get more info on Xal in either the new visions or the 11.2 raid

I also think the 11.2 raid will have an etheral boss with an associated hoverbike mount using the new broom model as a base which will be repurposed for playable etherals mount in 12.0

Have they had hoverbikes in the past?

[allegrian]

I was disspointed by the Beledar and hallowfall as a zone not changing anything when it goes from light to dark. It feels like the zone event should have activated only with the dark beledar but they dropped that idea to avoid the DF problem of having too many scheduled events.

[Osmeric]

I just don't think the game engine can do massive monsters justice. And that's reasonable, very few games have ever managed to do massive monsters justice.

Maybe an encounter where we all get enlarged by a factor of (say) 100, or even more? Part of the encounter could be to not crush too many things as we fight the boss.

[Nymrohd]

Maybe an encounter where we all get enlarged by a factor of (say) 100, or even more? Part of the encounter could be to not crush too many things as we fight the boss.

Honestly that's what I was thinking all the way back in Dragon Soul; maybe the Aspects would just make us larger.

[Sondrelk]

Imagine if the "rootlands" has got the top of the Beledar in it, lol.

Thinking more about Elun'ahir, though... where is the hole? If Aman'thul ripped a big tree out of the ground and the roots are above Azj-kahet and Hallowfall, wouldn't there be a gaping hole somewhere on the Isle of Dorn, or just off its coasts?

This leads me to believe that either:

A - these roots are just part of a massive network of roots, stretching much further across Azeroth than just Khaz Algar. This in turn implies that maybe the hole is the Well of Eternity, and Aman'thul didn't just rip out Y'shaarj, but the world tree to cause this wound. This fits Norse mythology about the world tree Yggrassil, which had the serpent of the world gnawing on its roots. Maybe Y'shaarj was underneath Elun'ahir and got ripped out as collateral damage, or maybe Aman'thul ripped out the tree because he knew Y'shaarj had gotten to it.

B - the tree was nearby Khaz Algar but the Titans covered it up by shaping Azeroth above it. So that would explain the Undersea, which might originally have been a huge crater or lake or something.

Edit:

I guess maybe the Sundering could have caused the hole left behind after the tree to disappear.

I don't think a giant hole in the ocean would be that visible on account, you know, the ocean filling it in.

[Cheezits]

The Rootlands/Elun'ahir hole could be under Un'goro, as there is a longstanding theory that there was a world tree there (see: Ilgynoth). That may play into the possible dinosaur theme and the Haranir being Dark Trolls and/or Quillboar related. Everything seems to imply the Rootlands proper are not actually in Khaz Algar but these various things point towards Kalimdor.

I think Flarendo (robot t-rex boss and mount) may be a sign they are working on updating the Devilsaur model.

Also it would be some fun retroactive foreshadowing if Mr. Evil Whispers himself talking about roots was in fact in chilling in a projection of Elun'ahir the whole time.

Also if you want to assume Sargeras was trying to stab the Worldcore, it implies the Worldcore is actually under Kalimdor and not Khaz Algar. Or maybe whatever powers the Manifold? That may make more sense as he would want to free Azeroth, not kill her.

[Cheezits]

3. Aman'thul, infuriated over this, tore the tree down. He did not want Life to gain that big of a foothold on Azeroth. If anyone were to seize control of the worldsoul from the Old Gods, it should be he. Order. Life would risk tainting his perfect Titan-forged with free will, weaken them, and render them more vulnerable to the Old Gods' corrupting influence.

4. As he did, Y'shaarj followed, deeply embedded between the roots as he'd become. A vast chasm opened at the center of the world, and Eonar wept at the resulting damage. The Well of Eternity formed.

I can definitely see this being the case: Elun'ahir and Yshaarj were both ripped out at the same time, with the "tears" of Elune/Eonar actually being the WoE (get it?? woe...).

However Yshaarj and Elun'ahir both being "parasites" that Aman'thul dealt with in the same way also sounds like something that Blizz would do. They could even twist it with Beledar being the Light Parasite.

However, the WOE became the Maelstrom, no? (edit: just finished reading so yes). I doubt there's anything under there currently which goes against the concept of the Rootlands being born underneath Elun'ahir. UNLESS the Rootlands are somehow inside the Rift of Aln.

Something something Elun = Aln?

[Cheezits]

If you think about it, the Haranir assets are vaguerly Emerald Nightmare-looking, kind of what I imagine the Emerald Nightmare stuff would look like if it wasn't corrupted.

Yeah, I do think the red thorns may have been hinting at this for a while.



The Rootlands being Nightmare/Old God themed would both tie into the Black Blood as well as a thematic flip on the Dream patch. And I can see the Haranir being inspired by the ever popular "Nightmare Druid" idea that a lot of druid players are really into.

[Cheezits]

Agreed, yeah.
Or are there little "rootlands" all over Azeroth in a radius with the Maelstrom in the middle? Which could explain lots of thorns and vines in the Barrens, Stormsong Valley, Zuldazar, etc.?

I think that may be the idea, specifically thorns. All the Quillboar areas are actually parts of the Rootlands jutting out into Azeroth and turning into thorns for whatever reason (maybe the roots turned into thorns as a defense mechanism), and the Quillboar are directly related to the Haranir. Though that wouldn't explain why the root area in Azj-Kahet is nice and Dream-looking instead.

I would've still preferred a Qiraji patch but I can see where they are going with this if it's dinosaur, nightmare and/or thorn related. "The Rift of Aln is one of the deepest things in Azeroth, and its unexplained, so lets do a patch about it in the Underground expansion"