Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Scyth]

Yea I'm a bit confused on that as well. I mean, the roadblock has always said early/mid summer, but are we gonna be spending 6-8 months in 11.2? Considering release is expected this time next year.

I find it hard to believe 11.1 will be shorter than 6 months tbh but we will see. I also expect MoP Classic to release around late July/early August so 11.2 launching at the end of August makes the most sense to me.

[Nymrohd]

Yea I'm a bit confused on that as well. I mean, the roadblock has always said early/mid summer, but are we gonna be spending 6-8 months in 11.2? Considering release is expected this time next year.

You need 20 weeks just to complete the Renown track for the Gallagio. Imo you should expect 11.2 on 26/8/2025. I do not see why they would diverge from the pattern they have set up.

This might just mean that 11.2 is very ambitious and thus needs more testing. Or maybe it uses some new tech that they need to get to a vendor built for troubleshooting?

But I do think we will be seeing PTR for 11.1.5 by the end of next week at the latest.

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Holy moly, I really do not like this car. This is annoying as hell to use. I'll keep trying it to see if it clicks, like dragonriding clicked for me quickly but this just feels bad.

edit: Ok I kind of got it now. Still not a fan but it isn't as bad as I was feeling initially.



Been killing rares no problem for the last hour.

Honestly I just put it on slow mode and it works just fine for rares and jobs. I will take the time to learn to use it on fast to do the racing events (and see if there are any achievements that needed) but slow is it for me.

[Joshuaj]

Listen to heavy metal, and the car is the best thing ever.

[Joshuaj]

We've got spaceships, cars, trains, planes, submarines, turrets, tanks, robots, mechs, industrial factories, oil refineries, radio, AC, and are likely VERY close to getting TVs in WoW, yet y'all wanna go and say this stuff doesn't feel like Warcraft. Crazy.

WoW's been on that technological and sci-fi journey for a while now. It's just become much more common place, much like how the cosmic stuff in WoW's become more common place.

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Now, I'm not sure we'll get a city like Solution Nine in WoW, or at least not in the near future (Not unless Ulduar got updates, or unless a Cosmic Realm has a city like that, or unless the Legion somehow missed a mighty world during their crusade, that is), but the fact we have this much should at least speak volumes lol.

[Super Dickmann]

Again, I think there's a fine balance you need to master for these things. Treading the line between immersive and immersion-breaking. For Warcraft, here's where I land on this topic:
]

Oh, come on, we were refining oil to make submarines in Warcraft 2, goblins are in the franchise's DNA, they were there before any dimensional spaceships.

First impressions are good, atmosphere and zone-wise. It's shamelessly exactly what it's going for and what it should be. The main plot, such as it is, is okay, though my antipathy for a basically zone-wide version of the irredeemable goblin unionization story in BFA makes me iffy with the main story, even as it's pretty entertaining. Gallywix needed even more screentime, since he at least is solid. Whether M+ is a carfire again come next week remains to be seen.

[Nymrohd]

The game always has a mix of steampunk and magi tech elements. It never went fully scifi outside maybe the Botanica? The steampunk elements have been part of the game since WC2 and the magi tech was overwhelmingly present in TBC and forward.

Also what part of Jazz requires tech? Sure it is anachronistic but the instruments used are much older.

[Nymrohd]

Acceleration is not modern lingo. It is a word used to describe increasing speed in physics for millennia. It's not a Botanica gene-splicer; which they did figure out was way to sci fi and never used as a concept again

[Nymrohd]

Its modern application dates back around 500 years or so, but even then I doubt your average horseman would cry out "accelerate, Bronko, accelerate!". I'd say the word gained more widespread used in connection to the rise of modern engineering in the 19th century.

And 19th century lingo is not sci fi. You cannot be ok with a gnome chopper and not with acceleration. Maybe you are not actually setting aside your bias.

[Nymrohd]

I am, actually, as long as the chopper is simply implied to be working (albeit a bit unpredictably so) because of the wondrous machinery inside. The cogs, the steam pipes, and so on. That's proper Warcraft. Once you start breaking it down into technical, modern lingo, then it falls apart (imo).

19th century is not modern. Steampunk and First Industrial Revolution terms go hand in hand. We had Steampunk vehicles on the 17th and 18th century. I'd get it if you focused on "drift" but Steampunk requires some basic mechanic terms to describe.

[Joshuaj]

Again, I think there's a fine balance you need to master for these things. Treading the line between immersive and immersion-breaking. For Warcraft, here's where I land on this topic:


----- SAFE ZONE -----

• Green forests.
• Elves and dwarves.
• A dark lord commanding his army of the dead.
• Swords, shields, and spellbooks.

----- THE LINE BEGINS -----

• Travelling between worlds using enchanted fortresses.
• Steampunky technology with spinning cogs and whistling steam vents.
• Postal service for sending in-game mail.
• Lore clearly inspired by real world mythology or culture, but narrowly dodging a copy by altering a few names (see Odyn, Harrison Jones, etc.).

----- THE LINE ENDS -----

• Selfie cameras and other technology which shouldn't function in the game-world, and thematically feels very jarring.
• Straight-up Jazz music being played in the background, or other types of music that just doesn't even seem like it would have been able to develop inside the game's world, or feels like it's taken from another type of setting than fantasy.
• RL people everybody knows turned into NPCs.
• Dungeon-finder tools and the like, which lack in-game explanations for how they work (although I've grown to accept this over the years).

----- YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR -----

There is no "fine line" to be had here. It's a varied fantasy world in a varied fantasy universe. Fantasy can utilize science fiction and things used in the real world.

Why are other fantasy verses allowed to go extra mile with things but not Warcraft? Warcraft is not like LoTR.

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I am, actually, as long as the chopper is simply implied to be working (albeit a bit unpredictably so) because of the wondrous machinery inside. The cogs, the steam pipes, and so on. That's proper Warcraft. Once you start breaking it down into technical, modern lingo, then it falls apart (imo).

You must have hated the Iron Horde then...

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The Iron Horde was basically all technological and industrial. Nothing "steampunk" about them.

[Limayria]

I love the jazz and hope they get even more varied with music in the future, one of the most hype parts of ff14 was all the different types of music they had

Id also be super disappointed if wow leaned too far into the "generic fantasy" angle I see people yearning for here. My favorite parts of wow have been the more out there aspects, like the TBC space ships or all the cool magitech titan stuff or even things like the etherals which break pretty far from your standard fantasy niche

Like maybe it's a hot take but I think the worst parts of Warcraft are the orcs, the humans and the faction conflict and even that seems to be something they're working on via the Arathi

[Joshuaj]

I love the jazz and hope they get even more varied with music in the future, one of the most hype parts of ff14 was all the different types of music they had

Id also be super disappointed if wow leaned too far into the "generic fantasy" angle I see people yearning for here. My favorite parts of wow have been the more out there aspects, like the TBC space ships or all the cool magitech titan stuff or even things like the etherals which break pretty far from your standard fantasy niche

Like maybe it's a hot take but I think the worst parts of Warcraft are the orcs, the humans and the faction conflict and even that seems to be something they're working on via the Arathi

In my speculation regarding the next Saga (which I have as Order Vs Disorder themed), I had an idea that the potential Disorder Lords could have different genres of music being played as their motifs. For example, the Disorder Lord responsible for the Felguards and Wrathlords could have heavy metal playing as it's motif, the Disorder Lord responsible for the Succubi and whatnot would have Lo-Fi music playing in the background, the Disorder Lord responsible for the Pit Lords and whatnot would have traditional, loud, savage tribal music playing in the background, another Disorder Lord would have Dubstep playing in the background, one could have rap playing, etc.

Idk, was just something I had a lil fun with haha.

[Enrif]

so, finally was able to play through the main story of undermine for now.

And yeah, my suspicion that these etherals are not working for Xal'atath have risen.

First. They appear after WE know where the darkfuse have hostages, and they try to stop us? Well, not really, they go for Noggenfogger and want to know where the Dark Heart is. If they would work for Xal'atath, they would know that the Heart is with Gallywix. So why go after Noggenfogger to get where the Dark Heart is? Instead of going directly to Gallywix? And we saw that Xal'atath can just teleport to Gallywix.

Second. The things Phase-Thief Azir says, don't make sense if we assume he works for Xal'atath. Especially once Noggenfogger reveals the location. Azir says: "Ah, but you just did. We'll be retrieving the Dark Heart now. My apologies." Why would Azir apology? Wouldn't he be gloating or behave otherwise?

Third. Alleria makes assumption about the Ethereals, not fact based statements. "That sounds like another Shadowguard ethereal. A minion of the Void.". She assumes these Ethereals are Shadowguard, but has no actual proof of it. And later again with: " Gallywix was repairing the Dark Heart for Xal'atath. But it seems she lost her patience with him and sent the ethereals to collect"

Fourth. The ethereals don't use shadow or void abilities. The casters use arcane attacks, and the melees use phase based attacks. If they were of the void or xal'atahts allies, wouldn't they use void powers? And they attack the darkfuse, which work for Gallywix, who works for Xal'atath. Shouldn't they work together?

I really think, these ethereals are not the same etherals Xal'atath used near Ulduar. And we have with Locus-Walker a void etherals that doesn't work with Xal'atath. This all feels like a setup for a bigger reveal about the etherals, especially about the void ethereals and perhaps the void itself. And given that we had raidicons for ethereal raid, Locus-Walker reveal about something similar to the radiant song on K'aresh, the ethereals in 11.0. and now the etherals here. That is a lot of stuff. 11.2. not being about ethereals is highly unlikely. I think the "rootlands" will be the next "siren isle", a small side area, but the ehtereals will be the main story.

[Sondrelk]

so, finally was able to play through the main story of undermine for now.

And yeah, my suspicion that these etherals are not working for Xal'atath have risen.

First. They appear after WE know where the darkfuse have hostages, and they try to stop us? Well, not really, they go for Noggenfogger and want to know where the Dark Heart is. If they would work for Xal'atath, they would know that the Heart is with Gallywix. So why go after Noggenfogger to get where the Dark Heart is? Instead of going directly to Gallywix? And we saw that Xal'atath can just teleport to Gallywix.

Second. The things Phase-Thief Azir says, don't make sense if we assume he works for Xal'atath. Especially once Noggenfogger reveals the location. Azir says: "Ah, but you just did. We'll be retrieving the Dark Heart now. My apologies." Why would Azir apology? Wouldn't he be gloating or behave otherwise?

Third. Alleria makes assumption about the Ethereals, not fact based statements. "That sounds like another Shadowguard ethereal. A minion of the Void.". She assumes these Ethereals are Shadowguard, but has no actual proof of it. And later again with: " Gallywix was repairing the Dark Heart for Xal'atath. But it seems she lost her patience with him and sent the ethereals to collect"

Fourth. The ethereals don't use shadow or void abilities. The casters use arcane attacks, and the melees use phase based attacks. If they were of the void or xal'atahts allies, wouldn't they use void powers? And they attack the darkfuse, which work for Gallywix, who works for Xal'atath. Shouldn't they work together?

I really think, these ethereals are not the same etherals Xal'atath used near Ulduar. And we have with Locus-Walker a void etherals that doesn't work with Xal'atath. This all feels like a setup for a bigger reveal about the etherals, especially about the void ethereals and perhaps the void itself. And given that we had raidicons for ethereal raid, Locus-Walker reveal about something similar to the radiant song on K'aresh, the ethereals in 11.0. and now the etherals here. That is a lot of stuff. 11.2. not being about ethereals is highly unlikely. I think the "rootlands" will be the next "siren isle", a small side area, but the ehtereals will be the main story.

I think you are forgetting the part where Gallywix tried to pull an obvious con on Xal'atath by witholding the Dark Heart for a better deal. The ethereals didnt know where the Dark Heart was because Gallywix was deliberately witholding that information. That's why in the final cutscene, Gallywix is trying desperately to explain how he was totally just about to call Xal'atath over to hand over teh Dark Heart, and totally didnt just talk about how the Dark Heart was how he was going to achieve world domination.

[Enrif]

I think you are forgetting the part where Gallywix tried to pull an obvious con on Xal'atath by witholding the Dark Heart for a better deal. The ethereals didnt know where the Dark Heart was because Gallywix was deliberately witholding that information. That's why in the final cutscene, Gallywix is trying desperately to explain how he was totally just about to call Xal'atath over to hand over teh Dark Heart, and totally didnt just talk about how the Dark Heart was how he was going to achieve world domination.

We don't know what Gallywix planned with the dark heart. It seemed he was geniunly terrified of xal'atath. We can only assume he wanted to keep the heart as long as possible as a insurance to not get on the bad side of xal'atath. But i think, we as players would have seen somewhere that he would do that, or that xal'atath is going impatient. But nothing like that happens in the story. Perhaps the post raid cinematic will clear this up. But for now, i remain suspicious of the ehtereals, that there might be another party in the whole story.

[Nymrohd]

Having Xal'atath work for one Void Lord (probably Dimensius) and the Void Ethereals working for a different one would work and add better dynamics to the story

[Enrif]

Having Xal'atath work for one Void Lord (probably Dimensius) and the Void Ethereals working for a different one would work and add better dynamics to the story

this is a possibility. I could also see them working for a dark prime naaru, something that has fallen to the void, but is not working for the void lords.

[Nymrohd]

this is a possibility. I could also see them working for a dark prime naaru, something that has fallen to the void, but is not working for the void lords.

Or the Void Lords are not working together. ONE of them gets to possess Azeroth and become the Dark Titan, not all of them. They are inherently in competition, no?

Also this could mean that the Void Lord the ethereals are serving is the one we face in the final raid of the expansion, leaving Xal'atath and Dimensius for Midnight. They are the ones who got the Dark Heart after all.

[Sondrelk]

Had a bit of a wander around Undermine, and Gallywix's notes are interesting. Obviously how he talks about witholding the Dark Heart from Xal'atath until he manages to make weapons in order to not be easily disposed of. But also how he mentions a trump card of sorts to ensure she doesnt double cross him. Something separate from the Black Blood weaponry his goons are using, and which he pursued specifically to take over Undermine.

[Capultro]

It is obvious that when Elune appears, the wardens will make their appearance, and the chakrams, the traps and the light of Elune and the shadows will envelop everything...and the dhs will tremble...