Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Eldryth]

That is a sentiment the story keeps revisiting, but its a little strange, because of all the Azerothian religions I don't think any of them worship the Titans.

They are the gods who created many of our playable races and influenced most others. Even if not many of us worship them (I think the Ironforge Dwarves at least used to?), most of us are still more or less their creations.


Anyway, a lot of Void teases tend to go nowhere (as they should, since they supposedly see all possibilities as true), but this isn't their usual cryptic hints- it's just a completely straightforward tease of exactly what Blizzard's setting up for The Last Titan. There's absolutely no way I can see the Pantheon making it out of that intact without the Saga- their big climax to the entire story so far- ending up completely anticlimactic.

We have two major plot threads leading into TLT so far- the Titans' big conspiracy, which so far is pointing towards them becoming our enemies; and Iridikron's plan to kill them when they return to fix what Xal'atath is about to do. Either they'll be major antagonists who we have to fight, get killed off by a villain like Iridikron to set the stakes, or some combination of the two. I can see some friendlier Titans like Eonar switching to our side, but there's no way the Pantheon makes it out of this unscathed.

What else would you expect, that isn't a complete departure from all the buildup? Iridikron's plan just fails, and the Titans' secrets turn out to be meaningless, so we just do something completely different from what Blizzard has been teasing?

[Nymrohd]

The race and the class were one at the time. I'm not sure what hill you're trying to die on, but they were missing from the original plunderstorm and nobody cared. If your big 'gotcha chud' moment is meant to be that I wrote Evokers, and not Drac'thyr, and somehow you couldn't figure that out, you're really making mountains out of molehills.

And my opinion that they could be left out of remix, an opinion, is inherently not wrong. So there's no L's for me to take here.

One of the big attractions of Remix is leveling new characters. Which is not related to Plunderstorm at all. Excluding any race or class from Remix would be so damn weird.

[Khaza-R]

I agree with your point that the Void prioritizes their path as I think the Titans also prioritize theirs, and so forth.

I wasn't necessarily taking Ul'thul's dialogue as fact for the future, but just flavor. It's sort of sad, even though the Old Gods have been our enemy, to imagine soldiers or particularly harbingers still fighting a war of atrition knowing that their cause is at an absolute end. They're Void aligned for sure, but their Gods have all been killed, so what really is their stake in it all?

So no, I don't think that Ul'thul's dialogue is a Ilya'noth level of plot suggestion, but just an interesting tidbit on how the members of the Black Empire view us.

Tbf, Old Gods and void-aligned enemies employ psychological warfare as a regular weapon. We've seen them do this with their whispers throughout all of WoW. Its less prophecy and more them trying to strike at individual fears.

Granted their could be some truth here about the titans since this is introduced in the saga and not from like 3 expansions ago that we are trying to force a connection. Still I wouldn't take it as indictation of anything.

[Sondrelk]

One of the big attractions of Remix is leveling new characters. Which is not related to Plunderstorm at all. Excluding any race or class from Remix would be so damn weird.

Especially when the worst case scenario for Evokers in Legion Remix is simply not having quite as many quests.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

The Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron

Ahh, vague, widely-applicable statements. Gotta love 'em. It'll get people digging up easter egg items from over a decade ago and connecting them to new lore.

[Tech614]

Especially when the worst case scenario for Evokers in Legion Remix is simply not having quite as many quests.

They could just repurpose the starting area and quests for Evokers into a class hall and it's quest line, in MoP remix you didn't do this at all so it's a way to add it to legion remix. Really not that much work tbh, it already has it's unique Evoker story line like the class hall lines did. Artifact weapons they can just give them reskins of their unique weapons from Vault and Abberus, give dev the staff and aug/pres the mace. In fact I'm like 50% sure they will do something along these lines, low effort and avoids any drawback from excluding them.

[Raetary]

The race and the class were one at the time. I'm not sure what hill you're trying to die on, but they were missing from the original plunderstorm and nobody cared. If your big 'gotcha chud' moment is meant to be that I wrote Evokers, and not Drac'thyr, and somehow you couldn't figure that out, you're really making mountains out of molehills.

And my opinion that they could be left out of remix, an opinion, is inherently not wrong. So there's no L's for me to take here.

Half the appeal of Remix is that you can quickly lvl a bunch of alts.
Restricting the pool of involved races/classes is antithetical to concept.

As for Plundestorm, idk what races/classes have to do with it.

Of course nobody cared about Dracthyr being available or not.
Plunderstorm is not an event that you make an actual character for, you just get to choose an appearance for a temporary gameplay vehicle.

[Joshuaj]

Tbf, Old Gods and void-aligned enemies employ psychological warfare as a regular weapon. We've seen them do this with their whispers throughout all of WoW. Its less prophecy and more them trying to strike at individual fears.

Granted their could be some truth here about the titans since this is introduced in the saga and not from like 3 expansions ago that we are trying to force a connection. Still I wouldn't take it as indictation of anything.

It's both. They utilize the Void's gift of seeing infinite pathways and deem them as "prophetic", and they utilize psychological warfare on their victims.

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It's funny, cause there is only really 1 group in WoW that can fully see destiny and everything, but outside of their influences, they themselves don't take much part in it.

[Sondrelk]

They could just repurpose the starting area and quests for Evokers into a class hall and it's quest line, in MoP remix you didn't do this at all so it's a way to add it to legion remix. Really not that much work tbh, it already has it's unique Evoker story line like the class hall lines did. Artifact weapons they can just give them reskins of their unique weapons from Vault and Abberus, give dev the staff and aug/pres the mace. In fact I'm like 50% sure they will do something along these lines, low effort and avoids any drawback from excluding them.

For the weapon there is the Nozdormu scythe which was never really used in-game. All the specs can use it, and it can tie into using the M+ portal area as a Class Hall. Doubly so fitting given the whole Bronze dragonflight timeline shenanigans. Probably the most likely if we get anything if I were to guess. Though the cave you start the Evoker class in would also work for sure.

Whether they get some questlines is more dubious though. I could see it happen given Neltharion's lair is there, as well as the aforementioned Bronze Dragonflight shenanigans. But my guess is that these things are lower on the list of priorities.

[Khaza-R]

It's both. They utilize the Void's gift of seeing infinite pathways and deem them as "prophetic", and they utilize psychological warfare on their victims.

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It's funny, cause there is only really 1 group in WoW that can fully see destiny and everything, but outside of their influences, they themselves don't take much part in it.

Agree. It's why I give credance to the N'zoth went into the dagger theory. Coupled with the Xal quote "But as was so often the case even defeat ultimately worked in N'zoth's favor" makes sense he sees that losing can ultimately lead to a path to success.

But in the same breathe its obvious they can't see everything or that they choose to ignore outcomes that lead to their own doom.

[Joshuaj]

Agree. It's why I give credance to the N'zoth went into the dagger theory. Coupled with the Xal quote "But as was so often the case even defeat ultimately worked in N'zoth's favor" makes sense he sees that losing can ultimately lead to a path to success.

But in the same breathe its obvious they can't see everything or that they choose to ignore outcomes that lead to their own doom.

I wasn't talking about the Void in my second paragraph.

And that is true, but ngl, I think the dagger's just gone. Like, it probably blew up at Ny'alotha.

[Limayria]

For the weapon there is the Nozdormu scythe which was never really used in-game. All the specs can use it, and it can tie into using the M+ portal area as a Class Hall. Doubly so fitting given the whole Bronze dragonflight timeline shenanigans. Probably the most likely if we get anything if I were to guess. Though the cave you start the Evoker class in would also work for sure.

Whether they get some questlines is more dubious though. I could see it happen given Neltharion's lair is there, as well as the aforementioned Bronze Dragonflight shenanigans. But my guess is that these things are lower on the list of priorities.

i could see there being a small quest line involving the infinite and bronze dragons doing something with evokers explaining why were back in legion lore wise, like an exapnded version of the intro quest to mop remix

[Khaza-R]

And that is true, but ngl, I think the dagger's just gone. Like, it probably blew up at Ny'alotha.

But it didn't. We literally have no idea what happened to it as of yet.

[Kiivar86]

Where? can you link it?

They were datamined a while before it actually but here's a link to the post with some pictures.

[Cheezits]

Blizzard very likely is keeping the dagger's fate ambiguous as it can be for two specific narrative threads:

1. N'zoth, or something from his essence, can exist past his defeat in BFA in a way to bring him back (or partially, if they decide his essence makes a Wrathion 2) without timetravel or ressurection magic (though they may tie DF's time warp in as how N'zoth planned ahead)

2. The dagger may, ironically, help us kill Xal or imprison her once again, if she can't be killed

[Joshuaj]

But it didn't. We literally have no idea what happened to it as of yet.

So, did you not read the word "probably"? Or?

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So I found this, not sure if it was talked about earlier or not.
Icon names are inv_tabard_pvp_11season3_d_01 and inv_cape_pvp_11season3_d_01



For reference, the PvP tabards/capes for 11.0 were Nerubian themed, and 11.1 are Undermine themed. So this appearance is definitely tied to the 11.2 patch.

Any ideas? I'm thinking it means the 'etherealraid' is happening in 11.2 after all - the outfit looks more Ethereal than it does Xal'atath (imo), though it could just be copium on my part.

Elun'ahir zone and maybe raid, with the Worldcore as the final raid boss location.

[milkmustache]

I'm wondering if Blizzard sort of "spoiled" the patch zones in the gathering nodes.

"E-Z Mine" Ores were clearly Goblin related. The "Sporefused" Herbs could give us hints at what major themes in the Rootlands or next zone could look like.

I'm not as certain on this as I was with the E-Z Mine being an Undermine hint as general fungi related things make sense for an underground zone, but at least the drops of "Viridescent Spores" being described as "A cluster of spores, teeming with life energy." could paint a picture of a very fluorescent Rootlands.

[Cheezits]

I think the tabard and cape are Xal themed because she will be the final boss of TWW and likely be the big theme of the patch, despite it being in the Rootlands.

[Eldryth]

I'm wondering if Blizzard sort of "spoiled" the patch zones in the gathering nodes.

"E-Z Mine" Ores were clearly Goblin related. The "Sporefused" Herbs could give us hints at what major themes in the Rootlands or next zone could look like.

I'm not as certain on this as I was with the E-Z Mine being an Undermine hint as general fungi related things make sense for an underground zone, but at least the drops of "Viridescent Spores" being described as "A cluster of spores, teeming with life energy." could paint a picture of a very fluorescent Rootlands.

There's also a bunch of Herbalist knowledge items with names referencing a "Deepgrove", which could be the actual name for the Rootlands (since "Rootlands was only ever named in early datamining, and even the Haranir were renamed since then).

I think the tabard and cape are Xal themed because she will be the final boss of TWW and likely be the big theme of the patch, despite it being in the Rootlands.

It definitely looks way more like Xal'atath than Ethereals to me. And wherever we go, I'm sure she'll be the final boss of the expansion.

Us entering the Worldcore through the Rootlands seems like the best fit to me, to address the two biggest TWW-specific plot hooks left. Since the Haranir are the only race known to actively worship and commune with Azeroth herself, it makes sense for them to have access to her.

[Foolicious]

I'm wondering if Blizzard sort of "spoiled" the patch zones in the gathering nodes.

"E-Z Mine" Ores were clearly Goblin related. The "Sporefused" Herbs could give us hints at what major themes in the Rootlands or next zone could look like.

I'm not as certain on this as I was with the E-Z Mine being an Undermine hint as general fungi related things make sense for an underground zone, but at least the drops of "Viridescent Spores" being described as "A cluster of spores, teeming with life energy." could paint a picture of a very fluorescent Rootlands.

There is also the herbalism knowledge items that had some people speculating the rootlands zone will be named deepgrove.
They are for sure in the game because of the rootlands. But its hard to tell right now if all these hints are in the game because it was planned and then scrapped or because its planned as last zone of tww.