Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nibelheimy]

Blizzard very likely is keeping the dagger's fate ambiguous as it can be for two specific narrative threads:

1. N'zoth, or something from his essence, can exist past his defeat in BFA in a way to bring him back (or partially, if they decide his essence makes a Wrathion 2) without timetravel or ressurection magic (though they may tie DF's time warp in as how N'zoth planned ahead)

2. The dagger may, ironically, help us kill Xal or imprison her once again, if she can't be killed

Absolutely on the train of Xal's elven form being the final boss of this expansion.

We will then have her throughout the saga or at least in Midnight in her true form.

It would be interesting for the heroes the retrieve the dagger to re-imprison her in it, only to realise they have to set N'zoth free in doing so.

[Black Rider]

They were datamined a while before it actually but here's a link to the post with some pictures.

Sounds fantastic, Ethereal themed raid and dungeon should be cool, like Tazavesh

[Nymrohd]

On the Evokers for Legion Remix idea, I would not expect much tbh. I do think they will get some form of Artifact weapons, as others said using their existing class-specific weapons from DF, because I assume that is where the infinite progression system of Remix will be attached to.
One thing that will need to be added in some form is a base for all the Timerunning stuff. Legion did not exactly leave spaces unused. Perhaps as someone has mentioned, we could have a portal to the Timeways?

[Eldryth]

One other thing they might need to consider for Evokers in Remix- will they be doing any variation of the Mage Tower in it? If so, then Evokers would need rewards for that as well, and they'd need to pick challenges for Dev and Aug.

[Nymrohd]

The Old God in that last picture looks so damn much like a plushie. UWU

It's like Bubbles' octopus plushie that got possessed by HIM.

[Joshuaj]

The Old God in that last picture looks so damn much like a plushie. UWU

It's like Bubbles' octopus plushie that got possessed by HIM.

Who says that's an Old God?

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Hmm, gee I wonder what 11.2 will be about.

Ngl, this feels like a small reach. Like, I get why you'd connect this stuff, but the tabard just looks like an Ethereal/Xal'atath mix.

[Auxis]

I wonder if Xal's outfit, tattoos, and/or jewlery were a post-possession choice, or if that is what the elf was wearing when Xal possessed her?

Because it feels odd for a void entity to give a sh*t about an outfit, when I think the most clothing we've seen any void entity wear up until now has been shoulder pads and maybe a hood depending on the entity (the void revenant things like the Xhul'horac boss or w/e he's called probably have the most drip), and maybe bracers which are usually binding items.

[Dracullus]

Finished all available quests and I'm genuinely surprised how good Undermine is compared to most-- scratch that, to any patch zone ever released. And I'm speaking as someone who didn't care at all about Goblins.

First time I can say that patch zone isn't just pretext for some catch up rewards and place to put new raid it. I have no problem saying it's on part with any TWW launch zone, including Hallowfall and Azj'Kahet.

[Cheezits]

Nah, they are all the same. They show the Beledar falling to Azeroth, a.k.a. the fallen star, from the heavens above.

Now the question remains, has that been retconned since they stopped talking about the fallen star, and started babbling about coalesced worldsoul goo instead? Maybe. But the art is definitely showing us the "fall".

On the topic of stars, I wonder if the "Voice of the Silent Star" (the rare cape from Sarkareth that talks to you) has any relation to Beledar. TWW was being worked on at the time and the only Star we keep hearing about is Beledar, which turns to void sometimes. Maybe the voice is the Naaru(?) inside?

[Nymrohd]

Nah, they are all the same. They show the Beledar falling to Azeroth, a.k.a. the fallen star, from the heavens above.

Now the question remains, has that been retconned since they stopped talking about the fallen star, and started babbling about coalesced worldsoul goo instead? Maybe. But the art is definitely showing us the "fall".

Story-wise, Undermine is amazing. Gameplay . . . it's ok imo. Plenty of zones had better gameplay.

[Joshuaj]

Considering the Naaru are called stars, not sure this is talking about a Light Lord.

If it is one of the Lords of Light, Dimensius itself would want to claim it personally.

[Alanar]

Story-wise, Undermine is amazing. Gameplay . . . it's ok imo. Plenty of zones had better gameplay.

Played through it for a couple of days and there is one thing that annoys me and I actually said this before this went live.

But, this place Undermine, feels very dissconnected from the world. In the sense that, it doesnt even feel this is on kezen. Why isnt the starting area part of this gameplay. Why isnt the old dungeon intigrated in the world. I wanted Undermine on the map, on kezan. This just feels like a separate map/ phased area, somewhere, random on a bc map and not in the actual world.

Missed opportunity, to not have the actual island Kezan back in action. The clusterfuck of items and doodads make Undermine feel larger then it is. Dont get me wrong I love the style of the hotel etc, but the city doesnt feel that large. Especially with the car. I am just missing an outside area or some dock to make it feel connected. It would have been better if the entrence was in the actual starting area. To atleast have a feeling you are going under the volcano or under kezan, where its suppose to be.
Same with Zin" Ashari, ai dont like they put in these famous places without putting it properly on the world map. I mean the cant even do it right. Clicking on kul tiras or zandalar makes you super confused where it is on the map. One island shows it on the left of and the other ride side. The whole map is a mess imo. Slight frustration point for me.

[Nymrohd]

Played through it for a couple of days and there is one thing that annoys me and I actually said this before this went live.

But, this place Undermine, feels very dissconnected from the world. In the sense that, it doesnt even feel this is on kezen. Why isnt the starting area part of this gameplay. Why isnt the old dungeon intigrated in the world. I wanted Undermine on the map, on kezan. This just feels like a separate map/ phased area, somewhere, random on a bc map and not in the actual world.

Missed opportunity, to not have the actual island Kezan back in action. The clusterfuck of items and doodads make Undermine feel larger then it is. Dont get me wrong I love the style of the hotel etc, but the city doesnt feel that large. Especially with the car. I am just missijg an outside area or some dock to make it feel connected.

The starting area would be a tiny part of Kezan. There is also the dungeon btw. They'd need to create a new zone from scratch for this to work. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it too but it is a lot of work and it would only make sense if Kezan was the expansion instead of what we got. Which maybe would have been better cause the Earthen are fun and all but I cannot see them being part of the story at any point after TWW. While you could have had the story happen in Kezan instead, kept Hallowfall and Azj'kahet and added a Titan-themed zone as the midway patch.

[milkmustache]

Hmm, gee I wonder what 11.2 will be about.

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This set of images was already discussed a few weeks ago... I think there's a clear difference between design choices and story links in some of these. As someone who is 100% in the Beledar = Naaru star camp, I'm not entirely certain these images are drawing the point that you're making, but I think I see what you're saying.

Arathi armor has embellishments that represent the Sacred Flame, suns, and stars, but I don't think that means they're referencing Beledar. It's entirely possible they are referencing Naaru imagery with the connection the Arathi and Mereldar has with the Naaru and the Light, but I think we're a little far down that chain for that to be the case unless it's retconned that the Arathi have been in contact with the Naaru in recent times.

I'm still wholly uncertain what the Old God mural is. I suppose it could be Xal'atath at some point, but I really have no idea where they're going with that.

But...

It seems to me that the most telegraphed direction they're following is that Xal'atath was a 5th Old God, perhaps the leader of them, who was burrowed under Khaz Algar, the closest to the world soul. She was then killed, either in a fight with her brothers out of some form of animosity, or from any of the other major forces at play like the Titans, Elune, or the Light.

Whatever the outcome of this battle was, her body was not removed or imprisoned, and so it entered a state of decay thus seeping the world with her blood, the black blood, which had powers that were unrealized until she returned, or maybe ruptured by Sargeras' sword. The black blood still affected the area, so the Haranir served as some sort of guardians for the roots to ensure they did not become infected by the blood. My belief here is that the roots had burrowed extremely deep and close to the world soul, and that's why Aman'thul ripped Elun'ahir from the earth. Xal'atah may have seen this and filled it's gap, plotting to get closer to the soul. The blood that remains has attempted to seep through the roots and infect the world soul, but has been staved off up until now by the Haranir. Xal'atath wants to use the black blood and the Dark Heart to finally make her gambit at the soul.

Maybe you're right though, and what killed her turns out not to be her siblings, but something related to Beledar and the Naaru. Seeing as Midnight's hook is the battle between Light & Shadow, it would make sense to have Xal'atath and the Light have a personal background, especially through Beledar and in turn, the Arathi.

So same guess as always. 11.1.5 is Beledar/Arathi based, 11.2 is Rootlands with a Rootlands/Worldcore raid.

[Alanar]

The starting area would be a tiny part of Kezan. There is also the dungeon btw. They'd need to create a new zone from scratch for this to work. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it too but it is a lot of work and it would only make sense if Kezan was the expansion instead of what we got. Which maybe would have been better cause the Earthen are fun and all but I cannot see them being part of the story at any point after TWW. While you could have had the story happen in Kezan instead, kept Hallowfall and Azj'kahet and added a Titan-themed zone as the midway patch.

I get it, the starting area was only a small part, but same as the dungeon. It just would feel better if the Undermine entrance would actually be on Kezan and not yet again another portal.. tricking us we are there, when we arent really. It just would have been better if this was connected in someway. Especislly the starting area really gave you a feeling you were in the middle of the goblin action. Huge factorys in the back. Undermine has the vibe, but just feels as some instanced area. This could have been literslly everywhere on the map, it wouldnt even matter.

Just feels dissconnected, but ye.. I knew this from the beginning. Just sad they couksnt even bother putting it on the map of Kezan for example. I wish they would do better on tge world map.

[elderu]

It seems to me that the most telegraphed direction they're following is that Xal'atath was a 5th Old God, perhaps the leader of them, who was burrowed under Khaz Algar, the closest to the world soul. She was then killed, either in a fight with her brothers out of some form of animosity, or from any of the other major forces at play like the Titans, Elune, or the Light.

In case you missed it (it triggers during a random hand-in during Hallowfall campaign):

Alleria is asked "Xal'atath is from the Black Empire?? One of the Old Gods?"

And she replies: "No.. Something else. A survivor from the depths of time."

So I think we can rule out the 5th Old God thing for her.

Honestly the most surface level thing for her probably IS a Void-aligned Dreadlord, given her tactics and behavior and armor (I mean Archmage Drenden was Nathrezim 101). They've been known to possess corpses like her too. Her quotes about them are usually either disappointed (varimathras) or almost impressed (mephistroth).

I was thinking for a while she was a full-on dark Naaru or being similar to that, given her silhouette and Beledar connections- but really what's to stop a Nathrezim from doing the same naaru-absorbtion that Alleria did? So, even if it feels cringe or odd, Xal's 'brethren' may not be Old Gods after all.

Shes keen on harvesting our Fury, our 'Wrath'. Revendreth has a missing Harvester of Wrath who was supposedly Denathrius' wife I think? (the guy with a talking weapon....) Naaru attacked there a long time ago too..

[Limayria]

In case you missed it (it triggers during a random hand-in during Hallowfall campaign):

Alleria is asked "Xal'atath is from the Black Empire?? One of the Old Gods?"

And she replies: "No.. Something else. A survivor from the depths of time."

So I think we can rule out the 5th Old God thing for her.

Honestly the most surface level thing for her probably IS a Void-aligned Dreadlord, given her tactics and behavior and armor (I mean Archmage Drenden was Nathrezim 101). They've been known to possess corpses like her too. Her quotes about them are usually either disappointed (varimathras) or almost impressed (mephistroth).

I was thinking for a while she was a full-on dark Naaru or being similar to that, given her silhouette and Beledar connections- but really what's to stop a Nathrezim from doing the same naaru-absorbtion that Alleria did? So, even if it feels cringe or odd, Xal's 'brethren' may not be Old Gods after all.

Shes keen on harvesting our Fury, our 'Wrath'. Revendreth has a missing Harvester of Wrath who was supposedly Denathrius' wife I think? (the guy with a talking weapon....) Naaru attacked there a long time ago too..

and there were dreadlords connected to void on the planet sargeras saw as well i believe? Tho i'm still holding out Xal will be seen much more morally grey in the end, I could see her being a void Thraegar almost with her trying to destroy azeorths prison in her own way and the shadow etherals chasing her are deminius aligned trying to get back at Xal for betraying them

But I also think midnights 12.0 story is gonna end with us stopping the void at the sunwell and the mainline Arathi empire betraying us with the "story mode" quest for that raid having not only the fight against Xal in the sunwell but also a scenario of us running to escape the arathi who betrayed us with Air ship's and Naaru in the sky as the light comes to claim the world soul away from the titans

[Joshuaj]

In case you missed it (it triggers during a random hand-in during Hallowfall campaign):

Alleria is asked "Xal'atath is from the Black Empire?? One of the Old Gods?"

And she replies: "No.. Something else. A survivor from the depths of time."

So I think we can rule out the 5th Old God thing for her.

Honestly the most surface level thing for her probably IS a Void-aligned Dreadlord, given her tactics and behavior and armor (I mean Archmage Drenden was Nathrezim 101). They've been known to possess corpses like her too. Her quotes about them are usually either disappointed (varimathras) or almost impressed (mephistroth).

I was thinking for a while she was a full-on dark Naaru or being similar to that, given her silhouette and Beledar connections- but really what's to stop a Nathrezim from doing the same naaru-absorbtion that Alleria did? So, even if it feels cringe or odd, Xal's 'brethren' may not be Old Gods after all.

Shes keen on harvesting our Fury, our 'Wrath'. Revendreth has a missing Harvester of Wrath who was supposedly Denathrius' wife I think? (the guy with a talking weapon....) Naaru attacked there a long time ago too..

Wanna know what I believe?

She is a Void entity that was sent by Dimensius to keep the Old Gods "in line", but due to the Old Gods' nature, they went against Xal'atath, killed her, and turned her into a weapon for sacrificial purposes, etc.

Sure, failing to keep the Old Gods in line would suck, but as long as they do what they do for the Void's victory, death is but a small price to pay.

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Of course, that is my theory, and anything goes at this rate. Maybe she is a Naaru, or maybe the Naaru were once former Void guys that were changed by the Lords of Light + members of the Lords of Life.

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The latter could be possible btw, based off Xal'atath's comments on the Naaru in Legion.

[Cheezits]

Yknow, last we saw of Xal messing with Beledar, she was taking shadow OUT of it.

Wouldn't this, in theory, drain the crystal of Void and restore it to light? How does this work with a patch called NIGHTFALL?

[Joshuaj]

Yknow, last we saw of Xal messing with Beledar, she was taking shadow OUT of it.

Wouldn't this, in theory, drain the crystal of Void and restore it to light? How does this work with a patch called NIGHTFALL?

I think it's more so the idea that she's taking the magics of Beledar and converting it to Void. Like, the Dark Heart consumes the power, the Void twists it.

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Surely the dagger would be by accident. Why would they choose to preserve her essence? To mock her?

I'm guessing somebody used the blade to murder her, and it was a stroke of fate that she ended up being preserved inside of it.

I could see the Old Gods turning on her, though. They had probably gotten rather comfortable with the idea of living on Azeroth, slowly feasting on its worldsoul and ruling over its inhabitants. Why else would they even form an empire, unless they had a desire to rule (not destroy)?

It would be a funny turn of events if Queen Azshara represented that part of the Old God legacy -- the desire to rule over a vast empire, rather than see it all go up in flames -- so her return marks the beginning of a Void-on-Void conflict. Perhaps they end up representing different Void Lords, or maybe Queen Azshara is some type of Illidan-esque figure who once betrayed her people but now seeks to use that power to unmake the source of her newfound powers - the Void.

A bit like Kerrigan, the Queen of Blades. Wasn't she also a renegade force within the Zerg, killing its former cerebrates or whatever until she could rule alone?

Edit:

Actually that makes a lot of sense, now that I think of it. It fits Queen Azshara's character perfectly to defy her subjugators and seek to rule alone. It's basically the relationship she wanted with N'Zoth. Maybe she's on a quest to destroy the Void Lord Dimensius and rule over a "swarm" unchallenged, with Azeroth as the crown jewel of her galactic domain?

I don't think all those Naga prophesies suggested that the Naga are allied to Xal'atath, did they? They merely said that a bunch of things need to come to pass before Queen Azshara returns. So maybe Azshara needs this "awakening" to occur, before making her entrance.

What the awakening is remains to be seen, though.

Is it the worldsoul, so she can enslave it once it's fully awake and no longer protected inside the Worldcore?

Is it Xal'atath's former body, so she can be truly slain once and for all?

Is it some immense beast that Azshara intends to enslave?

Is it the 5th Old God?

No clue!

Yes. I don't think the Old Gods are above mocking their victims

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Also, not quite sure about the Kerrigan comparisons, but I see where you're going with it. As for the questions? Lemme answer one by one.

1. Pretty sure Azshara is awaiting for Azeroth's awakening. And I think she wants Azeroth's power in order to become the most powerful "goddess" or summ like that. Makes sense, as Worldsouls are busted, especially Azeroth's. Why? Only the First Ones and maybe the Titans truly know.

2. Don't think it's Xal'atath's former body, but Xal'atath is ancient. I think she's just the All-Devouring's herald, much like how the Lich King was supposed to be Zovaals herald (Til it failed miserably), or how Deathwing was the Old Gods' herald, etc.

3. Don't think so.

4. Don't think so. If you want me to be honest, if Blizzard explores the 5 Old God stuff further, I think some of Xal'atath's remains were scattered across Azeroth in some form, and the Titans just presumed it an Old God due to its fleshy nature and whatnot.

But, if a 5th Old God does exist, it's most likely not located at the known regions of Azeroth. This uhm...would be terrifying if true.

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@elderu Speaking of Wrath, if Disorder Lords do exist, I would love it if there was a Saga based around them and their battle against the Titans, and one of those Lords was the originator of the felguards, the wrath demons, etc. This embodiment of rage, wrath, etc would then throw our player characters in a bunch of crazy ass ordeals, both because they feel like it, and because they want to see if we're as wrathful as people claimed.

It would be so cool if this happened, and ngl, a Disorder counterpart of Sargeras would be sick.