Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Kil'jaeden ain't Dimensius (Would be like comparing Azshara to Zovaal, or Helya to Sargeras), and Dimensius hasn't been built up as the final boss for TWW. If anything, he seems to be built up for Midnight.

[allegrian]

Another (former) horde leader down, and the responsibles for the fourth war are finally dealt with. Man bfa let so many unfinished businesses that 2 out of the last 3 patches are dealing with its aftermath (and if we count xalatath being released in bfa, even more).

[Eldryth]

I think it's premature to assume that K'aresh in 11.2 would mean a less epic climax for Midnight at this point. In the now-likely event that we do go to K'aresh next as the teaser suggests, then they're in the process of pulling off one of the biggest twists in WoW to date, and are giving TWW a much more exciting climax than anyone reasonably expected. WoW's story has never been this unpredictable. So why assume Midnight would be more straightforward?

Maybe 12.2 will be our real attempt to save the Worldcore.

Maybe we'll enter the Void itself.

Maybe Azshara will hijack the invasion and we'll fight her in Zin-Azshari proper- the grand city that BFA glossed over.

I was definitely a strong believer in Midnight K'aresh until I saw that cutscene, combined with that remark (which, admittedly, I can't seem to find again) about us knowing where 11.2 was going at the end of the current story. But a massive twist here just means that the same is possible in the coming expansions.

He also said we'd know by the end of Vault of Incarnates who the big bad of Dragonflight was. And then people misconstrued it as Iridikron, who went through a void portal to someplace else to come back later, while Fyrakk and the ED/World Tree storyline was being built in front of us.

Yeah, they didn't really keep that promise for Dragonflight, but I still suspect that it was intended to be true at the time and Dragonflight's story was changed to lead into the Worldsoul Saga after Metzen returned a week later. So much of it feels like it was cut short- between Iridikron leaving halfway through, Vyranoth's redemption being so rushed, and the Green and Reds sharing the Emerald Dream story with neither getting the focus they really needed... It feels like there was meant to be one more tier with Alexstrasza and Vyranoth fighting Iridikron, but they got crammed into the Dream story instead because Iridikron got turned into a longer-term threat.

That said, this is an unproven suspicion, and we'll probably never know for sure if it's actually true.

[allegrian]

If K'aresh is the setting of 11.2 then I think that whole plot line was something they just abandonded.

TWW definitely had a different finale planned before they came up with the WSS so some things are going to be cut naturally.

That's what I've been thinking since the start (even before that). It feels like Metzen came in with TWW almost done, so he ran with it but changed part of its story and main characters to focus on the upcoming Midnigt + TLT plot and villain. That's why queen ansurek feels so unimportant, earthen do absolutely nothing outside their starting zones and both Haranir and arathi feel so random and semi-abanoned. I'm sure they'll try to salvage whatever they had about the haranir in upcoming patches, and they'll be leaving the arathi for a future expansion.

TWW's story was finished on 11.0, we're now getting a side story and 11.2 will just be a prologue to midnight probably.

Hell, the opening cinematic for the expansion is 100% unrelated to Khaz Algar.

[Darkarath]

Kil'jaeden ain't Dimensius (Would be like comparing Azshara to Zovaal, or Helya to Sargeras), and Dimensius hasn't been built up as the final boss for TWW. If anything, he seems to be built up for Midnight.

Kil'jaeden at the time was second only to Sargeras. Void Lords, the Shadowlands, the Titans being alive... Were not a thing back then. So I would say that they are pretty similar if you do not take in account the inevitable growing inflation in power over the years.

Was Argus built as a final boss in Legion?

Was Archimonde built as a final boss in WoD?

Hell, even N'zoth in BfA and Fyrakk in DF were not expected as final bosses at all until the final patch was released.

I am not saying that Dimensius will be the final boss of TWW, but if we go to K'aresh in 11.2 (and it is quite clear IMO that we are going there), is either Xal'athat or Dimensius.

[Mackud]

We did not kill Kil'jaeden in TBC even if he was the final boss of the expansion.

Yeah but we already knew he wasn't gone permanently so we knew it didn't end there, I think everyone who's even played Warcraft 3 knows if you kill a member of the Burning legion outside of either the void or Argus, they respawn back at home.

Hence why they showed everyone you killed back in Outland, Draenor and Azeroth standing behind Gul'Dan when he invaded the Broken Shore.

You are right however like the Legion will be a threat again, because the number of Burning Legion we killed which fitted the criteria to permanently kill them is actually quite small, on top of my head there's only Varimathras, Balnazzar, Kil'Jaedan and Archimonde being the only major casualties so far - I could have missed a few but only ones on top of my head.

But do you see why it wouldn't fit to write a saga where you don't eliminate a threat permanently? There's other Void threats elsewhere to write about already, for example the Arakkoa were 99% successful in summoning their Old god in Outland, and Netherwing Ledge was and still is reeked by it as a result - I have absolutely no idea how they'd tie it in with Azeroth, but just because 1 Void threat is gone, it doesn't mean the entire thread has been neutralised

Literally everyone knew N'Zoth was the final boss by the way, when the previous raids had his personal envoy and before that was a Harbinger of the Void even Stevie Wonder saw the story was going a different direction from the Horde v Alliance stuff. It would be a bit weird to send your personal envoy to defend Queen Azshara otherwise.

[Cheezits]

It's very endearing that Xal keeps fucking up.

[Scyth]

K’aresh here we come!

Although im not sure if we go there similar to Argus but I doubt we get this trailer and we don’t go there until Midnight.

Question is what happens to Orweyna and the other bat people if we go K’aresh in 11.2?

I love that the Ethereals aren’t working for Xal though and we now get a 3rd party involved.

[Mackud]

12.0 - Troll Raid / The dead C'thraxxi underneath Zul'Aman, conveniently placed where the main setting of Midnight will be
12.1 - Quel'Danas
12.2 K'aresh/Argus 2.0

Nailed on at this point

[Joshuaj]

12.0 - Troll Raid / The dead C'thraxxi underneath Zul'Aman, conveniently placed where the main setting of Midnight will be
12.1 - Quel'Danas
12.2 K'aresh/Argus 2.0

Nailed on at this point

That's what I've been saying!

[Mackud]

If you goto Zulzadar before the events of Zul showing his true colours and speak to the emissaries you'll get an idea of which tribes to expect to show up

Amani and Gurubashi didn't send an emissary, hated the idea of Zandalar joining the horde and sent assassins
Hinterland Trolls were happy with it but staying neutral (as of BFA) - Serious Allied race possibility
Sand Trolls have called it quits as they've been battered twice now, once in Zul'Farrak, 2nd time Call of Thunder
Frost Trolls is a sadder one however. They answered the Call of Thunder straight after the war with Lich King without replenishing the ranks and all died making the emissary the sole survivor. It's hard to imagine Frost trolls in the Ghostlands anyways but the emissary confirms for you they're extinct.

[Cheezits]

What if Azir is a good guy? Unsure why he would hate Alleria/kill people, but I can see him (and maybe the Nexus-Princess) wanting the Dark Heart to reverse the damage to K'aresh.

[Eldryth]

What if Azir is a good guy? Unsure why he would hate Alleria/kill people, but I can see him (and maybe the Nexus-Princess) wanting the Dark Heart to reverse the damage to K'aresh.

He does use Void portals. I had thought that Locus-Walker was the only non-corrupted Void Ethereal, but looking back for the actual source of that, it looks like I misremembered Alleria assuming he was the only Void Ethereal period (when it was proven wrong by the Shadowguard). So I guess it's possible.

Maybe he's even working for (or with) Locus-Walker. And if something like that is the case- will they actually be our enemies, or will we work with them to fight some other threat on K'aresh (probably another Ethereal faction or Xal'atath)?

[Viridiel]

Why is anybody assuming the climax of Midnight will be fighting the void when we've specifically been told the story will involve our fight against the Void not going to plan and spiralling out of control? Midnight is our bridge into the Last Titan.

What if they swapped the Rootlands and Karesh's placement to spice things up?

We already know the Rootlands are likely not in Khaz Algar. Something happens to the world soul to lead to 13.0. So maybe Orweyna's arc is happening after we fix Quel'thalas? Something something "she's an elf"?

The Rootlands are west of Azj'kahet. The location has already been mapped out by the devs.

I still think it's quite likely the 11.2 zone will be Rootlands but the raid will be on K'aresh. Everything points to it right now.

[Mackud]

What if Azir is a good guy? Unsure why he would hate Alleria/kill people, but I can see him (and maybe the Nexus-Princess) wanting the Dark Heart to reverse the damage to K'aresh.

The Shadowguard tried to take Argus the Unmaker for themselves and we'd have to all uninstall and unsub until 2026 as the story is finished now by that logic.

Argus wasn't just messed up because it was Burning Legion territory but they unknowingly unintentionally created a Dark Naaru which acted as a power source for the Void until Alleria absorbed it.

The Burning Legion had already killed a Naaru in the Battle for Exodar, so there was zero reason to keep this one alive, on their home planet of all places, for other than story continuation purposes

[Joshuaj]

Why is anybody assuming the climax of Midnight will be fighting the void when we've specifically been told the story will involve our fight against the Void not going to plan and spiralling out of control? Midnight is our bridge into the Last Titan.



The Rootlands are west of Azj'kahet. The location has already been mapped out by the devs.

I still think it's quite likely the 11.2 zone will be Rootlands but the raid will be on K'aresh. Everything points to it right now.

K'aresh is probably Midnight content.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey guys...have we taken to account yet that maybe the core of K'aresh became a portal to the Void? Maybe K'aresh's soul is being used to power it, and thus Dimensius' influence could not only spread across the Physical Universe, but also consume the energies of the Physical Universe as well?

That COULD explain the swirl that goes outwards from the pink energy orb.

- - - Updated - - -

That pink energy orb may or may not be a mixture of Arcane and Void energies. I don't see it being Void-only, especially if we're to assume that's K'aresh's Worldsoul (Or at least the core housing the soul), or is a portal from within the core that's being powered by K'aresh's Worldsoul.

[Mackud]

K'aresh is probably Midnight content.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey guys...have we taken to account yet that maybe the core of K'aresh became a portal to the Void? Maybe K'aresh's soul is being used to power it, and thus Dimensius' influence could not only spread across the Physical Universe, but also consume the energies of the Physical Universe as well?

That COULD explain the swirl that goes outwards from the pink energy orb.

- - - Updated - - -

That pink energy orb may or may not be a mixture of Arcane and Void energies. I don't see it being Void-only, especially if we're to assume that's K'aresh's Worldsoul (Or at least the core housing the soul), or is a portal from within the core that's being powered by K'aresh's Worldsoul.

No. You don't need that much energy if a Level 10 Void Elf Rogue can make a portal to the void.

I think you're misinterpreting what the "void" is, in real life it would just be any place which is beyond the solar system, like beyond Neptune and Pluto, just far far away, unhabituated, no one will ever go and will ever be able to go there, just completely out the way.

[Joshuaj]

No. You don't need that much energy if a Level 10 Void Elf Rogue can make a portal to the void.

I think you're misinterpreting what the "void" is, in real life it would just be any place which is beyond the solar system, like beyond Neptune and Pluto, just far far away, unhabituated, no one will ever go and will ever be able to go there, just completely out the way.

Okay, here's the thing.

1. Portals fluctuate depending on the power source. Any person can make a portal to the Void. No normal person can summon a neigh planet sized portal for an entity like Dimensius The All-Devouring.

And 2. You're not really getting what the Void is in WoW. Yes, the Void functions in the physical universe as empty spaces where there is no light, especially between solar systems and planets and whatnot. However, the Void is also a cosmic realm where the Void Lords rule from.

- - - Updated - - -

It is quite literally the Realm of Shadow, the kingdom of that influence. Much like how the Shadowlands is the Realm of Death, the kingdom of that influence.

[Mackud]

Okay, here's the thing.

1. Portals fluctuate depending on the power source. Any person can make a portal to the Void. No normal person can summon a neigh planet sized portal for an entity like Dimensius The All-Devouring.

And 2. You're not really getting what the Void is in WoW. Yes, the Void functions in the physical universe as empty spaces where there is no light, especially between solar systems and planets and whatnot. However, the Void is also a cosmic realm where the Void Lords rule from.

- - - Updated - - -

It is quite literally the Realm of Shadow, the kingdom of that influence. Much like how the Shadowlands is the Realm of Death, the kingdom of that influence.

But again you're wrong on every level. Not any person can make a portal to the void. You have to be able to commune with the void to make a portal to the void, why do you think only Void Elfs can do that? Jesus.

And it's definitely not a realm either, it's a cosmic energy to keep the Light in balance, it can exist anywhere it wants to exist and how it co-habitated with Fel and nearly took Argus and its World Soul for itself, the only thing which could of counter-acted that if it succeeded would of been Light just like Order was the force to imprison Sargeras

[Joshuaj]

But again you're wrong on every level. Not any person can make a portal to the void. You have to be able to commune with the void to make a portal to the void, why do you think only Void Elfs can do that? Jesus.

And it's definitely not a realm either, it's a cosmic energy to keep the Light in balance, it can exist anywhere it wants to exist and how it co-habitated with Fel and nearly took Argus and its World Soul for itself, the only thing which could of counter-acted that if it succeeded would of been Light.

You're confusing the force of Shadow and it's magics with the realm of Shadow. Don't do that.

Also, the Ethereals seemingly communed with Dimensius, which is likely why he made it to K'aresh to begin with. However, beyond that, you also have K'aresh's worldsoul, which is naturally really fucking powerful. Why not use that Worldsoul's power to keep a portal between realms open? And why not use that to your advantage VIA spreading your influence across the Physical Universe, consuming matter, and making that portal bigger and stronger overtime?

Idk, seems to be fool proof to me.

- - - Updated - - -

"how it co-habitated with Fel and nearly took Argus and its World Soul for itself."

Are you saying the Fel nearly took Argus and its worldsoul for itself? Or are you saying the Void did VIA working with the Fel? Cause the first one is sort of correct, albeit it was mostly Sargeras' doing, and he's a being of Order that's simply using the Fel for his own twisted desires.