Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Xilurm]

TWW has very good world building and side quest writing, but the main plot itself is all over the place and has no focus. It feels like a xalatath-powered monster of the week kid show with no main goal besides just reacting to whatever xalatath does next.

Isn't that normal though? We were told to go to Khaz Algar, and on the way Xal'atath attacks. Then most of the people are trying to figure out what this place is while a smaller party chases down Xal'atath.

That is the goal. At first it was Xal using the Nerubians so we take care of that threat and Alleria damages the Dark Heart. Then because Alleria did that, Xal gets help from the Goblins in order to fix it. This sounds more like Xal reacting to what Alleria did instead. Undermine starts out as an expedition of sorts, where we help Gazlowe and Reznik. But then we find out there's black blood involved so Orweyna comes along with us. And then we find out the Ethereals and the Dark Heart are involved so Alleria arrives too.

To me the pacing seems fine. It's not too fast where you wonder how did something happen. And they take their time to explain things, well if you read the quest text and optional dialogue that is.

[Jaggler]

I feel something similar happenned with TWW, which was partially done before shifting to the WSS. The whole earthen coreway, arathi and nerubian plot feels unimportant, rushed and abandoned while trying to focus on Xalatath and her mcguffin. The haranir and their rootlands seems kinda abandoned as well. What do the alliance and horde armies actually do? Why are we still in dornogal?

How would you describe TWW's main plot? It's a mess.

Tbh, most of what is labeled an "abandoned plot" there is just flat out wrong.

The oathstones weren't abandoned, the plot more or less ended when Vyranoth blasted the Mother Oathstone.

I really see how the final room of Aberrus is an abandoned plot. It's a void-y room in the sancotum of a guy who got corrupted by the void.

Tyr had a very close connection to the Dragon Aspects and will almost certainly play a role in TLT.

Iridikron has been set-up as a villain later on. His connection with the Infinite Dragonflight is via the Void and Xal'atath who he hands the Dark heart over.

The Dracthyr stasis has been explained in-game as well.

Vyranoth changing sides happened rather quick, yes, but that doesn't turn it into an abandoned plot.

I feel like the mega-dungeon was supposed to 1: Introduce the Dark Heart and 2: wrap up the infinite storyline because (frankly) timetravel in WoW is a mess.

The only real missing piece here is Vakthros in the Azure Span, but i feel like it's good that some places have some mystery left. Blizz has been overexplaining too much anyways. It could be something to go back to for storylines down the line during the WSS

[Xilurm]

I think they've done a great job world building for the most part in TWW. But the main story feels directionless largely because we are halfway through and we still have no clue what Xal'atath is trying to do. Waiting for the big reveal is almost never worth it.

But then having it get revealed instantly and then wait 4 years for it to get resolved is also not very good. We know Xal'atath will be around for Midnight as well. IMO that would be boring.

And in Undermine we don't even get much about her anyway. This patch would've happened even if she wasn't involved. She wasn't pulling any strings or whatever because Gallywix would've done all of this by himself anyway.

[Limayria]

But then having it get revealed instantly and then wait 4 years for it to get resolved is also not very good. We know Xal'atath will be around for Midnight as well. IMO that would be boring.

And in Undermine we don't even get much about her anyway. This patch would've happened even if she wasn't involved. She wasn't pulling any strings or whatever because Gallywix would've done all of this by himself anyway.

Why would we have gone to undermine at all if pamsy didn't drill through the wall as a cry for help??? They wouldn't have been there drilling for black blood if not for xal

[Nymrohd]

About a month to go before 11.1.7 is announced. Considering how 11.1.5 ended up being rather lacklustre by the looks of things, I can't wait until we learn what comes after.

I genuinely think that the current timeperiod we're in, from now until around May, is probably the worst in terms of WoW news for years to come. Once we hit the 11.1.7 and 11.2 cycle, things will really ramp up and then before we know it, it's time for the grand Midnight reveal at Gamescom. Followed, of course, by Alpha, Beta, Housing, Pre-patch, and launch.

Exciting days ahead! Soon...

personally really enjoying 11.1.5 on the PTR. I love Horrific Visions. Wish we could actually test more of it without grinding it for hours upon hours. . .

The Hallowfall thing makes no sense. It's an easy grind for some decent cosmetics though. It makes me wonder if the spider raid was originally the mid tier raid.

Dastardly duos are also a ton of fun. The ilvl cap on it and the scoring system makes me wonder what this is a test for.

[Nymrohd]

Well duos are interesting because Blizzard has actually added a performance scoring system there. And that makes me wonder what that might be for

[Ersula]

If Xal'atath is Rita Repulsa, who is Lord Zedd?

Irridikron, obviously.

[Lady Atia]

personally really enjoying 11.1.5 on the PTR. I love Horrific Visions. Wish we could actually test more of it without grinding it for hours upon hours. . .

The Hallowfall thing makes no sense. It's an easy grind for some decent cosmetics though. It makes me wonder if the spider raid was originally the mid tier raid.

Dastardly duos are also a ton of fun. The ilvl cap on it and the scoring system makes me wonder what this is a test for.

Wait, you can't outgear the duo thing?

Do you have to play it solo or is it actually a MMO feature that you can do with friends? If not, oh boy, I can already see the complains if you can't progress through it with better gear lol.

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TWW has very good world building and side quest writing, but the main plot itself is all over the place and has no focus. It feels like a xalatath-powered monster of the week kid show with no main goal besides just reacting to whatever xalatath does next.

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Azj-Kahet feels completely abandoned both lore and gameplay-wise. Queen ansurek was turned into a simple xalatath pawn and did absolutely nothing besides showing up 1 second in Dalaran, which was destroyed completely by xalatath and she wouldn't have needed the nerubians at all.

The city itself felt like a failed attempt to a Suramar 2.0, where rep npc sell items to help you go thorugh the city and avoid guards... while you can just turbo fly through it. It may have been designed with no flying in mind, and it should have had a longer reputation based questline.

You can even see anubazal dying in a reputation quest while he appears on the raid, it makes no sense and feels rushed.

The zone was defo made with no initial flying in mind because that's how they presented it at the initial announcement - flying was supposed to be the reward for finishing the max level campaign. That was changed between Blizzcon and Alpha launch though, as we could fly with the first build already.

And that rep quest takes place after the raid.

[Nymrohd]

Also here is my second issue with the main story. We did NOT start TWW chasing Xal'atath. We started it searching for information on the Radiant Song. Yet we've spent the expansion chasing Xal'atath while our focus should be the Worldcore.

[Cheezits]

I can see 11.1.7 having some kind of surprise drop of Nerubian content that finishes up their story and also segues into either Rootlands or K'aresh. Either would work as the Nerubians are right next door to the Big Roots and also because of the Ascended's void connection/ethereals already working with the Sureki.

In fact I think that is very likely as we already had something similar with goblin stuff near the road to Undermine and then an Undermine prequel questline. I do hope that if it is the Nerubian finale it's something bigger.

Maybe there will be a twist where the Nerubians are a big part of the Rootlands? Unsure how they would tie in but it could be like how the Covenants followed us into Zereth Mortis to help.

[Nymrohd]

It is not like the Weaver detained all Ascended. Or their Queen who is a void experiment. Having a scenario where Xal'atath goes "When did you think I was no longer using the nerubians" by taking full control of the Ascended and turning Azj'kahet into void hell leading into the Rootlands with a literal tide of Black Blood breaking the walls to the zone would be cool.
Then the survivors can follow us into Azjol'Nerub in TLT.

But yeah, K'aresh

[Alanar]

As far as TWW's plot goes, it's one of the most well paced and detail packed stories of the entire game imo.

I really dont think this is correct at all. Its a mess.

[Khaza-R]

Can Xal still mind control the ascended Nerubians at whim? Maybe there's some future plot where we find a way to break that connection and they join us against her

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I really dont think this is correct at all. Its a mess.

What about it is a mess? I think some people have issues with the pacing because its very possible that Xal's story was originally meant to be contained to TWW only and how is being stretched over an entire saga. That's about the only issue with it I can't really see.

[allegrian]

Also here is my second issue with the main story. We did NOT start TWW chasing Xal'atath. We started it searching for information on the Radiant Song. Yet we've spent the expansion chasing Xal'atath while our focus should be the Worldcore.

Correct, and the Earthen were focusing on fixing the coreway to get to the world soul. If blizzard does not end that plot thread by TLT, it will be an abandoned plot, due to the story team pivoting from whatever Danuser had planned for TWW once Metzen stepped in mid-development.

[Cheezits]

I mean it's clear TWW is full of plots that will now not be resolved for a while (Coreway, Siren Isle mysteries, Rootlands if it's not the finale, Arathi empire, Beledar) due to story shifts and the trilogy model they spoke about upfront.

I can see people being annoyed about this but I do think they are moving towards one-patch stories. Launch TWW had the earthen rebellion and us actually beating Xal which is pretty crazy for a launch storyline, then Undermine is almost completely self-contained.

[allegrian]

Can Xal still mind control the ascended Nerubians at whim? Maybe there's some future plot where we find a way to break that connection and they join us against her

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What about it is a mess? I think some people have issues with the pacing because its very possible that Xal's story was originally meant to be contained to TWW only and how is being stretched over an entire saga. That's about the only issue with it I can't really see.

Because there's no focus in the story. The world building, side stories and some character moments are very good, but the main plot makes no sense and there is no sense of direction like Mop, Wod or Legion had. It feels more like BFA, which focused on kul tiras/zandalar world building on the base game while the "main" plot went all over the place from patch to patch between faction war, azerite, azshara and nzoth.

I'd say TWW feels even worse than BFA in that sense, as we go there for the world soul, which is ignored to focus on xalatath and nerubians, and then focusing on the dark heart and dark blood for some reason while there's really nothing more to do lorewise in the isle of dorn.

The fact that the last patch and final boss of the expansion is not yet clear shows how unfocused this expansion is.

[Cheezits]

Correct, and the Earthen were focusing on fixing the coreway to get to the world soul. If blizzard does not end that plot thread by TLT, it will be an abandoned plot, due to the story team pivoting from whatever Danuser had planned for TWW once Metzen stepped in mid-development.

The pivot will definitely be less Arathi/Avaloren/Beledar versus less Titanshit, as "Titans not great" was a big plot of Danuserflight.

The jury is out on if Nerubians were ditched.

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Because there's no focus in the story. The world building, side stories and some character moments are very good, but the main plot makes no sense and there is no sense of direction like Mop, Wod or Legion had. It feels more like BFA, which focused on kul tiras/zandalar world building on the base game while the "main" plot went all over the place from patch to patch between faction war, azerite, azshara and nzoth.

I don't think the self contained island stories were bad in BFA, but them ditching the Kul Tirans and Zandalari for racial leaders after the Battle for Zandalar was ridiculous.

[allegrian]

I mean it's clear TWW is full of plots that will now not be resolved for a while (Coreway, Siren Isle mysteries, Rootlands if it's not the finale, Arathi empire, Beledar) due to story shifts and the trilogy model they spoke about upfront.

I can see people being annoyed about this but I do think they are moving towards one-patch stories. Launch TWW had the earthen rebellion and us actually beating Xal which is pretty crazy for a launch storyline, then Undermine is almost completely self-contained.

I don't trust blizzard to "finish" the siren isle mysteries. It felt more like a side writing project from one writer to give some lore to the repurposed BFA island zone, so that blizzard can sell it as a minor content patch. They just reskinned the BFA azerite to be more like TWW beledar. The siren isle lore will be completely ignored from now on, and I fear the Coreway and haranir stuff will be as well after some quick TWW epilogue quests.

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The pivot will definitely be less Arathi/Avaloren/Beledar versus less Titanshit, as "Titans not great" was a big plot of Danuserflight.

The jury is out on if Nerubians were ditched.

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I don't think the self contained island stories were bad in BFA, but them ditching the Kul Tirans and Zandalari for racial leaders after the Battle for Zandalar was ridiculous.

DF was set up from the start to be about the titans and their wrongdoings. Tyr was probably going to be either the end boss or our ally vs iridikron, to then become a villain in the next expansion where he would've had a role in TWW.

Xalatath was probably repurposed by Metzen once he thought of the WSS and changed all the nerubian stuff to make them just her pawns.

[Cheezits]

DF was set up from the start to be about the titans and their wrongdoings. Tyr was probably going to be either the end boss or our ally vs iridikron, to then become a villain in the next expansion where he would've had a role in TWW.

I do agree with this. There were a lot of things in the background pointing towards Tyr secretly being shady and cruel, with the upcoming twist being their "reboot" of him would lead to him becoming his original self devoid of any empathy for the dragons. This lines up with how much the aspects dickride him during launch- it would've been a twist for him to come back as an asshole.

I think what they decided to do instead was to pivot the "Bad Keeper" to Odyn who makes more logical sense in this role regardless of Legion. This would be part of why the slapdashed "Vyranoth and Wrathion vs Odyn" thing was created so late in the game. However, the lore book in DF prepatch Uldaman does point towards Odyn being the bad guy originally through the lorebook showing he is an egoist censoring history, so it's still possible he was the end antagonist.

Regardless I now expect a Tyr vs Odyn civil war of sorts in TLT with Tyr PROBABLY being an ally of the dragons vs Odyn who historically doesn't like them or Tyr and would side with the Titans vs dragons/mortals immediately. Also they both are The Vrykul Guys and the Vrykul will probably be the face of the expansion + main antagonists of launch.

[Enrif]

I think with the TWW pacing we have to also not forget we lost a whole .5 patch for the anniversary event, which didn't pushed the story forward.