Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

You can't.

They're too busy speculating how a pet from Lunar New Year, year of the snake which is the same as a Dragon in their culture (Completely different thing in the Western world) , or a mix of both, known as a Teng, is related to Ethereals

wow, that is so missing the mark. The lunar new year mount pet already is available in the game and is an actual snake (year of the wood snake)


So, last year we had this as a dragon (year of the wood dragon)


and next year is the year of the fire horse. (for the 5 years after that, in order: fire sheep, earth monkey, earth rooster, metal dog, metal pig...)

This crocodile dragon with gold and light has nothing that relates it to the chinese zodiac

[Hitei]

The Garrison let you do that, why not Housing?

The garrison didn't let you free place and manipulate items. You couldn't use the garrison system to make weird sex dungeons or whatever other degenerate shit people put time into doing with the housing system.

[Nymrohd]

The garrison didn't let you free place and manipulate items. You couldn't use the garrison system to make weird sex dungeons or whatever other degenerate shit people put time into doing with the housing system.

Cool. How exactly would you have weird sex dungeons with placeable NPCs if you cannot undress them and can at most let them stand in one place or set up an idle wandering routine?

[Cheezits]

Any house can constitute as a "weird sex dungeon" and people are going to use the robust item placement to make penises and what not. Who cares? Housing is way too unpoliceable.

[Enrif]

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1905303848865931603

New Trading Post rewards.

hmm, not impressed so far. Might be a skip month for me, unless they have same nice simple stuff to get

Edit:

https://www.wowhead.com/news/april-2...ask-set-376127

at least the completion reward is kinda cool

[Melorandor]

The War Within is actually a decent expansion. Just finished the Undermined story, actually somewhat optimistic for 11.2 and Midnight.

[Tiradon]

The War Within is actually a decent expansion. Just finished the Undermined story, actually somewhat optimistic for 11.2 and Midnight.

Yeah just hope they get the next patch here earlier

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Narratively speaking, the quality did not dip from Base Expansion to 11.1.

They're just struggling real hard with keeping peoples' engagement and interest from Base Expansion to 11.1, at least we finish on a high note with K'aresh even if I would've preferred this expansion having a more constructed narrative settled on the Underground setting and delivering a showdown at the World Soul.

The writing quality is at least at a higher level than previously, its just again they're really bad at making narrative products on a whole scale rather than a small scale centered on each consecutive updates.

If we could get just a bit more planned and constructed narratives that aren't reliant on a McGuffin being frisbee'd throughout the Universe with our villain characters continuing to have Zovaals' issue of no characterization I think we're onto a winner at some point.

Ultimately, the game is of such high quality even with the Quality Control concerns being stomped out because its not "convenient" that I fail to really see any feedback being taken that will change the game for the better anytime soon in the narrative department.

Inb4 its still a World Soul finale raid, but considering the writing out of Orweynas' existence from the story it doesn't seem likely anymore as she's basically become a Dante Alighieri to the events of the Underground just waltzing about.

[Khaza-R]

One thing with the narrative I think they improved a lot was not oversharing.

The Azir twist was fantastic. I feel if they tried to tell the same story in BfA or SLs, they would of tried to build it up and then it just would of fell flat. This was a plot twist that was actually allowed to be surprising. Hopefully good omens for Midnight.

[Cheezits]

If K'aresh or a dome of it is 11.2 you have to wonder what the last area of Midnight will be. I guess Nathreza is back on the table.

- - - Updated - - -

The Azir twist was fantastic. I feel if they tried to tell the same story in BfA or SLs, they would of tried to build it up and then it just would of fell flat. This was a plot twist that was actually allowed to be surprising. Hopefully good omens for Midnight.

Crazy what happens when characters (Alleria, Gallywix) are allowed to be WRONG about the plot and aren't just robots spitting out objective exposition. They can make mistakes.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

One thing with the narrative I think they improved a lot was not oversharing.

The Azir twist was fantastic. I feel if they tried to tell the same story in BfA or SLs, they would of tried to build it up and then it just would of fell flat. This was a plot twist that was actually allowed to be surprising. Hopefully good omens for Midnight.

I ultimately think in a vacuum these decisions are pretty good decisions, I also in a vacuum think this was the only way they could tie-in Undermine(d) to the larger A Plotline. Azir's inclusion is not really a problem even if it edges on borderline making Xal'atath look excessively pathetic and stupid to a degree that would totally fly in a environment where BFA, Shadowlands and Dragonflight didn't occur where we can at least have some confidence that Xal'ataths character being turned into a dum dum actually has some sort of narrative payoff where she actually does achieve something.

Its just unfortunately the game is World of Warcraft after BFA, Shadowlands and it makes these decisions more questionable because if they're not done with this intent in mind but rather a handwaving of giving a fuck about the narrative then I can't deny these decisions very much worry me for Midnight which essentially requires a serious Narrative Team that takes the product they're delivering seriously rather than just handwave it again because they automatically win when Midnight launches, regardless.

Its the refusal of using their characters because they have to budget everything to the cent that makes a lot of this fall apart and while I think this would work if they just provided a bit more characterization they ultimately again rely on a lot of people immediately coming to defense that a lack of context is good which it could be if World of Warcraft was made in a vacuum rather than failure after failure from the Narrative Team with Xal'atath again doing her best Zovaal impression and having been turned into a goof at this point.

At least everything else except the A Plot storyline is exceptionally good quality, though.

I firmly blame Steve Danuser and the mid-production nature of The War Within, but ultimately it might go kapoof in my face when Midnight continues to be a trainwreck in the A Plot department. But for me, Midnight is the final expansion where the excuse of "This expansion doesn't count" ends for me.

[Enrif]

If K'aresh or a dome of it is 11.2 you have to wonder what the last area of Midnight will be. I guess Nathreza is back on the table.

we have to wait and see if we actually go to K'aresh in 11.2, or if the ethereals come to us. That is still on the table. Also, the end of Midnight could be something totally different than what we might expect. It could be Titan or Light related instead of finish with the Void. Like, 12.1. is the finally of Xal'atath, but 12.2. is Titan or Light problem, that leads into TLT, like now 11.2 might lead into Midnight

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean if Xal'atath ever succeeds at anything, that'd be cool because at least then we get a environment where the narrative isn't so set in stone and we can have fluid characters that can both fail or succeed with it not being so static like its' been in the past and it creates a lot more narrative impetus in different directions that can be more exciting for the audience.

[Limayria]

we have to wait and see if we actually go to K'aresh in 11.2, or if the ethereals come to us. That is still on the table. Also, the end of Midnight could be something totally different than what we might expect. It could be Titan or Light related instead of finish with the Void. Like, 12.1. is the finally of Xal'atath, but 12.2. is Titan or Light problem, that leads into TLT, like now 11.2 might lead into Midnight

Midnight is definitely ending on azeorth with the titans coming to us, I'm personally a big believer that the light is going to start infecting the world soul somehow and trigger an emergency alarm for the titans to return

I do think that we've already seen the narrative taking itself much more seriously, and undermine was super well written and had me tearing up personally, even orwyenna who most people said amounted to nothing had some good characterization moments in the 11.1 MSQ, like in the final quest where she takes Nikki's body to return it to the earth and so the mob can't desecrate it is a good glimpse into her psyche

I do think they have a lot of prior baggage preventing them from really making the story a remarkable story telling in video games moment but if they hold course they could probably reach "game people play for the story"

But like I genuinely believe if they had let turyalon die to save Alleria in legion and that was what caused the schism between her and Arator it would have added a lot of weight to her worsening mental state, it also would have provided a moment of characterization for xalatath, showing xalatath being genuinely compassionate to the grief stricken Alleria in a bid to seduce her to the void. Which could have snow balled into having Arator show up in turyalons place in the 11.0 max level MSQ finale, which would have had way more weight to the "trust me I need to go do this" and could have given us more insight into both characters in stay awhile dialogue after the quest, with Arator and Alleria having their first conversation in a very long time together, hell we could have had an option to tell Arator about the SW vision if our characters had done that and about how even in the worst case scenario shown to us by old gods manipulating us his mom was still working out of love for him

[Nymrohd]

Midnight is definitely ending on azeorth with the titans coming to us, I'm personally a big believer that the light is going to start infecting the world soul somehow and trigger an emergency alarm for the titans to return

I do think that we've already seen the narrative taking itself much more seriously, and undermine was super well written and had me tearing up personally, even orwyenna who most people said amounted to nothing had some good characterization moments in the 11.1 MSQ, like in the final quest where she takes Nikki's body to return it to the earth and so the mob can't desecrate it is a good glimpse into her psyche

I do think they have a lot of prior baggage preventing them from really making the story a remarkable story telling in video games moment but if they hold course they could probably reach "game people play for the story"

But like I genuinely believe if they had let turyalon die to save Alleria in legion and that was what caused the schism between her and Arator it would have added a lot of weight to her worsening mental state, it also would have provided a moment of characterization for xalatath, showing xalatath being genuinely compassionate to the grief stricken Alleria in a bid to seduce her to the void. Which could have snow balled into having Arator show up in turyalons place in the 11.0 max level MSQ finale, which would have had way more weight to the "trust me I need to go do this" and could have given us more insight into both characters in stay awhile dialogue after the quest, with Arator and Alleria having their first conversation in a very long time together, hell we could have had an option to tell Arator about the SW vision if our characters had done that and about how even in the worst case scenario shown to us by old gods manipulating us his mom was still working out of love for him

See, that sounds like too much melodrama. The game's story is told so episodically (by necessity) for that to work. We've had them try with Sylvanas and it was awful. Very dramatic storylines need to be contained in a single patch imo.

[Joshuaj]

If K'aresh or a dome of it is 11.2 you have to wonder what the last area of Midnight will be. I guess Nathreza is back on the table.

- - - Updated - - -



Crazy what happens when characters (Alleria, Gallywix) are allowed to be WRONG about the plot and aren't just robots spitting out objective exposition. They can make mistakes.

Why would Nathreza be on the table at all? It's Light Vs Shadow. A patch centered in the Nether would be silly.

- - - Updated - - -

Midnight is definitely ending on azeorth with the titans coming to us, I'm personally a big believer that the light is going to start infecting the world soul somehow and trigger an emergency alarm for the titans to return

I do think that we've already seen the narrative taking itself much more seriously, and undermine was super well written and had me tearing up personally, even orwyenna who most people said amounted to nothing had some good characterization moments in the 11.1 MSQ, like in the final quest where she takes Nikki's body to return it to the earth and so the mob can't desecrate it is a good glimpse into her psyche

I do think they have a lot of prior baggage preventing them from really making the story a remarkable story telling in video games moment but if they hold course they could probably reach "game people play for the story"

But like I genuinely believe if they had let turyalon die to save Alleria in legion and that was what caused the schism between her and Arator it would have added a lot of weight to her worsening mental state, it also would have provided a moment of characterization for xalatath, showing xalatath being genuinely compassionate to the grief stricken Alleria in a bid to seduce her to the void. Which could have snow balled into having Arator show up in turyalons place in the 11.0 max level MSQ finale, which would have had way more weight to the "trust me I need to go do this" and could have given us more insight into both characters in stay awhile dialogue after the quest, with Arator and Alleria having their first conversation in a very long time together, hell we could have had an option to tell Arator about the SW vision if our characters had done that and about how even in the worst case scenario shown to us by old gods manipulating us his mom was still working out of love for him

Midnight's not gonna end in the Titans. It's gonna end in Light Vs Shadow.

- - - Updated - - -

we have to wait and see if we actually go to K'aresh in 11.2, or if the ethereals come to us. That is still on the table. Also, the end of Midnight could be something totally different than what we might expect. It could be Titan or Light related instead of finish with the Void. Like, 12.1. is the finally of Xal'atath, but 12.2. is Titan or Light problem, that leads into TLT, like now 11.2 might lead into Midnight

It doesn't have to be Titan or Light based at all. Based off the implications of TWW, Midnight will likely end in Renilash.

[Cheezits]

Why would Nathreza be on the table at all? It's Light Vs Shadow. A patch centered in the Nether would be silly.

The Nathrezim are masters of shadow magic and are the ones that turned Sargeras crazy with their antics. Said Titan will be appearing shortly after, and they have room to be relevant in both Midnight and TLT due to the Scourge. I don't think it's that wild of a jump especially if Karesh is being used earlier than expected.

[Joshuaj]

"15. The Arathi, guardians of the Sacred Flame, formed the Aegis shield, a constellation of courage against the encroaching darkness. Their resolve, a beacon in the night, as stars began to fade into shadow.
16. The Harbinger's forces, nightmares of legs and claws, spun from the loom of oblivion, skittered across the battlefield. Their movements, a grotesque dance, echoed the discordant rhythm of a world teetering on the brink.
17. The wall, built with the living rock of titans, bore the weight of the conflict. Each stone, a silent witness to the struggle, whispering tales of valor to the wind, stirring the spirits of warriors long gone."

We're already seeing the beginning parts of Renilash in TWW, with these prophecies likely being fulfilled throughout the expac. So far, I don't think 17's been explored yet.

"18. The remains of gods, scattered across the battlefield, pulsed with an unseen light. Their echoes, a clarion call, stirred the Arathi, compelling them to fight, to kill for the world's dawn.
19. Amidst the chaos, the forgotten one cried, "When the last star fades, the emperor's crown will weigh heavy with the sins of a thousand years." The stalwart soldiers threw down their spears and wept tears of blood and burning anger."

This is likely to occur in Midnight, with the "remnants of gods" likely being the Naaru or something beyond that.

"The last star" may refer to something light based, or even the Worldsoul, as Argus was called "the emerald star" and Azeroth is the last worldsoul.

- - - Updated - - -

The Nathrezim are masters of shadow magic and are the ones that turned Sargeras crazy with their antics. Said Titan will be appearing shortly after, and they have room to be relevant in both Midnight and TLT due to the Scourge. I don't think it's that wild of a jump especially if Karesh is being used earlier than expected.

IF K'aresh happens in 11.2 instead of 12.2 (Which I doubt, but it's fun to speculate), the final patch of Midnight will likely take place in a Light and Void based battleground realm. Would be weird to bring in Nathreza, as that is a destroyed Legion world located in a realm unrelated to Renilash. How would you even connect it to the story outside of "Oh, some of the Dreadlords were with the Void for a bit"?

- - - Updated - - -

Nathreza and Xoroth making official appearances in WoW will likely occur in a Disorder based expac. Whether it be a new Burning Legion being made, or Blizzard actually adding in Disorder Lords (Which I actually doubt, as unless they act as representatives (Which doesn't require a pantheon tbh) or are the originators of the demons that just hate each-others guts or are a new thing created entirely that was made after the Legion's defeat, there's really no need to have this be the case), or whatever tf, that's how those Nether worlds will likely be revealed to us. Outside of that though? Doubtful.

[CasualFilth]

Narratively speaking, the quality did not dip from Base Expansion to 11.1.

They're just struggling real hard with keeping peoples' engagement and interest from Base Expansion to 11.1, at least we finish on a high note with K'aresh even if I would've preferred this expansion having a more constructed narrative settled on the Underground setting and delivering a showdown at the World Soul.

The writing quality is at least at a higher level than previously, its just again they're really bad at making narrative products on a whole scale rather than a small scale centered on each consecutive updates.

If we could get just a bit more planned and constructed narratives that aren't reliant on a McGuffin being frisbee'd throughout the Universe with our villain characters continuing to have Zovaals' issue of no characterization I think we're onto a winner at some point.

Ultimately, the game is of such high quality even with the Quality Control concerns being stomped out because its not "convenient" that I fail to really see any feedback being taken that will change the game for the better anytime soon in the narrative department.

Inb4 its still a World Soul finale raid, but considering the writing out of Orweynas' existence from the story it doesn't seem likely anymore as she's basically become a Dante Alighieri to the events of the Underground just waltzing about.

I mentioned this before and I'm typing it again: WoW writers really need a shake-up on HOW they present the story to us. There's always the feeling that we are going through a 'powerpoint' sort of plot, with 'this happened, then this other thing happened!' bulletpoint structure. I think the problem stems not with them not planning ahead, but ensuring they do not overpromise in case of any arising issues with a patch's/expansion's development. I mean there definitely was a Dragonflight patch/story beat that was cut surrounding Vyranoth and her bizarre change of allegiance.

[Sondrelk]

I mentioned this before and I'm typing it again: WoW writers really need a shake-up on HOW they present the story to us. There's always the feeling that we are going through a 'powerpoint' sort of plot, with 'this happened, then this other thing happened!' bulletpoint structure. I think the problem stems not with them not planning ahead, but ensuring they do not overpromise in case of any arising issues with a patch's/expansion's development. I mean there definitely was a Dragonflight patch/story beat that was cut surrounding Vyranoth and her bizarre change of allegiance.

Hard to fix the issue when it's caused by the patch structure. consuming content is far faster than making it. And even an 8 week wait between patches does lots of waiting between each bit of lore.

Ideally this is where timegating comes into play. But even then. Making 8 weeks worth of story is quite a lot. Even assuming there are no side quests.