Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Eldryth]

Also, the end of Midnight could be something totally different than what we might expect. It could be Titan or Light related instead of finish with the Void. Like, 12.1. is the finally of Xal'atath, but 12.2. is Titan or Light problem, that leads into TLT, like now 11.2 might lead into Midnight

Lately I've been suspecting that Azshara might hijack the Void's plans and become Midnight's true villain (I made a big post about it here, but the short version is, the Naga had a manifesto early in Dragonflight that perfectly planned almost everything that's happened since, even the stuff that ruined Xal'atath's plans- and all that's left in it is Xal'atath completing the awakening and Azshara returning to rule the world).

Plus it's hard to think of a more fitting and personal antagonist for all Elves, when you think about it.

So my guess right now is K'aresh in 11.2 as the recent story has been strongly implying, and Azshara in 12.2. Maybe in Zin'Azshari proper for a take two on Nazjatar, since iirc pretty much everyone was disappointed with BFA just showing ruins on the outskirts.

No idea where Xal'atath's story is going at this point though.

[CasualFilth]

Hard to fix the issue when it's caused by the patch structure. consuming content is far faster than making it. And even an 8 week wait between patches does lots of waiting between each bit of lore.

Ideally this is where timegating comes into play. But even then. Making 8 weeks worth of story is quite a lot. Even assuming there are no side quests.

Agreed, the 8 week patch cycle has kinda been both a blessing and a curse for the game.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

It is plausible that they were honest with the Blizzcon marketing and it starts with K'aresh where we see it start to go live if we take into account the idea this expansion was so mid-production that they had to do all this nonsense with a McGuffin heist. It kind of reminds me of how WoD became a escape hatch for Legion.

Obviously, I still remain skeptical. I feel like a lot of the Blizzcon marketing was solely due to a bruised ego with no actual interest in achieving what they laid out for customers. Especially with the context of the "Heh, we removed a major patch" and act like they didn't do that while marketing Narrative aspirations when they have less room to put their Narrative.

(Hell, even I know that at this point this is the plan -6 months for a earlier box sale and so it does leave me wary that they just bulldoze through Midnight without a care. Either way, take the good with the bad. Best approach at this point.)

I'm still very much looking forward to see this final major patch for this expansion though, I thought Undermine(d) had an exceptional campaign and I loved the base expansion up until they decided with the McGuffin shenanigans.

[Joshuaj]

I like your creativity here.

But it could just as well be that Beledar is "the last star," sort of representing the last of its kind. If it should turn completely to darkness (permanently), then the "forgotten one," e.g. the Old God of Khaz Algar maybe, returns to power. (Hidden in the Undersea maybe, or entrapped within the Beledar.)

I was thinking that, but it comes after the whole "remains of fallen gods" stuff, and I'm not sure we'll be seeing Beledar in Midnight,

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Lately I've been suspecting that Azshara might hijack the Void's plans and become Midnight's true villain (I made a big post about it here, but the short version is, the Naga had a manifesto early in Dragonflight that perfectly planned almost everything that's happened since, even the stuff that ruined Xal'atath's plans- and all that's left in it is Xal'atath completing the awakening and Azshara returning to rule the world).

Plus it's hard to think of a more fitting and personal antagonist for all Elves, when you think about it.

So my guess right now is K'aresh in 11.2 as the recent story has been strongly implying, and Azshara in 12.2. Maybe in Zin'Azshari proper for a take two on Nazjatar, since iirc pretty much everyone was disappointed with BFA just showing ruins on the outskirts.

No idea where Xal'atath's story is going at this point though.

I prefer the idea of Dimensius being the main antagonist of Midnight or summ (Fightable or not), falls in line with my whole "Warcraft Dark Trinity" thing, with Sargeras, Zovaal, and Dimensius.

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Warcraft's 3 Dark Lords that were behind all the bad shit in the Warcraft universe. The Dark Trinity!

[Tiradon]

Agreed, the 8 week patch cycle has kinda been both a blessing and a curse for the game.

Maybe m+ should have different dung pools being released as in 4 dungeons first and then the rest later.

Can’t really do that with a 8 boss raid though.

I don’t know, it’s just strange. Maybe seasons need to be shorter tbh

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"15. The Arathi, guardians of the Sacred Flame, formed the Aegis shield, a constellation of courage against the encroaching darkness. Their resolve, a beacon in the night, as stars began to fade into shadow.
16. The Harbinger's forces, nightmares of legs and claws, spun from the loom of oblivion, skittered across the battlefield. Their movements, a grotesque dance, echoed the discordant rhythm of a world teetering on the brink.
17. The wall, built with the living rock of titans, bore the weight of the conflict. Each stone, a silent witness to the struggle, whispering tales of valor to the wind, stirring the spirits of warriors long gone."

We're already seeing the beginning parts of Renilash in TWW, with these prophecies likely being fulfilled throughout the expac. So far, I don't think 17's been explored yet.

"18. The remains of gods, scattered across the battlefield, pulsed with an unseen light. Their echoes, a clarion call, stirred the Arathi, compelling them to fight, to kill for the world's dawn.
19. Amidst the chaos, the forgotten one cried, "When the last star fades, the emperor's crown will weigh heavy with the sins of a thousand years." The stalwart soldiers threw down their spears and wept tears of blood and burning anger."

This is likely to occur in Midnight, with the "remnants of gods" likely being the Naaru or something beyond that.

"The last star" may refer to something light based, or even the Worldsoul, as Argus was called "the emerald star" and Azeroth is the last worldsoul.

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IF K'aresh happens in 11.2 instead of 12.2 (Which I doubt, but it's fun to speculate), the final patch of Midnight will likely take place in a Light and Void based battleground realm. Would be weird to bring in Nathreza, as that is a destroyed Legion world located in a realm unrelated to Renilash. How would you even connect it to the story outside of "Oh, some of the Dreadlords were with the Void for a bit"?

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Nathreza and Xoroth making official appearances in WoW will likely occur in a Disorder based expac. Whether it be a new Burning Legion being made, or Blizzard actually adding in Disorder Lords (Which I actually doubt, as unless they act as representatives (Which doesn't require a pantheon tbh) or are the originators of the demons that just hate each-others guts or are a new thing created entirely that was made after the Legion's defeat, there's really no need to have this be the case), or whatever tf, that's how those Nether worlds will likely be revealed to us. Outside of that though? Doubtful.

Am I crazy or the 17# sounds like Siren’s Isle?

[Joshuaj]

Maybe m+ should have different dung pools being released as in 4 dungeons first and then the rest later.

Can’t really do that with a 8 boss raid though.

I don’t know, it’s just strange. Maybe seasons need to be shorter tbh

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Am I crazy or the 17# sounds like Siren’s Isle?

Does it have a massive wall or summ?

[Tiradon]

Does it have a massive wall or summ?

Not really, but it did have a wall of “myst” surrounding it.

I’m very curious about the next patch and the follow up to Midnight, let’s see where they are going… the post credits in 11.1 was a nice touch I gotta say

[Joshuaj]

Not really, but it did have a wall of “myst” surrounding it.

I’m very curious about the next patch and the follow up to Midnight, let’s see where they are going… the post credits in 11.1 was a nice touch I gotta say

So you think it's a metaphorical wall, rather than a physical one?

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I think this "wall" is whatever is protecting the worldcore.

[allegrian]

I ultimately think in a vacuum these decisions are pretty good decisions, I also in a vacuum think this was the only way they could tie-in Undermine(d) to the larger A Plotline. Azir's inclusion is not really a problem even if it edges on borderline making Xal'atath look excessively pathetic and stupid to a degree that would totally fly in a environment where BFA, Shadowlands and Dragonflight didn't occur where we can at least have some confidence that Xal'ataths character being turned into a dum dum actually has some sort of narrative payoff where she actually does achieve something.

Its just unfortunately the game is World of Warcraft after BFA, Shadowlands and it makes these decisions more questionable because if they're not done with this intent in mind but rather a handwaving of giving a fuck about the narrative then I can't deny these decisions very much worry me for Midnight which essentially requires a serious Narrative Team that takes the product they're delivering seriously rather than just handwave it again because they automatically win when Midnight launches, regardless.

Its the refusal of using their characters because they have to budget everything to the cent that makes a lot of this fall apart and while I think this would work if they just provided a bit more characterization they ultimately again rely on a lot of people immediately coming to defense that a lack of context is good which it could be if World of Warcraft was made in a vacuum rather than failure after failure from the Narrative Team with Xal'atath again doing her best Zovaal impression and having been turned into a goof at this point.

At least everything else except the A Plot storyline is exceptionally good quality, though.

I firmly blame Steve Danuser and the mid-production nature of The War Within, but ultimately it might go kapoof in my face when Midnight continues to be a trainwreck in the A Plot department. But for me, Midnight is the final expansion where the excuse of "This expansion doesn't count" ends for me.

I feel the same. I've been tired since BFA about the "changing narrative direction mid expansion" with all the pivots. BFA pivoted out of the faction war, then shadowlands got shortened 1 patch and tried to redeem Sylvannas, DF just forgot about it's original plot about tyr and the oathstones, Malfurion planned true death + Ysera returning as aspect, and Wrathion becoming aspect as well.

And now we see TWW where its story basically ends on 11.0 where it "undermines" the main plot by having everyone be Xalatath's pawn to hype her up for midnight. We'll probably not see the Coreway finished or rootlands/orwenya stuff, and they'll forget about arathi and the beledar for at least the remainder of the saga.

They promised us to finally have a cohesive story with The World Soul Saga, but it was really just an excuse to make us play through the cancelled TWW story while looking forward to the really hype upcoming expansions (Silvermoon remake, Northrend/Ulduar remake...)

The only hope is that Midnight and TLT deliver the true promise of the saga.

[Viridiel]

Am I crazy or the 17# sounds like Siren’s Isle?

Oh, I hadn't considered that it might actually refer to a "wall" created by the various Beledar-like crystals around the world, including Hymosul/Lorandel. It is described as a constellation, and the crystals are called stars. I do think that the crystals are what kept the Old Gods confined to Kalimdor and may have even prevented the Old Gods from reaching the world soul, so it actually makes a lot of sense.

The only iffy part is that the wall is made of the "living rock of titans". We know that that wouldn't be too far off for the crystals since we've been told they're made of calcified world soul essence and world souls are destined to become titans (again, so we're told), but I don't think there's a reason for the Arathi to know that or to perpetuate that idea. Maybe the other side of Azeroth has Azerite giants or something else that would make them associate world soul essence with titans.

[Joshuaj]

Oh, I hadn't considered that it might actually refer to a "wall" created by the various Beledar-like crystals around the world, including Hymosul/Lorandel. It is described as a constellation, and the crystals are called stars. I do think that the crystals are what kept the Old Gods confined to Kalimdor and may have even prevented the Old Gods from reaching the world soul, so it actually makes a lot of sense.

The only iffy part is that the wall is made of the "living rock of titans". We know that that wouldn't be too far off for the crystals since we've been told they're made of calcified world soul essence and world souls are destined to become titans (again, so we're told), but I don't think there's a reason for the Arathi to know that or to perpetuate that idea. Maybe the other side of Azeroth has Azerite giants or something else that would make them associate world soul essence with titans.

That's probably based off what mortals know regarding the Worldsouls. Wouldn't be shocked if the Arathi Empire were still of the mindset that Worldsouls are baby titans.

[milkmustache]

That's probably based off what mortals know regarding the Worldsouls. Wouldn't be shocked if the Arathi Empire were still of the mindset that Worldsouls are baby titans.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but do we have any indication that the Arathi are familiar with the Titans?

[Foolicious]

So you think it's a metaphorical wall, rather than a physical one?

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I think this "wall" is whatever is protecting the worldcore.

Sounds like the earthen to me. Not sure if it talks about the "rebels" that are most likely still around the worldcore or the khaz algar ones that will join us to defend the world soul though. But pretty sure the wall of living stone are the earthen.

[Joshuaj]

I don't know if this has been discussed, but do we have any indication that the Arathi are familiar with the Titans?

Nothing to imply otherwise.

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Sounds like the earthen to me. Not sure if it talks about the "rebels" that are most likely still around the worldcore or the khaz algar ones that will join us to defend the world soul though. But pretty sure the wall of living stone are the earthen.

It's a wall built with the living rock of Titans. The wall might just be the Worldcore itself, as it's made to protect the Worldsoul. I imagine the First Ones told the Titans to protect Azeroth somehow, and this was the Titans way of "safeguarding" her.

[Viridiel]

That's probably based off what mortals know regarding the Worldsouls. Wouldn't be shocked if the Arathi Empire were still of the mindset that Worldsouls are baby titans.

I'm just not sure why they would think that to begin with since there's never been any indication in-game that anybody knows much of anything about world souls (or titans, for that matter--even the titan-forged know next to nothing about their history), let alone the specific viewpoint in Chronicle. But it's always bothered me that Chronicle is painted as titan-forged propaganda despite propagandising the Light more than anything else, so I guess it could make sense for the Arathi to be the source of the propaganda. Palawltar's codex is the only in-game description of the Chronicle cosmological diagram.

[Enrif]

It doesn't have to be Titan or Light based at all. Based off the implications of TWW, Midnight will likely end in Renilash.

and we don't know what Renilash is. It could be the 12.1 patch, or the 12.2. It could also be neihter and the whole of Midnight is considered Renilash.

[huth]

and we don't know what Renilash is. It could be the 12.1 patch, or the 12.2. It could also be neihter and the whole of Midnight is considered Renilash.

Seems to me it's just a general "Light vs. Void" clash that isn't overly specific on the details.

[Joshuaj]

I'm just not sure why they would think that to begin with since there's never been any indication in-game that anybody knows much of anything about world souls (or titans, for that matter--even the titan-forged know next to nothing about their history), let alone the specific viewpoint in Chronicle. But it's always bothered me that Chronicle is painted as titan-forged propaganda despite propagandising the Light more than anything else, so I guess it could make sense for the Arathi to be the source of the propaganda. Palawltar's codex is the only in-game description of the Chronicle cosmological diagram.

You're right in that it would be hard for them to get that information. But reminder they likely have studied this stuff through relics, visions, as well as other things. So, idk.

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and we don't know what Renilash is. It could be the 12.1 patch, or the 12.2. It could also be neihter and the whole of Midnight is considered Renilash.

I think it's meant to be all of Midnight, with the final battle itself taking place in the last major patch.

Reminder, Renilash technically begins in TWW.

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"It was vast and empty and swallowed all light that entered it. Velen knew it would be all consuming until, at last, it would turn and devour itself, endlessly gnawing on nothing in the Great Dark Beyond, removing all meaning from the universe, from the most heart-breaking sonata to the most arresting sunset. It was too terrible to see, to comprehend, and yet the army headed straight for it. And the light began to fade..."

Lmaooo did Prophets Lesson hint at us potentially facing Dimensius in Midnight?

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Btw, the Worldsoul Saga ending with the influences kinda leaving Azeroth for a bit (Or at least mellowing out) makes the most sense at this rate. Their stories aren't over, but the cosmology is much more clarified, and them leaving/mellowing would give us lots of time to breath.

Disorder- The Legion's been dismantled mostly, and much of the Crusades remnants either work for powerful Diabolist Warlocks or some former Sargeras serving schmucks.

Death- The Jailer's been defeated, and Domination is all but non-existent at this rate. The Shadowlands is saved, and the cycle of Life and Death's been protected. Denathrius and the Dreadlords are at large, but they're no threat atm.

Life- Not much to discuss here. The Dream has been protected, and Azeroth has no threat like the Evergrowth atm.

Order- The Titans will likely be dealt with in a way during TLT.

Light- Their influence on Azeroth will likely fall out a ton in Midnight. At best, Light's influence on Azeroth will be expressed VIA the Arathi Empire.

Shadow- Banished and likely defeated for a while. It's influence on Azeroth will at best be minor after Midnight.

The Elements- Again, kinda settled for now. Decay is at large, and Iridikron exists, but they'll likely be dealt with or at least pushed back in TLT

[Cheezits]

I'm still in favor of Azshara sidestepping Midnight and TLT only to come in full force in 14.0, invading Kalimdor to take back her empire while the Emperor attacks EK.

They could combine forces (Emperor and New Empress), agreeing to split the continents, or they could also be warring against each other.

I think it's way too good of a chance to give each continent a "final boss" that is thematically and historically appropriate to them. Imagine a neutral war campaign for each continent that uses every (revamped) zone to their full potential.

Azshara could call in old favors to enemies scattered around Kalimdor (Naga, elementals, Satyr, Magatha??) while the Arathi resurgence prompts a bunch of rebels across the kingdoms and some criminal shenanigans. Maybe during the chaos the Scarlets and Nathrezim move in and start shitting things up too.

[Nymrohd]

I'm still in favor of Azshara sidestepping Midnight and TLT only to come in full force in 14.0, invading Kalimdor to take back her empire while the Emperor attacks EK.

They could combine forces (Emperor and New Empress), agreeing to split the continents, or they could also be warring against each other.

I think it's way too good of a chance to give each continent a "final boss" that is thematically and historically appropriate to them.

Yeah imo the ideal thing for Azshara would be for her to take advantage of the distraction of the events of the Saga to do something on a cosmic level.