Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Most likely another continent sized environment on the opposite side of Azeroth akin to Eastern Kingdoms/Kalimdor. (Could also just be the usual format though.) Either that or we get a much more refreshed World of Warcraft EK and Kalimdor and its basically Cataclysm 2.0 but this time with Bronze attendants doing their thing.

Ultimately, I think anyone looking for anything "happening" in these next two expansions are going to be wearing a full clown get-up. Nothing ever happens in World of Warcraft. I also feel like we're just threading old ground with the Zovaal/Sylvanas creating Pocket Universe theory.

I think that, if WoW is to kickstart the next 20-30 years, it needs to keep updating and/or revamping the old stuff.

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Pandaria can remain the way it is imo, just perma-fix the Vale and you're good tbh. A Pandaria Revamp can be talked about later for all I care.

But Kalimdor, Outland, and the Eastern Kingdoms? They need revamps, or at least touch up Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms. Outland should be a full revamp, but maybe make it a bit smaller to better showcase the world withering away.

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Also, I hate that Pocket Universe theory crap. Shadowlands happened, let's move on. The Realm of Death is fixed anyway, and the Zereths are likely not gonna be in the story for a good while (which makes sense, as in Universe, we kinda weren't supposed to be at Zereth Mortis, or at least not yet).

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We broke the rules to stop the Devil. Now, we're back to playing by the rules. It'll stay this way for a good while.

[Khaza-R]

I don't see them ever destroying Azeroth outright but I could see Azeroth being freed from the titan's influence, becomes a nexus point for all the cosmic planes

[Joshuaj]

I don't see them ever destroying Azeroth outright but I could see Azeroth being freed from the titan's influence, becomes a nexus point for all the cosmic planes

I can see that too.

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Blizzard should make a new type of Demon! What do I mean? Think about it:

Imagine Felguards, Wrathguards, and Fel Lords Infused with Hellfire! This elite, new type of Demon will be called the Hellspawn! The Hellspawn consist of Hellguards and Hell Lords primarily! One of these Hell Lords would be Hakkar the Houndmaster!

And yes, this is basically my excuse to bring Hakkar back, and with a lore accurate character model. Kinda sucked seeing him rock a generic Fel Lord model in Legion.

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With this speculation in mind, this is my headcanon for what I'd like to see in Xoroth Demon-Wise.

Xoroth: Current domain of the Felguards, Fel Lords, Felhounds, and Dreadsteeds! Also home to the newly formed Hellspawn (Hellsteeds, Hellhounds, Hellguards, and Hell Lords)!

[Darkarath]

I don't see them ever destroying Azeroth outright but I could see Azeroth being freed from the titan's influence, becomes a nexus point for all the cosmic planes

Destroying Azeroth would be the death of the franchise. Everyone loves this world in which we have been more than 20 years.

Another Cataclysm? Sure. Certainly possible in TLT. But we still have, at the very least, two more continents to explore in Azeroth.

My hope is that after the WSS they ditch the cosmic forces and the never ending world ending () threats for a while. Focus instead on more terrenal, "human" problems and conflicts, which are always more interesting.

[Joshuaj]

2 continents? 1 certainly, but whatcha mean 2?

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Also, I agree with them taking a break on the big cosmic stuff, but I'd love to see an all out Demon war on Outland!

[Khaza-R]

Destroying Azeroth would be the death of the franchise. Everyone loves this world in which we have been more than 20 years.

Another Cataclysm? Sure. Certainly possible in TLT. But we still have, at the very least, two more continents to explore in Azeroth.

My hope is that after the WSS they ditch the cosmic forces and the never ending world ending () threats for a while. Focus instead on more terrenal, "human" problems and conflicts, which are always more interesting.

I agree to a certain extent. But stagnation also kills.

I think something like an anti-Cataclysm is more likely. The world not destroyed but restored and unmettled with. Something familiar yet new. Or least that's how I see them setting up for a new age after the WSS.

[Ersula]

Another Cataclysm? Sure. Certainly possible in TLT. But we still have, at the very least, two more continents to explore in Azeroth.

I did think that because the elemental planes, dragon isles, thros & helheim were all effectively removed from azeroth with Titan technology, if anyone disabled that tech we'd be left with an Azeroth with an entirely new geography, without also destroying anything. Seems that would be the best route to another revamp. But I think people are too attached to the continents as they are now.

If Vyranoth wanted to remove Titan influence from the planet it would mean bringing all those places back.

[Joshuaj]

I wonder if the next Housing article is today, or if it's next week or the week after, as the first housing article came on the 5th of February, and the second article came on the 12th of March.

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The last article implied we'd go outside next, so that has me a bit pumped.

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Tho, if the next article is a closer look at interior design outside the basics, I wouldn't be shocked.

[Nymrohd]

I agree to a certain extent. But stagnation also kills.

I think something like an anti-Cataclysm is more likely. The world not destroyed but restored and unmettled with. Something familiar yet new. Or least that's how I see them setting up for a new age after the WSS.

What I want to see is how they can solve making landmass additions that take more than one expac release to explore. If they could solve that then a reverse Sundering when Kalimdor is restored would be so damn cool.

[Darkarath]

I agree to a certain extent. But stagnation also kills.

I think something like an anti-Cataclysm is more likely. The world not destroyed but restored and unmettled with. Something familiar yet new. Or least that's how I see them setting up for a new age after the WSS.

I hope that you are right.

At the very least Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms will be revamped sooner or later. Although I'm pretty sure that the Sword would not be a thing after the WSS, and the mere act of removing it could change Kalimdor's geography forever.

But I think people are too attached to the continents as they are now.

I do not think that this would be a problem. Pretty sure that they would not make Cataclysm's mistake twice. We also have the Classic expansions now, so they will live forever there.

What I want to see is how they can solve making landmass additions that take more than one expac release to explore. If they could solve that then a reverse Sundering when Kalimdor is restored would be so damn cool.

I am so curious about Midnight because of how they would implement the revamped new zones in the old continent. That and the new player experience changes are literally the things that interest me the most about Midnight.

[Joshuaj]

Gotta wait next week or the week after now for Housing news ig. Seems this week was just a video on 11.1.5 for their Twitter.

[Nibelheimy]

I've been toying with some ideas in my head about what's to come after the world soul saga.

I had an idea because I too agree something big has to come out of the announcement after this current Saga.

I could see a possibility that the new saga is a bunch of adventures heading to Avaloren, an entirely new giant continent. Almost as a Wow 2 (but not really)

Everything up to and including TLT could be set up in a new play option on the character select screen like plunderstorm. Existing characters can continue to play in current Wow. You can make new characters in it, but to do current content you'd have to move your character to the new Saga option.

I'm on my phone and my idea my not come through clear.

But I do believe something big is coming.

A new world map. A new giant continent. A new start essentially. But keeping all current wow stuff to what is essentially a legacy server, that you can start and continue in freely, but once you leave into the current main game you can't go back to.

If you want to make a character and chromie time wherever and earn old raid achievements and transmogs/mounts you can.

Anything you earn on that can be used in the current game too. But cannot be earned without going back.

I really do believe they're gunna want to capitalise on a fresh start here, without having to update too much of the old world.

A new map, a new continent, a true new start to wow without any wow 2 loose your cosmetics bullshit would be good. It might actually also entice new players who are put off when they start the game and can see 20 years of content they've missed to catch up on (this does happen).

This could even work with a time skip. Alliance and horde start the new expansion/saga as prisoners together on Avaloren, they meet entirely new cultures, make new friendships and allies and enemies. Current factions may not need to be quite so crucial when you're both the new hostile aliens on the continent.

[Joshuaj]

I can 100% see a saga soley focused on Avaloren, but idk how a lot of old players would feel about that, especially since people are very used to the old world, and people want to see the Old World in an up-to-date fashion.

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That's why I think the next saga should be a balance between old stuff and new stuff, kinda continuing off the Worldsoul Saga's trend.

Return to old content for 2 expacs, and do something entirely new for one of them.

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Like I said, I'd love to see something like this for the next Saga (Not in order):

First Expac: Old World Revamp or Islands Expac with Old World updates.

Second Expac: Avaloren with vast new lands to explore.

Third Expac: Outland Revamp + Us exploring the most notable Demonic Worlds of the Twisting Nether

[Joshuaj]

The point of the Worldsoul Saga is to enable Blizzard to be able to do whatever they want with Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdom, no longer forced to focus on the conventional "gods" like the Titans.

The point of Avaloren is to enable Blizzard to be able to introduce entirely new things, since we're more or less run out of landmasses to explore on this side.

So I am sure they will do a mix of both. Chill, casual content drops in the old world. Gnoll invasion of Elwynn? Mysterious drought in the Barrens? All fair game. Meanwhile they'll also let us push ahead into uncharted territory on the far side of the world.

In fact you could probably argue that a revamp of the old world is probably easier when there aren't a bunch of world-ending threats going on there. They can build something permanent, peaceful, and evergreen.

I mean, the Outland revamp stuff with the Demons would also aid with what you're saying here, as the Demons seemingly don't have a pantheon or anything like that. Also, with Denathrius elsewhere, with the Auchenai seemingly rebuilding in Outland, and with the Demons either making new crusades, joining us, or fighting amongst themselves, there's bound to be a story there eventually.

Also, Blizzard put Kerxan on the Diabolist list of talents alongside a Xoroth talent, a Rancora talent, and a Nathreza talent. Idk man, feels like they plan on doing something with those worlds eventually. I think an expac focused on different warring Demon factions would be sick!

Like, imagine the different Demon factions warring against eachother on Outland, and by the end of the .0 stuff, you go through a Shattrath raid and take down Demons from each faction, all while aiding the Draenei + Illidari in defending the city.

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I do think this type of expac is possible, and I think it'd make much more sense than just adding Disorder Lords and making a saga about that, which was my original headcanon speculation (Which, the more I think about it, the more I dislike it haha).

[Khaza-R]

Its a shame the corruption enchants are looking so lame.

Kind of misses the entire mark of why corruption was fun in the first place.

[Cheezits]

14.0 is definitely a Kalimdor expansion. It will not have been relevant for a long time besides the sword.

[Joshuaj]

14.0 is definitely a Kalimdor expansion. It will not have been relevant for a long time besides the sword.

That's why I'm team "new age"

Finishing off the EK and Kalimdor revamp stuff, bringing in Avaloren, and giving us a full on Demon War expac!

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Wait, I forgot Nihilam!!!

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"But Nihilam would be too much"

Not really! Just have it to where you have a revamped Outland, us returning to Argus, and maybe Rancora for ??.0

??.1 can be Nihilam and Nathreza then, with ??.2 being Krexan and Xoroth or summ like that.

[Nymrohd]

Its a shame the corruption enchants are looking so lame.

Kind of misses the entire mark of why corruption was fun in the first place.

And it is crazy that they are so off the mark with their tuning. So I assume we will see a tuning pass on them before the patch goes live.

[Eldryth]

I think that for the most part, they'll be moving away from crazy cosmic stories for a long while after the current Saga, and instead focus on more grounded stuff on Azeroth. Everything points to us dealing with the established cosmic threats over the next couple expansions (the Void in Midnight, and the Titans in TLT). Maybe Sargeras will be dealt with permanently at the climax too, or maybe he'll escape to try something new. And given that the biggest lessons learned from Shadowlands should be that players hated having a shallow villain created on the spot with nothing going for him but pure power, and that they hated being thrown into a new world they don't care about with no real connection to Azeroth (they even cited that part), I don't think they'd introduce more threats like that without a very long buildup.

(Incidentally, lately I'm thinking that they won't make Dimensius too important because of that- so far he's just a generic planet eater, and if they don't start giving him depth soon, he'll be a pretty boring antagonist. If he isn't heavily fleshed out in 11.2, I'd expect Xal'atath to be the final Void boss or for Azshara to take over).


So, with that in mind, there's really two routes I can see them taking- the other side of Azeroth, and world revamps. With all the Arathi setup, I'm confident that we'll eventually see an expansion centered around their homeland. And I'm also starting to think that, whether or not it and Avaloren are one and the same, it'll be far from the only new continent to explore there. Opening up the rest of the world gives them an opportunity to greatly expand the world, and create hooks for countless expansions, without leaving the setting that players care about. When we go to the Arathi Empire, I think we'll start hearing more about the other lands there (and the Saga might even end with a big tease for that, with storms that kept us cut off from the world disappearing once the Titans are stopped).

I could also see them using factions like the Arathi to bring back the classic war themes without yet another forced conflict that requires turning classic faction heroes into villains. Instead of Alliance vs. Horde, it'll be Alliance and Horde against the Empire, or another new faction.


For a world revamp... Azshara seems like the most obvious antagonist if it focuses on Kalimdor. If she survives the Saga, that is. Other than that, it's hard to guess how things will go, though I still like the idea of the Arathi coming to EK first while we're rebuilding, and a war with them starting in the following patches before we strike back in the next expansion.

[Joshuaj]

Ngl, I do think they need to touch on the Demons, Outland, and Denathrius again. An expansion on that would be fine.

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There are mentions of other worlds conquered or used by the Legion, such as Tarratus, but they're either not fully relevant, they're just references, or imo they would be cool as future 1 off locations. That's why I didn't use them for my speculation. Heck, I felt like not including Nihilam as a zone initially, but it feels too important to ignore.