Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Limayria]

I wish they would buff the darkfuse rep too

[Hitei]

They can suck it up. Sometimes races other than humans and night elves should get content.

I mean, sure, that's a good argument for why like... Worgen or Pandaren should get content. It's not much of an argument for why Blood Elves deserve it.

[Wyrt]

I mean, sure, that's a good argument for why like... Worgen or Pandaren should get content. It's not much of an argument for why Blood Elves deserve it.

Why do worgen deserve content but not blood elves?

[Scyth]

I find it weird how against blood elf content people are considering the last major blood elf content was for 1 patch in MoP and most of their racial assets and city are still stuck in BC era.

I think for a lot of people there isn't really a difference between a nelf and a belf, so they get frustrated if we get some belf content after years of nelf one. Just my assumption, that is.

I doubt Midnight will be all about Elves from start to finish though. Blizzard is smart enough to realise that, although Belves are massively popular, there is still a large population of people who would get fatigued from such content and complain. So fully expect to get some Troll or Forsaken stories too!

[Limayria]

Why do worgen deserve content but not blood elves?

Well you see blood elves existed in one patch in mop, and a handful of zones in TBC!! That's more than enough content

Never mind the fact pandarian have a similar level of content and worgen aren't far behind (starter zone + major roll in legion alliance stormhelm + retaking gilneas quest)

And blood (and void) elves also make up almost 30% of the player base so it's a little fair they get some spot light from time to time I think

Considering orcs have 10x the content and like a third of the player base

Or trolls who also have 10x the content and even less players


Not that development should be super beholden to player metrics but it does feel bad that blood elves are basically non existent in the plot but so extremely common in game play

[Wyrt]

I think for a lot of people there isn't really a difference between a nelf and a belf, so they get frustrated if we get some belf content after years of nelf one. Just my assumption, that is.

I doubt Midnight will be all about Elves from start to finish though. Blizzard is smart enough to realise that, although Belves are massively popular, there is still a large population of people who would get fatigued from such content and complain. So fully expect to get some Troll or Forsaken stories too!

If they're going to consider night elves and blood elves to be the same they might as well throw trolls into that grouping too. So any Amani story should also piss them off.

[Dvalin]

I wonder how relevant this is too TLT aswell. They've basically have enough time to revamp the entirety of Northrend, but I wonder they're going to stick to just Storm Peaks. There would have to be some drastic changes to the land of course.

Seeing how Northrend is basically around the size of the Dragon Isles, I think we'll get the whole of Northrend. But updated, and reflecting the return of the Titans (maybe some terraforming/new structures here and there). With smaller zones from old-Northrend getting merged into new zones/becoming sub-zones. I don't think it will just be a HD version of Northrend, as I expect some new twists and ideas.

Merely speculation, of course. Though the 4-zone philosophy will probably persist.

[Dracullus]

Seeing how Northrend is basically around the size of the Dragon Isles, I think we'll get the whole of Northrend. But updated, and reflecting the return of the Titans (maybe some terraforming/new structures here and there). With smaller zones from old-Northrend getting merged into new zones/becoming sub-zones. I don't think it will just be a HD version of Northrend, as I expect some new twists and ideas.

Merely speculation, of course. Though the 4-zone philosophy will probably persist.

Khaz Algar is smaller than Dragon Isles, so I could see some zones introduced in patches. If I had to bet, I would pick:

- almost whole Northrend as launch zones
- capital: Iridikron's Lair (I think there is chance Titans will be villains from start) or Icecrown Citadel
- first raid: Utgarde (major enemies Vrykuls)
- second zone/raid: underground Azjol'Nerub
- final zone/raid: Storm Peaks (showdown with Titans).

[Darkarath]

Both Quel'thalas and Northrend would be re-created from the scratch. Any other option would feel like a scam, especially after Draenor.

The only way in which Quel'thalas would not get a full revamp is that Blizzard takes the chance to revamp all Northren Eastern Kingdoms' zones. Although IMO, even in that case, it would not be justified.

I cannot stop thinking about that possibility, though. Gilneas and the Undercity both need urgent revamps, and they would be the perfect capital cities for the expansion. If Blizzard only wants one capital city, a healed Stratholme could be perfect too. I just do not see Silvermoon as a shared city in 12.0. Maybe at the end of Midnight, like Amirdrassil.

[Lady Atia]

Both Quel'thalas and Northrend would be re-created from the scratch. Any other option would feel like a scam, especially after Draenor.

The only way in which Quel'thalas would not get a full revamp is that Blizzard takes the chance to revamp all Northren Eastern Kingdoms' zones. Although IMO, even in that case, it would not be justified.

I cannot stop thinking about that possibility, though. Gilneas and the Undercity both need urgent revamps, and they would be the perfect capital cities for the expansion. If Blizzard only wants one capital city, a healed Stratholme could be perfect too. I just do not see Silvermoon as a shared city in 12.0. Maybe at the end of Midnight, like Amirdrassil.

Again, no clue why you want to merge the Lordaeron Expansion with the QT Expansion. Both settings are big enough to have their own time to shine, especially if the Arathi attack us first which can give us the Lordaeron Expansion before we counter invade Avaloren.

[Darkarath]

Again, no clue why you want to merge the Lordaeron Expansion with the QT Expansion. Both settings are big enough to have their own time to shine, especially if the Arathi attack us first which can give us the Lordaeron Expansion before we counter invade Avaloren.

Fair.

I just do not think that Blizzard would make 4 more expansions between the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor to fully revamp them.

I'm completely sure that eventually they will revamp, at the very least, all Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, but I don't think that they are willing to do it in so many years of expansions.

[Lady Atia]

Fair.

I just do not think that Blizzard would make 4 more expansions between the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor to fully revamp them.

I'm completely sure that eventually they will revamp, at the very least, all Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, but I don't think that they are willing to do it in so many years of expansions.

But why not? They clearly don't plan to kill the game within the next 20 years, so they need some more "'member vanilla" expansions between new places to explore.

[Darkarath]

But why not? They clearly don't plan to kill the game within the next 20 years, so they need some more "'member vanilla" expansions between new places to explore.

I would certainly enjoy that they took whatever time and number of expansions they need, but I believe that many players would not like to have to wait years to get revamped versions of zones that they got all in one go when the game released, and yet another time with Cataclysm with even more new zones.

[Dracullus]

I would certainly enjoy that they took whatever time and number of expansions they need, but I believe that many players would not like to have to wait years to get revamped versions of zones that they got all in one go when the game released, and yet another time with Cataclysm with even more new zones.

So if 14.0 will be new standard continent it would be fine, but it it will be same piece of content just set in old world people would suddenly whine about it because simplified version 25 years ago had bigger size? Strange logic.

I think it would be opposite, people would hype it more than Worldsoul, especially if they announce it together again and brand as let's say 'Renewal Saga': EK North, EK South and Kalimdor.

And if they keep 18 months expacs (ok, for start let's see if they achieve it for TWW), whole thing will be done under 5 years, for WoW it's not that long.

[Makorus]

I still think if Blizzard does a world revamp, they have to do it one fell swoop rather than piece-meal over four expansions.

Nothing would kill the "World of Warcraft" vibe more than only having a fourth of the world available.

[Ersula]

I still think if Blizzard does a world revamp, they have to do it one fell swoop rather than piece-meal over four expansions.

Nothing would kill the "World of Warcraft" vibe more than only having a fourth of the world available.

Tirisfal glades have 3 different versions, 4 if you include classic. Darkshore & Arathi Highlands are in BFA era while surrounded by Cata zones. I agree that doing it in bursts is dumb, mainly because the original 2 continents are relatively small. But considering the saga is presented to us, beginning in Silithus & featuring 2 classic regions, that seems consistent with their plans

[Khaza-R]

I would certainly enjoy that they took whatever time and number of expansions they need, but I believe that many players would not like to have to wait years to get revamped versions of zones that they got all in one go when the game released, and yet another time with Cataclysm with even more new zones.

That would just be people being unrealistic though. Vanilla re-uses a ton of assets they basically just pallette swapped. I would bet that a modern expansion has more unique assets then vanilla does. And Cataclysm only really visually upgraded a handful of zones. It was really more of a system update than anything.

If people want the Kalimdor and EK modernized that's an insane amout of work to bring it up to the level of a modern expansion.

I still think if Blizzard does a world revamp, they have to do it one fell swoop rather than piece-meal over four expansions.

Nothing would kill the "World of Warcraft" vibe more than only having a fourth of the world available.

That's never going to happen. Even if you completely ignore the amount of work it would take, there's simply no reason to use all that space on a single expansion unless its going to last several years. Even if you revamped the leveling experience along with it. The size of vanilla itself is not compatiable with modern WoW.

[Darkarath]

So if 14.0 will be new standard continent it would be fine, but it it will be same piece of content just set in old world people would suddenly whine about it because simplified version 25 years ago had bigger size? Strange logic.

I think it would be opposite, people would hype it more than Worldsoul, especially if they announce it together again and brand as let's say 'Renewal Saga': EK North, EK South and Kalimdor.

No. I actually believe that it is impossible that 14.0 is your standard expansion with 4 more zones and so on. But I also believe that it is impossible that Blizzard announces a new saga about revamping the old continents for the next 5 years.

First, we are getting two expansions of revamps with Midnight and TLT, so I think that it is very very unlikely that 14.0 is another revamp (unless we get a full revamp of both continents). Second, I'm sorry but Quel'thalas and Northrend do not have the same meaning for the majority of players than Un'Goro, Durotar, Redridge Mountains and so on. Lordaeron is the only one that I believe could carry an expansion by itself. Finally, if they revamp the old continents in different expansions, it would be very hard to keep a cohesive story. Although this will already be a problem with Midnight, which will be about a Void invasion, and whenever they revamp the rest of northern Eastern Kingdoms, it would probably be about other unrelated stuff, and that certainly feels very wrong.

I still think if Blizzard does a world revamp, they have to do it one fell swoop rather than piece-meal over four expansions.

Nothing would kill the "World of Warcraft" vibe more than only having a fourth of the world available.

Exactly.

[Makorus]

Tirisfal glades have 3 different versions, 4 if you include classic. Darkshore & Arathi Highlands are in BFA era while surrounded by Cata zones. I agree that doing it in bursts is dumb, mainly because the original 2 continents are relatively small. But considering the saga is presented to us, beginning in Silithus & featuring 2 classic regions, that seems consistent with their plans

Yeah but that's my point exactly.

Tirisfal Glades, Silithus, Arathi and Darkshore being "current" while everything is old just shows you how shit a partial revamp would be, plus it really stifles them in terms of making zones bigger because they have to adhere to the current zone borders.

That's never going to happen. Even if you completely ignore the amount of work it would take, there's simply no reason to use all that space on a single expansion unless its going to last several years. Even if you revamped the leveling experience along with it. The size of vanilla itself is not compatiable with modern WoW.

But you don't have to use all that space on a single expansion. It is not something that is a short-term thing, revamping the world for one expansion would be idiotic. If you do a revamp, you implement systems and content that mean that the world remains evergreen. I can understand revamping part of Quelthalas and Northrend because it is inherently tied to the storyline, but they can revamp the world independent of the current story thread. A lot of other MMOs have content that make you re-visit old zones for either world bosses, weeklies, dailies or events.

It also allows them to kind of "reset" the lore a bit and tidy up loose ends and set a lot of things straight, because a lot of story threads are still literally left hanging from Cataclysm, and I feel like advancing that gives them a lot of opportunity for smaller stories to tell in patches and what not.

Yeah, absolutely, it's a lot of effort, but I think, in the long run it'll be worth it for Blizzard.

[Joshuaj]

Both Quel'thalas and Northrend would be re-created from the scratch. Any other option would feel like a scam, especially after Draenor.

The only way in which Quel'thalas would not get a full revamp is that Blizzard takes the chance to revamp all Northren Eastern Kingdoms' zones. Although IMO, even in that case, it would not be justified.

I cannot stop thinking about that possibility, though. Gilneas and the Undercity both need urgent revamps, and they would be the perfect capital cities for the expansion. If Blizzard only wants one capital city, a healed Stratholme could be perfect too. I just do not see Silvermoon as a shared city in 12.0. Maybe at the end of Midnight, like Amirdrassil.

I always liked the idea of Blizzard doing some type of slow but assured revamp. Like, make remake Quel'thalas from scratch, but for the rest of the old zones, maybe just update how they look and give them 2025 graphics and whatnot.

Idk, I always felt like Blizzard should start out by updating all the starting/capital racial zones first. Just feels right.

- - - Updated - - -

No. I actually believe that it is impossible that 14.0 is your standard expansion with 4 more zones and so on. But I also believe that it is impossible that Blizzard announces a new saga about revamping the old continents for the next 5 years.

First, we are getting two expansions of revamps with Midnight and TLT, so I think that it is very very unlikely that 14.0 is another revamp (unless we get a full revamp of both continents). Second, I'm sorry but Quel'thalas and Northrend do not have the same meaning for the majority of players than Un'Goro, Durotar, Redridge Mountains and so on. Lordaeron is the only one that I believe could carry an expansion by itself. Finally, if they revamp the old continents in different expansions, it would be very hard to keep a cohesive story. Although this will already be a problem with Midnight, which will be about a Void invasion, and whenever they revamp the rest of northern Eastern Kingdoms, it would probably be about other unrelated stuff, and that certainly feels very wrong.



Exactly.

I can see Blizzard making an expansion focused on finishing off the old world revamps. Like I said before, my dream expansions for the next saga are as follows (But not in order): EK and Kalimdor revamp, Avaloren, Outland Revamp.