Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I don't want them to waste resources on a "real" revamp, but HD textures would be fine. Especially if they can also be used for new content.

Don't speak for people you don't know.

Actually changing textures is probably the harder part of a visual update. World objects, from minor doodads like bushes and fences to world map objects like housing and caves have largely been getting revamped so that the new versions or spatially identical and thus they could be replaced far faster. Meanwhile I doubt you can simply apply HD textures to the existing structure and get good results, largely because transitions will be even more jarring than they currently are.
I maintain that the most important part if they opt to do a visual update over a revamp (which I find vastly more likely) would be to find a way to improve zone transitions by changing the horrible "hills" that establish the borders of most zones (which let's face it, most were just a dev using the Cliff Level tool on an expanded version of the WC3 map editor compared to anything crafted from MoP onward). The good thing is, those areas have no quests and no mobs on them which means that changing their geography will not change any coordinates that would affect quest object placement or NPC pathing etc.

[Lahis]

So by your logic Legion and BfA were postponed 9 months xD.

Legion had ridicilously long beta and WoD had stupid long last patch. Definetly postponed.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

On the subject of us lot discussing theories. Remember when a lot of us during Dragonflight leak season were convinced this guy was a Blizzard employee sent here to get discussion and hype riled up?

Also, I came across this while backtracking through the thread, and I just remembered he said this all the way back in January after @Nymrohd and another poster talked about the Dragonflight megadungeon:

"Deaths of Chromie"

It isn't really germane to the conversation we're on now, and though I don't recall, I would figure a good number of people were betting on that anyway. Still, I figure it's a nice thing to note for the fun of it and for future reference. He also mentioned the idea a bit later in more detail. To be fair, there's still a strong possibility he's just screwing with us and is just a sharp person who happens to be good at taking cues from past expansions to make a few vague or reasonable-to-the-point-of-inevitability predictions, but I still think it's fun to entertain the possibility.

[huth]

Actually changing textures is probably the harder part of a visual update. World objects, from minor doodads like bushes and fences to world map objects like housing and caves have largely been getting revamped so that the new versions or spatially identical and thus they could be replaced far faster. Meanwhile I doubt you can simply apply HD textures to the existing structure and get good results, largely because transitions will be even more jarring than they currently are.
I maintain that the most important part if they opt to do a visual update over a revamp (which I find vastly more likely) would be to find a way to improve zone transitions by changing the horrible "hills" that establish the borders of most zones (which let's face it, most were just a dev using the Cliff Level tool on an expanded version of the WC3 map editor compared to anything crafted from MoP onward). The good thing is, those areas have no quests and no mobs on them which means that changing their geography will not change any coordinates that would affect quest object placement or NPC pathing etc.

Unless it's purpose built for it, a new texture has to come with a new model, no contest there. But that new model should be usable in new content, too. Like the new Gnolls. It's more about the reusability. And the comparison is to a full revamp.

Player-race based NPCs in those zones could get some newer gear models, though. Which would in some cases literally just be HD textures.

[Nymrohd]

Unless it's purpose built for it, a new texture has to come with a new model, no contest there. But that new model should be usable in new content, too. Like the new Gnolls. It's more about the reusability. And the comparison is to a full revamp.

Player-race based NPCs in those zones could get some newer gear models, though. Which would in some cases literally just be HD textures.

Oh by textures there I was talking about map textures for world model. The old world model is very low poly. Compare the ground and cliffs/mountains in modern zones to those in old areas. The difference is massive.
I don't think we are missing that many NPC models. It's just a few things like giraffes for the Barrens.

[huth]

Oh by textures there I was talking about map textures for world model. The old world model is very low poly. Compare the ground and cliffs/mountains in modern zones to those in old areas. The difference is massive.
I don't think we are missing that many NPC models. It's just a few things like giraffes for the Barrens.

Sure, but those are applied in a much different way from object textures. For that matter, they're now applied completely differently from back then. Stretching isn't an issue.

[Nymrohd]

Sure, but those are applied in a much different way from object textures. For that matter, they're now applied completely differently from back then. Stretching isn't an issue.

Which is why I never talked about fitting but rather about transitions from one texture to the other especially in zone changes (Swamp of Sorrows to Blasted Lands is a particularly egregious example) and about how HD textures would look applied to lower polygon areas in the world model especially when it comes to elevation changes.

[huth]

Which is why I never talked about fitting but rather about transitions from one texture to the other especially in zone changes (Swamp of Sorrows to Blasted Lands is a particularly egregious example) and about how HD textures would look applied to lower polygon areas in the world model especially when it comes to elevation changes.

They had that solved by MoP.

[Loreguy126]

Legion had ridicilously long beta and WoD had stupid long last patch. Definetly postponed.

Just throwing in my random, but needed opinion. I think expansions with 3 major patches are far superior than the .2 thing that seems to be the new way of Blizz development.

Dragonflight is the first recent expansion where I feel a 10.3 is actually needed. There are enough plot lines to follow, and 10.1 was a dud, at least for me since Zaralek Cavern and Aberrus were a bit lackluster?

A good 10.2 & a great 10.3 is what DF needs to be a contender for best expac, and historically the .3 patches do great to build lore into the next expansion…

[Luck4]

I don't want them to waste resources on a "real" revamp, but HD textures would be fine. Especially if they can also be used for new content.

Don't speak for people you don't know.

I think we don't need a World Revamp for graphics, ofc would be good to see old zones in HD, but what we need is story plot build-ups with proper introductions and foreshadowing, something that is missing since BFA ended, and while Dragonflight fixed nearly every single problem of the game, the lore/story still is lame AF.

Remove the Lich King/Scourge plot, and Northrend becomes just an ice cap, remove Illidan/Kael'thas/Vashj plot, and Outland becomes just a rock with a bunch of random demons, remove Garrosh plot, and Pandaria becomes just a generic chinese knock-off.

We can't fool ourselves, the story is a major factor in WoW's success, and Legion being seen as the last good expansion is proof of that.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I wouldn't really care for world revamp if it would just end up with better graphics and no actual systems or new stories attached to at least some of the zones.

[Nymrohd]

I wouldn't really care for world revamp if it would just end up with better graphics and no actual systems or new stories attached to at least some of the zones.

I think a visually updated world would be easier to use for content. They could have smaller questlines running through it. They already do it with heritage quests and anniversary events and it very much looks like crap.

[Telogrus]

Disappointed that they didn’t talk about 10.1.7. Isn’t that going to be on the PTR very soon?

[Luck4]

I wouldn't really care for world revamp if it would just end up with better graphics and no actual systems or new stories attached to at least some of the zones.

That's how I feel too.

Why this cinematic was so epic back in the day?



One single word: FORESHADOWING

We knew what that conclusion represents, what that planet is, what it might become, and what we may face.

People talk all the time about Void Lords, First Ones, and the Pantheon of Life/Death/Order/Disorder/Void/Light, but we didn't even know such individuals existed before meeting the Pantheon of Death in Shadowlands, leave alone the fact that we don't even know a single name from some of these cosmic forces, hell, we don't even have a clear "updated" idea of what a Void Lord is...

Now tell me when did we first hear about the Titans and Sargeras? All the f***ing way back in Vanilla!

Vanilla seeded countless plots, the High/Blood Elves hints, the Burning Legion status, the Scourge status, the Old Gods, the Black Dragons plot, the Dragonflights, the Emerald Dream, the Troll Empire (Zandalar Tribe), the Elemental Lords, the Goblin Cartels, and all this stuff served as the foundation or build-up for many expansions to come.

This is the primary reason why I want to back to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, to see something like that to make a proper introduction for cosmic planes and the next expansions plots.

Sorry about the rant, but seeing this awesome franchise being reduced to such low-key generic stories really upsets me.

[Makabreska]

Disappointed that they didn’t talk about 10.1.7. Isn’t that going to be on the PTR very soon?

Vendor build (or w/e you call it) was spotted, so probably yes.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry about the rant, but seeing this awesome franchise being reduced to such low-key generic stories really upsets me.

And what can you do when you finally close the 20+ years stories of main characters of the series? Of course that newly invented stuff will feel inferior and never this epic.

[Foolicious]

Disappointed that they didn’t talk about 10.1.7. Isn’t that going to be on the PTR very soon?

Should be coming soon after 10.1.5 launches i guess. Probably didn't talk about it because it won't be as big as 10.0.7. I doubt we will see a new zone, but the usual catchup gear for alts, some new story quests, some qol stuff, some new customization.
Hopefully now that people seem to be maxing out profession knowledge some catchup for the lazy ones.

[Luck4]

And what can you do when you finally close the 20+ years stories of main characters of the series? Of course that newly invented stuff will never feel this epic.

We don't need 20+ years to tell a good story. While it's true that 20 years have passed, we only had two expansions about the Burning Legion, most expansions hadn't much to do with them, but we had a proper introduction in Warcraft 3 and small updates here and there in Vanilla, Shadowlands failed, because it wasn't seeded back in Wrath, the opposite of Legion where in TBC we faced Kil'jaeden but was clear in the raid that he would come back, and we also got a background and follow-up on Illidan story from TBC era.

In my opinion, this is the best cinematic of Shadowlands, literally the only time we get an interesting connection that didn't feel like a forced retcon, although it was barely explained/hinted.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

This is the primary reason why I want to back to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, to see something like that to make a proper introduction for cosmic planes and the next expansions plots.

I would like come back to Kalimdor and eastern kingdoms because i just love many areas there, the architecture and just simple atmopshere, that's why i like lvling new toons because i really like going through some iconic horde zones and alliance.

I love heritage questlines and find them much more interesting than main story because they are related to some things i was wondering about for some time and advance at least a little bit of story there after years.

If i had the time i would probably play some classic to get the better feeling of lvling, because some people i know went there and didn't return to retail, but i don't have time for 2 wow games and i like progressing my acc on retail in various ways when i have time to play it.

[Chickat]

Last I recall, orcs haven't been obtrusively relevant since Warlords of Draenor; Saurfang was a prominent character in BfA, but shared the spotlight with a number of night elf and forsaken characters. With Shadowlands and Dragonflight not being exceptionally orc-heavy, I'd say more orcs is plenty fine.

Personally, I'd like to see the more malevolent Mag'har contrasted with the more peaceful orcs of Durotar. It'd be a nice way to resolve that schizophrenic characterization and allow the Horde to have the best of both worlds, orcwise.

I would say Night elves have been more relevant than orcs in the past 8 years.

[Santandame]

I would say Night elves have been more relevant than orcs in the past 8 years.

The most relevant races of the past few expansions, not including allied races and Dracthyr, have been:

Night Elves
Undead
Humans
Draenei

Whilst Saurfang was indeed prominent in BfA, Orcs as a whole have very much been on the sideline since WoD. You’d have thought they’d have a prominent showing in Legion considering their history with the Legion.

The Draenei got huge showings in both WoD and Legion, after being neglected since TBC. Undead have felt like the premier horde race the past few years due to how much exposure they were getting because of the Sylvanas arc. Humans are humans and will always be at the forefront. Night Elves, for good or ill considering their story development, have felt like the “starring role” of races for the past few years though. From Legion throughout to Dragonflight.

I’m definitely looking forward to some more Orc content. I want to see prominence and development for all of the races if a World Revamp does come to fruition though. That said, Dwarves, Worgen, Gnomes, Tauren, Goblins, Pandaren and to a lesser extent Orcs, Trolls and Blood Elves are all in need of some love, both story and exposure wise.