Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Timester]

Anduin's entire thing is over his guilt over the whole Shadowlands incident and enjoying not being in control, just letting the Jailer pull the reigns. Its the exact same storyline beat as Silverbolt from Transformers Beast Machines. Anduin had a connection to the Light the whole time, he just couldn't call on it due to that. This is like, a longstanding thing in the Warcraft series ever since Of Blood and Honour that someone's mental state has a massive impact if they can call upon the Light. Tirion still had access to the Light despite the whole excommunication thing, it just took him time and realisation to come to that.

People don't know what much of Thrall's and Anduin's personas and experiencies are actually mirrors so much Metzen's own life experiencies, the retiring, the losing the faith, the reconnection and being back to what made him great in the first place.

[Makabreska]

Blizzard needs to hire bold Writers: Get storytellers who aren’t afraid to take risks, like the Wrath team did with Arthas’s tragic arc.

What tragic arc, what risks? All Arthas tragedy was done in W3 and by the time WotLK hit, dude was a full evil lord of undead who ripped out his own heart to get rid of last parts of humanity. WotLK was fully capitalising on W3 story, and not very well really, with Arthas grand plan of keeping taunting us entire expansion in a hope of turning us into undead in the end.

[Black Rider]

What tragic arc, what risks? All Arthas tragedy was done in W3 and by the time WotLK hit, dude was a full evil lord of undead who ripped out his own heart to get rid of last parts of humanity. WotLK was fully capitalising on W3 story, and not very well really, with Arthas grand plan of keeping taunting us entire expansion in a hope of turning us into unread in the end.

Okay, what about Garrosh story? It wasn't during W3

[Timester]

I mean, the fact it isn't relevant to the entire expansion as we know it and doesn't deal with Xal'atath or the Black Blood? There's a reason we're debating "Rootlands or K'aresh" in this thread and not "The Red Dawn are going to come back in patch 11.2", and that's because this is just a side story.

Now, if the Red Dawn had some Black Blood weapons and Xal showed up to them saying "Hey " then it'd be relevant but. That's not what happens. So its clearly a side story because, side stories popular

It's actually more. It actually takes the idea of "there is a mega human supremacist empire out there that will unite all Humanity and kill everyone else". No, the Arathi Empire isn't human supremacist like Red Dawn, the Arathi Empire is a Light zealot empire no matter which race.

[shooketh]

So you moved goalposts, because original didn't started with MoP. And funny that you mention MoP, the one that the most vocal were "lol Pandas" "friendship sucks, why are we are fighting OUR WARCHIEF?". It's fun to see how time dilutes the perception.

Not at all, I choose MoP as the starting point because, at least to me, that's when it felt like they're actually taking the lore and story serious. At face value, yes, it was "lol Pandas", but it ended up being much more nuanced than that.
Vanilla and TBC didn't really have an overarching story, just bits and pieces here and there with their own conclusion.
Wrath/the Lich King was nothing more than a saturday morning cartoon villain, appearing multiple times through questing and teasing the player before his inevitable death.
Cata was just silly overall. We still remember Green Jesus, and how poorly him and Aggra were written. And we still remember how poorly Uldum was written, basically an entire zone dedicated to Indiana Jones.

You skipped any entire shortstory:

The entire purpose of it is to kill any hope of faction conflict ever returning. That's it. Marran is written as the antagonist here as she believes that Arathi Highlands belongs to the humans, and it's bad if she tries to fight the orcs to achieve that goal.
Throughout WoW's history, both horde and alliance used to unite against the big bad, but there always was that palpable tension and animosity between them, and it was reflected in dialogue and often times even through action. Now, it's all about tolerance and acceptance and friendship with one another. And that just makes the entire world boring.

[Makabreska]

Okay, what about Garrosh story? It wasn't during W3

Ye, what about him? You were talking about Arthas.

And Garrosh story in WotLK was going a full 180° from greatly apathetic and ashamed orc to ridiculously aggressive warmonger, just because Thrall told about him his father last moments.

[Timester]

Okay, what about Garrosh story? It wasn't during W3

Garrosh wasn't a risk, was a mess because Afrisiabi not talking with the rest of the team.

[Mecheon]

It's actually more. It actually takes the idea of "there is a mega human supremacist empire out there that will unite all Humanity and kill everyone else". No, the Arathi Empire isn't human supremacist like Red Dawn, the Arathi Empire is a Light zealot empire no matter which race.

Oh yeah, absolutely being set up for later stuff so we can have some ready made enemies who we haven't murdered yet.

[Joshuaj]

Blizzard needs to hire bold Writers: Get storytellers who aren’t afraid to take risks, like the Wrath team did with Arthas’s tragic arc.

Lmaoooo????

The Wrath team didn't so shit. Wrath was carried by WC3, and I'll stand by that.

[shooketh]

Garrosh wasn't a risk, was a mess because Afrisiabi not talking with the rest of the team.

Was it a mess? Because he's one of the few characters people like and often bring up. The cinematic of Garrosh disenchanting himself in Shadowlands was very well received, probably the best out of the entire expansion, even though they allocated a $10 budget for it, considering how low quality it was.

[Timester]

The entire purpose of it is to kill any hope of faction conflict ever returning. That's it. Marran is written as the antagonist here as she believes that Arathi Highlands belongs to the humans, and it's bad if she tries to fight the orcs to achieve that goal.
Throughout WoW's history, both horde and alliance used to unite against the big bad, but there always was that palpable tension and animosity between them, and it was reflected in dialogue and often times even through action. Now, it's all about tolerance and acceptance and friendship with one another. And that just makes the entire world boring.

How showing that something still exist is kill any hope?

The Legacy of Arathor questline wasn't even needed, Heartlands shortstory done it. It wasn't needed to bring it back, now adding the Arathor Empire view to the story. The fact that they decided to bring it back just shows that faction conflict will always exist in some shape or another.

That's the entire WoW lore, ensuring that the Cycle of Hatred is maintained broken. Marran Trollbane is just a supremacist, like many others that appeared in Warcraft story.

[shooketh]

Lmaoooo????

The Wrath team didn't so shit. Wrath was carried by WC3, and I'll stand by that.

Wrath also had a banger cinematic, one of the best in gaming in my opinion, nevermind WoW, still legendary to this day, great music and art direction, Tirion was awesome, Ulduar was awesome alongside the entire Stormpeaks/Titan questlines, and the Wrathgate cinematic is still remembered to this day.

Nothing from Dragonflight or TWW gets even close to those.

[Timester]

Was it a mess? Because he's one of the few characters people like and often bring up. The cinematic of Garrosh disenchanting himself in Shadowlands was very well received, probably the best out of the entire expansion, even though they allocated a $10 budget for it, considering how low quality it was.

Again, it just shows how little you know about WoW story development, how Garrosh was developed differently by TWO XPAC TEAMS at the exact same time. Team A wrote him as a anti-hero, Team B wrote him as a villain and Team A didn't talked with Team B at all (Team A being Alex Afrisiabi). It's well known WoW dev history.

[shooketh]

Again, it just shows how little you know about WoW story development, how Garrosh was developed differently by TWO XPAC TEAMS at the exact same time. Team A wrote him as a anti-hero, Team B wrote him as a villain and Team A didn't talked with Team B at all (Team A being Alex Afrisiabi). It's well known WoW dev history.

Doesn't matter, people still like him because of how unwavering he was in his beliefs. And he even disenchanted himself from the game without apologizing. That shows conviction and character, and people tend to appreciate that.

Now everyone is wishy washy.

[Khaza-R]

Garrosh wasn't a risk, was a mess because Afrisiabi not talking with the rest of the team.

Eh, I think that's really oversimplifying it. Because it wasn't just one quest where he was portrayed as having more honorable qualties.

From his short story :

“An ambush on open troops waiting to fight is one thing. To attack a regiment already engaged in battle with another from behind? What would you do next?” Garrosh demanded. “Would you sneak into their camp and poison their water? Would you enslave one of their commanders with magic and force him to murder his troops while they sleep? Would you rain disease upon your enemies, like the Forsaken? Would you fight the way they do?”

Its clear even in MoP that Blizzard wasn't sure how to write him. One minute he goes on a lecture about how murder is wrong then next he's screaming about slaughtering Alliance children for funzies. Regardles though, he was a fun, complex character. Even if the complexity wasn't totally intentional.

[Timester]

Tirion was awesome.

Tirion, the one that lost the connection with the Light because he helped an orc (Eitrigg) and Knights of the Silver Hand "ripped" the Light out of him? A story older than Warcraft III?

[shooketh]

Tirion, the one that lost the connection with the Light because he helped an orc (Eitrigg) and Knights of the Silver Hand "ripped" the Light out of him? A story older than Warcraft III?

Yes?
Him getting to wield the Ashbringer and be the leading force against the scourge/Lich king was great character development. Just years prior he was sitting in a decrepit shack in Plaguelands.

[Timester]

Eh, I think that's really oversimplifying it. Because it wasn't just one quest where he was portrayed as having more honorable qualties.

It's actually factual Wow dev history:

"So Garrosh was yours, huh? From beginning to end?

Not quite from beginning to end.

Cataclysm seemed like he was going in a different direction for a while there ...

He was.

He was? Tell us about that -- why he had that shift.

Miscommunication.

So Stonetalon ...

Me.

You did Stonetalon?

I did Stonetalon.

I didn't stick to that path with Garrosh. I didn't -- not everyone was on board. Not everyone got the memo as it were, as we were designing -- and that was my fault. Because when you're doing, when you're trying -- because I was actually trying to bring Garrosh around, and Stonetalon was going to be the first of that. Cataclysm was pretty crazy time for us.

You had so much to do.

We did quite a lot of work. So I feel like there was a little bit of miscommunication on my part that kind of led to Garrosh going down another, darker path. So there's an interesting tidbit for you.

It was interesting though, in the aspect of seeing that glimmer of what he could have been.

Well he was good at the other way. He did well at that. He was a good killer and plunderer and murderer."

https://www.engadget.com/2014-11-11-...e-azeroth.html

[huth]

Tirion, the one that lost the connection with the Light because he helped an orc (Eitrigg) and Knights of the Silver Hand "ripped" the Light out of him? A story older than Warcraft III?

And then defeated the Lich King by the Light suddenly remembering that they had a Paladin at the top of Icecrown and breaking him out with no real justification for why he didn't do it earlier.

[Timester]

Yes?
Him getting to wield the Ashbringer and be the leading force against the scourge/Lich king was great character development. Just years prior he was sitting in a decrepit shack in Plaguelands.

Look at that, just like Anduin in Hallowfall. Under why, it's like the same person (Metzen) wrote both stories.