Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Won't be able to see your exact house and neighborhood in the main continent, but you'll see an abstraction of it. Will require a loading screen even when flying into it.

So, the main continents are being updated to some extent. What do we think about the implications here?

[Dvalin]

Quel'thalas is more known and popular than K'aresh, is all I'm saying. A good chunk of the lapsed subscribers have fond memories of Quel'thalas. Nobody has fond memories of K'aresh (obviously).

Current lore of Quel'thalas is also more diverse and expansive than K'aresh. And it also has lots of room for modern improvements. Just imagine how an updated Amani zone would look like.

[Marlamin]

Won't be able to see your exact house and neighborhood in the main continent, but you'll see an abstraction of it. Will require a loading screen even when flying into it.

So, the main continents are being updated to some extent. What do we think about the implications here?

I think the abstraction in the overworld is going to be much smaller. Taliesin mentioned the example of the battleground entrances vs. the battlegrounds themselves. I wouldn't get -too- invested in them properly updating Elwynn/Durotar.

[Cheezits]

I think the abstraction in the overworld is going to be much smaller. Taliesin mentioned the example of the battleground entrances vs. the battlegrounds themselves. I wouldn't get -too- invested in them properly updating Elwynn/Durotar.

Just a change to the world itself sounds interesting, even if it's a fake wall. It sounds like you can fly inside so that does answer what we were wondering about a few weeks ago.

[Marlamin]

Just a change to the world itself sounds interesting, even if it's a fake wall. It sounds like you can fly inside so that does answer what we were wondering about a few weeks ago.

From what I understood it's kind of the opposite where you won't be able to zone in by flying in (so not like how garrisons work).

At least, right now.

[Cheezits]

From what I understood it's kind of the opposite where you won't be able to zone in by flying in (so not like how garrisons work).

They said you can fly in, but there's a loading screen. So I am curious if there's a pigeonholed entrance, which is not what I got the impression of (they said it's not like TBC Quel'thalas I believe)

...which I also think kind of implies that Midnight Quel'thalas will not be instanced.

[Marlamin]

They said you can fly in, but there's a loading screen. So I am curious if there's a pigeonholed entrance, which is not what I got the impression of (they said it's not like TBC Quel'thalas I believe)

Hmm, okay. That's somewhat disappointing if they're going to stick with that given they have a good amount of tech that's -almost- perfect for this.

[Hitei]

Hmm, okay. That's somewhat disappointing if they're going to stick with that given they have a good amount of tech that's -almost- perfect for this.

But can previous instances of loading tech really be directly applied to this specific circumstance? It's one thing to phase into another set phase of a subzone, or a garrison with a few building options/tier states, or whatnot--it's another thing to try and mass load the downtown part of a neighborhood full of individually customized houses.

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Also they said the zones are pretty significant in size didn't they (and also I think that they are potentially different structurally from one to the next)? Elwynn and Durotar are tiny, so I'm not sure how well any sort of non-loading screen option would work here.

[Marlamin]

But can previous instances of loading tech really be directly applied to this specific circumstance? It's one thing to phase into another set phase of a subzone, or a garrison with a few building options/tier states, or whatnot--it's another thing to try and mass load the downtown part of a neighborhood full of individually customized houses.

I did say almost. I highly doubt they're going to load the exteriors for -all- the houses in a neighborhood in one go anyways, so they'd already need to have some sort of level of detail system when going through the neighborhoods where only nearby houses are fully loaded up. There's almost certainly work they'd have to do in terms of being able to seamless teleport in, but with phasing (WotLK), terrain phasing (Cata), parent maps (MoP), cosmetic maps/garrisons (WoD) and increasingly seamless transitions with e.g. airlocks (DF/TWW) it feels like most of the tech is there and this would be another evolution in that regard.

Obviously there's the big question of how it'd work with there not being a visually as-large zone in the overworld they'd have to transition to, but I'm sure there's designs they can come up with that solve that.

[Sondrelk]

From what I understood it's kind of the opposite where you won't be able to zone in by flying in (so not like how garrisons work).

At least, right now.

Wasnt the loading screen just in reference to the interior?

[Marlamin]

Wasnt the loading screen just in reference to the interior?

Possibly, a loading screen between the neighborhood and interior would be the least surprising thing given the fact the houses have the TARDIS problem where they're much much bigger on the inside. I'll have to go through each of the videos to get proper context for it, which I'm slowly starting to do.

[Hitei]

Obviously there's the big question of how it'd work with there not being a visually as-large zone in the overworld they'd have to transition to, but I'm sure there's designs they can come up with that solve that.

I think this works within reason, but I also think there's going to be a very significant discrepancy here.

[Marlamin]

I think this works within reason, but I also think there's going to be a very significant discrepancy here.

Yeah, it fully depends on the actual size of these as well as where they are located. Above Stormwind there's a pretty good spot but for Durotar not as much. There's also apparently a Duskwood themed subzone, so my example wouldn't make sense placement wise.

[Hitei]

Yeah, it fully depends on the actual size of these as well as where they are located. Above Stormwind there's a pretty good spot but for Durotar not as much. There's also apparently a Duskwood themed subzone, so my example wouldn't make sense placement wise.

I think thematically the Elwynn segment is supposed to basically be the Westbrook garrison slice separated by the river, that extends from the hills south of Stormwind down to Hogger where the corners of Westfall and Duskwood meet.

But just from the brief footage clips they gave the content creators:

(1)
(2)

It's a huge chunk of land, it looks like it might even extend out across the river to an actual separate westfall section (is that a house in the back there?)

[Marlamin]

I think thematically the Elwynn segment is supposed to basically be the Westbrook garrison slice separated by the river, that extends from the hills south of Stormwind down to Hogger where the corners of Westfall and Duskwood meet.

But just from the brief footage clips they gave the content creators:

(1)
(2)

It's a huge chunk of land, it looks like it might even extend out across the river to an actual separate westfall section (is that a house in the back there?)

Yeah, at that scale it does make sense it wouldn't be very seamless. It sounds like they just made a design choice to go for an entirely separate experience, which is fine I guess. I was envisioning smaller neighborhoods personally, so not like the 50-plot zones that are this spread out.

[Cheezits]

I think thematically the Elwynn segment is supposed to basically be the Westbrook garrison slice separated by the river, that extends from the hills south of Stormwind down to Hogger where the corners of Westfall and Duskwood meet.

But just from the brief footage clips they gave the content creators:

(1)
(2)

It's a huge chunk of land, it looks like it might even extend out across the river to an actual separate westfall section (is that a house in the back there?)

Yeah, I'm impressed by the scale. Also this kind of lines up with the ideas that have been toyed around in this area about turning old WoW zones into "megazones" that stretch far and encompass multiple themes.

The second picture does imply there's a whole chunk of Westfall.

One of the interviews said there's a "Forsaken" area in the Durotar one, but I wonder if they just mean it looks like the Cleft of Shadows. Dratnos also said it extends into Ashenvale which has some VERY funny implications.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, at that scale it does make sense it wouldn't be very seamless. It sounds like they just made a design choice to go for an entirely separate experience, which is fine I guess. I was envisioning smaller neighborhoods personally, so not like the 50-plot zones that are this spread out.

I am starting to wonder whether the decision to have 50-plot neighborhoods came from the need to make it a separate instanced zone. If it was just a handful of plots, then they probably could have put it somewhere in Durotar or Elwynn quite easily. But if they needed to make it an instanced zone, then having it be small would probably just look weird and incongrous.

Would also explain why they ahve not confirmed other neighborhoods. As I have said before, places like Bel'ameth makes perfect sense for housing given it is completely empty outside the handful of NPCs.
But if it is a completely new zone, then they need to make it from the ground up, which is probably moer effort than it's worth at this time.

[Cheezits]

Would also explain why they ahve not confirmed other neighborhoods. As I have said before, places like Bel'ameth makes perfect sense for housing given it is completely empty outside the handful of NPCs.
But if it is a completely new zone, then they need to make it from the ground up, which is probably moer effort than it's worth at this time.

I would not be surprised if only the first two hoods are very big, as they are the default and premier ones.

The supposed Undermine one and Bel'ameth would be smaller and more contained, but would work well all the same.

[Illuminance]

2x loading screens to get in your house feels like a letdown in 2025, especially with all the tech they've been developing. To get into your house, you'll have to probably travel to the neighborhood via hearthstone (or summoning stone? which was mentioned in Tali's video), and then a second loading screen almost immediately to walk inside.

It's similarly jank when I go to Stormwind to go to Boralus to go to Ironforge, just non-stop loading screens. This is a byproduct of their ridiculous and outdated teleport system where you have to have 20 years of experience to know the actual shortest route to each place in the game (portal rooms? toys? mages? tram? some random necklace?), rather than fast travel or marking locations to teleport to later.

At the bare minimum, I feel like they could play some kind of animation instead of the original loading screen or use the "air lock" style that was mentioned for DF/TWW. Maybe your client takes over once you get to a canopy of trees and the assets load as you fly over the forest. I don't know. It's a solvable problem with some effort on their end.

Black Desert's housing pops in assets when you open the door which is awkward in its own way, but much less disruptive than a loading screen. They also allow transparency in and out of windows, which is something I think Blizz is underrating -- the ability to see out into the neighborhood and likewise people can look in and see you if you have the windows open. They're relying a little too much on Wildstar and FFXIV's instanced housing to get to the point of non-functional windows. In the same vein, I'll add that the mismatch between exterior and interior sizes is going to be silly, but that mismatch is as big as you want to make it I guess.

One thing that they didn't address at all is how you secure an actual housing plot. Some plots will be more desirable to some (or all) players, so how do you handle that situation when everyone's "dream house" is waterfront? Going to be interesting to see how that's sorted out.

[Sondrelk]

I would not be surprised if only the first two hoods are very big, as they are the default and premier ones.

The supposed Undermine one and Bel'ameth would be smaller and more contained, but would work well all the same.

That was my first guess way back when. But now I am not so sure. If the 50-player limit is less about socializing, and more about the developers needing to justify having a large zone because of required loading screens, then smaller more intimate neighborhoods don't really make sense. Might as well make big zones again, and then fill them with players.