Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

There was a much bigger time gap between both KJ fights and I was talking more about encounter design. BC was still a very much experimental phase of WoW while BfA is a modern game version. I doubt Blizz would put extra effort on themselves to try to reinvent Azshara fight, especially with how they like to iterate on classic designs when bringing back old bosses. I could see her being part of a council fight, or a final dungeon boss where we fight her indirectly.

Unless she transforms into something entirely new.

Unrelated but does anyone have a reasoning on why they uncapped all crests but did not uncap valorstones?

[Joshuaj]

Unless she transforms into something entirely new.

Goddess Azshara: Empress of Darkness!

[Timester]

Sadly, current writers are beholden to a small echo chamber on bluesky/twitter so anytime they try to deviate from this boring formula or touch topics that may be seen as controversial, said echo chamber has a meltdown, because some people have a really, really hard time separating fiction from reality.

You are currently banned, but answering to this. Before there was no such thing as social media and writers presented what they wanted without outside input of any sort. "Writer small echo chamber" is a complete oxymoron when you are creator, we aren't supposed to give them any type of creative feedback. It's common knowledge that writers isolate themselves from society to have creative process.

You just have clearly no idea and heck, see the Shinning (ignore the ghost possession part).

At the end of the day, you don't like it? Don't consume it. Just like good old days, internet didn't gave you the power over creative brainstorm. I hate Shadowlands cosmic development, but it's not my right to demand any input on the writing of it.

[Ersula]

Nicely put. Unfortunately it isn't even an issue limited to World of Warcraft these days, as practically every fantasy setting is eroding away any depth, nuance and unique racial characteristics.

You are far too young to be this old.

[Dvalin]

You are far too young to be this old.

Yeah, correct. As if Vanilla-Cata was this epitome of storytelling and narrative.

I'd argue the pace and way of storytelling is actually quite good in TWW. We get in-game epilogues/prologues, fully voice-acted and optional dialogue options as well. I'd even argue that storytelling has never been this important in-game since DF. As earlier expansions had lots of lore outside of the game.

Oh and people seem to have forgotten Go'el's Cata questline. Or 'the Age of Mortals'. My God. The Lich King was a parody of its WC3 version, as well. And don't get me started on the depth of a puddle BC's lore was, with every (semi-)famous WC2/3 villain getting the villain-bat and killed in a raid as some kind of faceless mook.

[Foolicious]

Unrelated but does anyone have a reasoning on why they uncapped all crests but did not uncap valorstones?

When it comes to currencies, reputation or stuff like that the answer has usually something to do with the limitations they are working with when using those ancient systems. Maybe you need a bigger patch to uncap a formerly capped currency.

Or whats more likely is that some metric tells them that players spend more time in game when valorstones are capped and theres a penalty when sending them around.

[Cheezits]

Nicely put. Unfortunately it isn't even an issue limited to World of Warcraft these days, as practically every fantasy setting is eroding away any depth, nuance and unique racial characteristics.

The free market determines how games as a service persist. If edgy stuff doesn't sell, then it doesn't get written.

[Nymrohd]

The 'free market' has in fact determined that edgy aesthetics and the accompanying tone do indeed sell very well, as evidenced by the success and continued popularity of the likes of Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Devil May Cry and more recently Clair Obscur, a game that effectively came out of nowhere but beat out a lot of recent mainstream releases.

Wait, BG3 has edgy aesthetics? The majority of the game is spent between the fairly sunlit generic intro area and then the city. Even its Underdark zone is not particularly edgy. Only the illithid areas are really gory.

[Makabreska]

There's a lot of gore, blood, body horror and walking corpses throughout much of the game. Even in the seemingly tranquil areas.

BG3 is rated Mature while WoW is PG12. Here is your difference. Comparing them like that is apples to oranges.

[Makorus]

The 'free market' has in fact determined that edgy aesthetics and the accompanying tone do indeed sell very well, as evidenced by the success and continued popularity of the likes of Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Devil May Cry and more recently Clair Obscur, a game that effectively came out of nowhere but beat out a lot of recent mainstream releases.

Clair Obscur and especially BG3 are not edgy. DMC5 is not liked because of the edgyness (and in fact, the whole Qlipoth aesthetic was probably one of the most disliked parts of DMC5).

Just because there's "edgy" content in BG3 and Clair Obscur doesn't mean the games themselves are edgy. Most of the games you mentioned are actually good because they aren't just edgy, or wacky, or hopeful, but they are all of it. Exactly what WoW is doing.

[Cheezits]

Also, consider that what is acceptable for a 12-year-old is different in 2004 compared to 2025. Society changes. People's values change.

People swear up and down that NOBODY new plays WoW (which is a huge cope) but the changes made have 100% been made with appealing to the most people possible, as opposed to appealing to a core fan group. For better, or for worse, and people clearly pick one or the other as an opinion- but that's why these changes happen.

It may not be the best for art, but if execs think the world demands comfort and kindness, they are going to see it in WoW. Though clearly, CLEARLY there has been a pushback from how carebear DF, as people whined about it enough to enact change in TWW where things actually happen.

[Super Dickmann]

Yet speaking of points, the original comment that kicked off this debate was related to another poster declaring that there is a vocal minority who are very active on social media who seek to erode away anything that makes them feel 'uncomfy' or they identify as a way to lash out at their perceived ideological opponents (even when it makes little sense to do so)..

The main trait of this type of modern writing is the inability to write any person or group we're meant to like as having incompatible interests beyond just being good or bad. Anyone who's 'good' must be able to get along with anyone else who we should like. This is the result of two positions - a) that there's precisely one correct worldview that can be applied universally across any and all entities and b) that people and groups are all basically identical except for social factors. The combination of these two starting points mean that anyone 'good' who disagrees with anyone else good does so because they're misled, whereas anyone who's 'bad' is so because they wilfully choose to steer clear of the only right course despite being able to follow it. There is no situation where two 'good' people both want a mutually exclusive result because there's only one correct result and that result is universally positive for anyone who's nice. Only bad people can oppose that one result.

Applying this approach on an in-story level to fantasy, which is based inherently on some level of racial and cultural essentialism and the different interests of groups means that everyone eventually congeals into an identical blob, differing only on cosmetics, as implying they're irrevocably different and can't actually all come to one conclusion is regressive and implying that a conclusion might please one group but not another implies there's not an ideal endpoint of perfect equilibrium. Applying it on an out of story level means that providing the player with any kind of option except to be and be a part of these kinds of cosmetically different nice groups is a moral failing and shouldn't be allowed.

[Dvalin]

That's why I hope Odyn survives the Worldsoul Saga. He's an asshole and has done some very questionable stuff in the past, as well as more recently. But he still defended Azeroth alongside us, against a myriad of world-ending threats.

He's a pretty grey character.

[Gurahk]

There was a much bigger time gap between both KJ fights and I was talking more about encounter design. BC was still a very much experimental phase of WoW while BfA is a modern game version. I doubt Blizz would put extra effort on themselves to try to reinvent Azshara fight, especially with how they like to iterate on classic designs when bringing back old bosses. I could see her being part of a council fight, or a final dungeon boss where we fight her indirectly.

BfA to Midnight have 3 expansions inbetween.
TBC to Legion had 4.
Sounds like enough time has passed. Also they could definitely have her transform, or change her up completely for the final fight.

[arandomuser]

i think they will announce 11.2 at their xbox games showcase june 8

[Darkarath]

I'm not expecting news this week but something might be coming.

I just watched the last Poddy C (Max, Dratnos and Dorky podcast, for those unaware), and Max said that ''There will be a lot to talk about next week'', and then Dorky said, ''Especially if you are into RWF''.

So... thoughts? Seems too soon for a 11.2 reveal, but other than the announcement of the new raid in the 11.2 reveal, what is there for RWF fans?

[Nymrohd]

I'm not expecting news this week but something might be coming.

I just watched the last Poddy C (Max, Dratnos and Dorky podcast, for those unaware), and Max said that ''There will be a lot to talk about next week'', and then Dorky said, ''Especially if you are into RWF''.

So... thoughts? Seems too soon for a 11.2 reveal, but other than the announcement of the new raid in the 11.2 reveal, what is there for RWF fans?

Could be a change in the mythic raid format? Blizzard actually doing something like a tournament realm? Mythic 10man? Not saying any of that would happen (I know I'd love Mythic 10man but let's face it, it would be a disaster for guilds).
Or maybe they took all the feedback for the dinar system and are giving us some announcement on Mythic raiding rewards, maybe a new bad luck protection system (that is actually about bad luck)

[Darkarath]

Could be a change in the mythic raid format? Blizzard actually doing something like a tournament realm? Mythic 10man? Not saying any of that would happen (I know I'd love Mythic 10man but let's face it, it would be a disaster for guilds)

I doubt very much that any of those changes would happen mid-expansion. Even if they were to happen, they would likely be announced within the 11.2 reveal, right? Except the tournament realm thing, but RWF has always been a community thing and I doubt that Blizzard wants to step in there.

[Marlamin]

I just watched the last Poddy C (Max, Dratnos and Dorky podcast, for those unaware), and Max said that ''There will be a lot to talk about next week'', and then Dorky said, ''Especially if you are into RWF''.

There were some big roster changes between Echo/Method or something, it could just be that.

[Darkarath]

There were some big roster changes between Echo/Method or something, it could just be that.

Meh, I have been watching them for a while now. Very much doubt that they would hype next week on something like that. They know that their audience don't care much about such things.