Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

This is modern WoW and the precocious younger character who is opposing authority and tradition and seeking to engage with more people than their own group will always be right.

Does "modern wow" = 1999? Because I'm a bit confused how anyone could watch the first WC3 trailer, the one that has a voice over explicitly talking about how it's foolish to do what previous generations have been doing (read: fighting other people instead of working with them) and somehow, 25 years later, think that this is a modern thematic development.

[Nymrohd]

Does "modern wow" = 1999? Because I'm a bit confused how anyone could watch the first WC3 trailer, the one that has a voice over explicitly talking about how it's foolish to do what previous generations have been doing (read: fighting other people instead of working with them) and somehow, 25 years later, think that this is a modern thematic development.

I didn't talk about continuing to fight though. I talked about younger people always being right when they go against tradition. So yeah, please tell me how Arthas was right to against both Uther and Muradin.

[Cheezits]

We just had campaigns where we helped three kingdoms go back to tradition (Nerubians, Goblins, Stromgarde) and two of those involved hoisting out young(er) upstarts.

I know what you're trying to say but this ain't it.

[Hitei]

I didn't talk about continuing to fight though. I talked about younger people always being right when they go against tradition. So yeah, please tell me how Arthas was right to against both Uther and Muradin.

My guy. Do you not know who Thrall is? The young orc who went against orcish tradition, defied human authority and sought out allies amongst other groups to build a new home for his people? Do you not know who Jaina is? The young mage who went against human tradition, defied her father and nation's authority, and sought out allies among the "enemy" to help defend the world? Do you not know who Tyrande is? The woman who went against Malfurion's authority and defied their people's traditions and laws to release Illidan and work with other races in an effort to save the world?

Did you somehow miss Kael's original storyline about abandoning the isolationist homeland approach and seeking unusual allies to keep his people safe? Did you miss Wrath, where Jaina literally freezes her own leader because she believes in working together and then later in the final raid he agrees she was right? Did you miss Cata where the Goblin storyline is about a bunch of young rising business goblins working together to help each other and joining the Horde in defiance of authority and the more greedy, self-interested traditions they used to adhere to? Where at the same time the Worgen storyline is about burying old hatreds and the dangers of isolationism over working with other people? What about the entire long storyline about Anduin defying authority and seeking peaceful options in MoP? The whole Suramar insurrection in Legion about a small group of upstarts defying authority and isolationist tradition to seek allies in other groups?

When exactly do you think "the precocious younger character who is opposing authority and tradition and seeking to engage with more people than their own group will always be right" started? Because either you've just not been playing this game the past two decades, or you've severely misunderstood what is happening in game.

That Arthas in specific, Arthas who was notably trying to take sole authority and employing a "my way or the highway" strategy, went Villain doesn't change that "young character defying tradition to work together with others and make the world a better place" has been the core of this IP for 25 years.

[Makorus]

Also, "Young plucky upstart vs. old stale regime" is probably one of the oldest storytelling tropes ever because it appeals to human nature. It's not some woke new-age thing lmao.

[Nymrohd]

Also, "Young plucky upstart vs. old stale regime" is probably one of the oldest storytelling tropes ever because it appeals to human nature. It's not some woke new-age thing lmao.

Yes but I personally hate it and it makes me mad every time!

[Wyrt]

Blizzard repeatedly beating races with the "culture and tradition are bad!" stick until every race is just humans is probably one of the worst aspects of WoW.

[Joshuaj]

Blizzard repeatedly beating races with the "culture and tradition are bad!" stick until every race is just humans is probably one of the worst aspects of WoW.

This is a bit weird considering the Draenei and Orc heritage questlines, as well as the Night Elf Bel'ameth questline...

[Makorus]

Blizzard repeatedly beating races with the "culture and tradition are bad!" stick until every race is just humans is probably one of the worst aspects of WoW.

When have they done that?

[Khaza-R]

Also, "Young plucky upstart vs. old stale regime" is probably one of the oldest storytelling tropes ever because it appeals to human nature. It's not some woke new-age thing lmao.

Tbf, they also gave us the very opposite of this trope in TWW.

So much so you had the underlining theme of the upstart turning her people into something unregonizable just for the sake of "progress".

[Cheezits]

I think the last time we got the tropes mentioned was BFA, with Talanji and Taelia. Though in the latter, half of Kul Tiras was ACTUALLY corrupt as fuck because of Gorak Tul and Azshara (through Ashvane and Stormsong).

I guess you can say Pelagos counts but then again, the last two robots were corrupted/infalliable, so yeah. The Arbiter system had to be fixed.

[Khaza-R]

I think the last time we got the tropes mentioned was BFA, with Talanji and Taelia. Though in the latter, half of Kul Tiras was ACTUALLY corrupt as fuck because of Gorak Tul and Azshara (through Ashvane and Stormsong).

I guess you can say Pelagos counts but then again, the last two robots were corrupted/infalliable, so yeah. The Arbiter system had to be fixed.

I wouldn't say that's really accurate.

You had Genn step down as ruler because he can't let go of old hatreds but his daughter somehow can.

You have elements of it in the Magni / Moira / Dagran story

Same goes for Lufsela and Olbarig

Its definitely over-used in WoW but it isn't always bad.

[Nymrohd]

Btw is anyone surprised that they are not changing Soridormi? Every site advises you to just leave her there and honestly I can't say I see how they are wrong. She is not needed with 4 masks at all and that's without the full research and tributes while making your run far harder. Now maybe with 8 masks the incoming damage is so crazy you need her as a tank or healer (multitude and vengeance mask together can spiral into insane damage taken).

[Skytotem]

Sadly, current writers are beholden to a small echo chamber on bluesky/twitter so anytime they try to deviate from this boring formula or touch topics that may be seen as controversial, said echo chamber has a meltdown, because some people have a really, really hard time separating fiction from reality.

Just the other day I was reading how one of them thought that the 11.1.7 questline is really, really good, when in fact it's as boring and stale as a piece of wet paper. And these are the people that Blizzard listens to, while the rest, the 99%, think that TWW is as boring as Dragonflight.
.

Tell me you're not on blusky without telling me you're not on blusky...

[AOL Instant Messenger]

She is young and rebelling against older authority, that is the type of council that has to be deposed and replaced with something more diverse

Insert long, exasperated groan here.

[Scyth]

Insert long, exasperated groan here.

Young people, especially women, should be taught to know their place and just get on with it!

Is how I read that person’s comments. Sounds like an old man stubbornly refusing to accept change.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Young people, especially women, should be taught to know their place and just get on with it!

Is how I read that person’s comments. Sounds like an old man stubbornly refusing to accept change.

You seem to misunderstand me, I was agreeing with Nymrohd. While I am all for young women proactively participating in their community, I am also wholly reactionary where WoW is concerned because most every depiction of social reform in Azeroth since ~2018 has been absolutely wretched, be it Calianized Forsaken, primitive clanless Mag'har, or — arguably the worst of them all — TWW-era goblins.

Granted, I can see at least one instance where I would be very happy to have a plucky female rebel take action and benefit her community: I'd be really happy if Geya'rah dropped an Iron Star on the Horde Council and brought the Horde into a new era of autocratic female empowerment.

If I'm tossing ideas around about how we can really bring representation and positive messaging into WoW, I also think it would be pretty cool if we had the Arathi Emperor tell us all about how he realized he was a man and how his quest to transition figured into his appreciation for the fine art of running an imperial theocracy. Turalyon could shed a little tear and realize that the Arathi Emperor's story of literally getting a pair corresponds to Turalyon's need to regrow his own pair and start a nice parallel empire in the Eastern Kingdoms.

[Joshuaj]

Plot twist:

K'aresh isn't next.

Instead, we take the plunge deep below, into the endless abyss.

Below the Undersea, we reach the Sleeping City of Ny'alotha.

The zone is partly underwater, but there is also land inside huge air pocket.

There, the mystery of the Black Blood will be resolved, and Xal'atath's pact with N'Zoth.

We'll witness the return of Queen Azshara, and the rise of the new Black Empire, taking us to MIDNIGHT.

1. No. Ny'alotha is gone.

And 2. The Black Empire involved the Old Gods. What's gonna occur in Midnight won't involve the Black Empire, but something else entirely. We'll likely see Dimensius' armada and whatnot, but that's it.

[Joshuaj]

So they say.

But don't you find it a little bit suspicious that the city called the "sunken city," at the bottom of the sea, has strangely been omitted from the game so far?

For all the talk about the fish knowing all the secrets and stuff, I find it peculiar that N'Zoth and Ny'alotha were dealt with in a fiery alternate dimension instead.

It's especially fishy (heh) considering he was imprisoned below the ocean and yet all we saw of him at the Circle of Stars was a swirly black inky cloud.

Why else would they even have come up with the idea of the Undersea, and the 11.1.7 cutscene reveal, if they had no plans.

The "sunken city" is a metaphor, as it was sunken with the Old God that essentially ruled and spawned it initially.

When N'Zoth broke free, that city was waking up as N'Zoth was attempting to bring his capital to the physical realm.

[huth]

Young people, especially women, should be taught to know their place and just get on with it!

Is how I read that person’s comments. Sounds like an old man stubbornly refusing to accept change.

On the one hand, there's Chesterton's Fence. On the other, there's the folly of clinging to tradition because it is tradition. Which is essentially the inverse of Chesterton's Fence.