Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Makorus]

Our players/the characters not at least being suspicious of the Titans by TLT would be, once again, a huge blunder on Blizzards part.

At this point of War Within/DF we should at least be kinda like "Hey, maybe our interests don't really align", otherwise it's another case of "The only thing that matters for storytelling is what happens in cinematics".

People constantly ask for a good morally grey character, and Iridikron is exactly that.

[Hitei]

Iridikron is destined to be our first raid tier in TLT. He'll probably snipe a Titan and we kill him for them. Afterwards the conspiracy gets revealed, maybe Aman'thul forces Nozdormu to become Murozond. Then we kill the Titans

I really doubt that we are going to get an entire tier into TLT before we are at odds with the Titan forces. They are probably going to be the primary enemy of Northrend 2.0 questing experience.

Metzen said that the events that happen in Midnight "spiral out of control" into TLT rather than "going as planned", and we have to assume that the entire reason Iridikron bothered with the Dark Heart and partenering with Xal'atath is that Xal, the Void and the Dark Heart are all integral parts of the trap he's setting for the Titans. So it's not like we're going to finish the last tier of Midnight, then everything's cool for a bit and we show up to Northrend and fight Primalists for a while and then suddenly at the end of tier 1 Titans drop in and shit hits the fan.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I still hope that Northrend is getting "Tears of the Kingdom"-fied with a big Upheaval, where it will be extremely vertical, Ulduar flying in the sky merged with Halls of Valor, bits of the continent just floating around Nagrand style, bringing out previously hidden stuff like Iridikrons lair and bigger part of Azjol-Nerub.

While I hope it's recognizable by the end of it, I can't oppose an especially apocalyptic and striking remake for a finale-type expansion like that. That said, I may favor things like collapsing landscapes to floating islands. Something drawing from Dark Souls III with parts of Northrend or unearthed titan cities converging could also be interesting.

[Nymrohd]

I pretty much expect TLT trailer to be the arrival of the Titans as they prepare to reoriginate Azeroth directly while we have hijacked most of their facilities.

[Makorus]

I really doubt that we are going to get an entire tier into TLT before we are at odds with the Titan forces. They are probably going to be the primary enemy of Northrend 2.0 questing experience.

Metzen said that the events that happen in Midnight "spiral out of control" into TLT rather than "going as planned", and we have to assume that the entire reason Iridikron bothered with the Dark Heart and partenering with Xal'atath is that Xal, the Void and the Dark Heart are all integral parts of the trap he's setting for the Titans. So it's not like we're going to finish the last tier of Midnight, then everything's cool for a bit and we show up to Northrend and fight Primalists for a while and then suddenly at the end of tier 1 Titans drop in and shit hits the fan.

Did he not explicitly state that the only reason he allied with the Void was to lure the Titans/get them killed? Every time someone brings up the Void he deflects and says that the Titans are the real enemy.

Vyranoth says it's stupid to trust the Void, he says he "trusts their hunger" and that the Titans infected this planet and need to be extinguished.

I feel like Iridikrons plan is:

1. Give Dark Heart to Xal so she can mess with the World Soul
2. Despite us trying out hardest, she succeeds at the end of Midnight
3. Titans realise that they really need to intervene
4. Iridikrons knew that Xal was no match for the Titans
5. Azeroth tells us that she doesn't want the Titans either
6. Iridikron has some gadget that weakens Titans because by all his actions I don't think he'd be stupid enough to just fight them

He really just needed a way to coax the Titans to Azeroth, and the Void was the best bet.

Really, the only inconsistency with his plan was Fyrakk, which, to his defense, he couldn't have known that he was even gonna thrive for that long, but him not doing anything about Fyrakk wanting to burn down Amirdrassil is odd, especially because he uses it as an argument that the Titans don't care about Azeroth.

[Nymrohd]

How powerful are the Titans currently anyway? They were mere wisps of their former selves, struggled to help us with Argus and then used everything they and Argus had to bind Sargeras. I am not saying they are weak but I doubt Aman'thul can just swipe a continent like he once could. I'd assume they are all at Aggramar's level when we fought him in Antorus.
Sure Iridikron will need some McGuffin to kill them but I am sure he had something in mind before he set everything in motion. E.g. maybe he can reconfigure the Forge of Souls to target the Pantheon instead of Azeroth.

[Makorus]

How powerful are the Titans currently anyway? They were mere wisps of their former selves, struggled to help us with Argus and then used everything they and Argus had to bind Sargeras. I am not saying they are weak but I doubt Aman'thul can just swipe a continent like he once could. I'd assume they are all at Aggramar's level when we fought him in Antorus.
Sure Iridikron will need some McGuffin to kill them but I am sure he had something in mind before he set everything in motion.

I mean, a part of their power is going to be permanently missing anyway seeing how part of their spirit got merged with the Keepers.

Funnily enough, the only one at full power would be Sargeras which will definitely become a plot point.

[Thomir]

How powerful are the Titans currently anyway? They were mere wisps of their former selves, struggled to help us with Argus and then used everything they and Argus had to bind Sargeras. I am not saying they are weak but I doubt Aman'thul can just swipe a continent like he once could. I'd assume they are all at Aggramar's level when we fought him in Antorus.
Sure Iridikron will need some McGuffin to kill them but I am sure he had something in mind before he set everything in motion. E.g. maybe he can reconfigure the Forge of Souls to target the Pantheon instead of Azeroth.

The combined might of the Pantheon must be equal to or greater than a single Titan in their prime since they were able to subdue Sargeras. Though the Seat of the Pantheon might also be augmenting their power. It's at least focusing it.

[Nymrohd]

The combined might of the Pantheon must be equal to or greater than a single Titan in their prime since they were able to subdue Sargeras. Though the Seat of the Pantheon might also be augmenting their power. It's at least focusing it.

They subdued Sargeras using Argus' power as much as their own. And I doubt the entire Pantheon will be against us. We are bound to get Eonar on our side and I'd expect at least one more Titan (Aggramar is the best fit) or maybe two.

[Thomir]

They subdued Sargeras using Argus' power as much as their own. And I doubt the entire Pantheon will be against us. We are bound to get Eonar on our side and I'd expect at least one more Titan (Aggramar is the best fit) or maybe two.

What at all makes you think they used Argus' power? I don't remember that ever being stated.

All of them except Aman'Thul and Norgannon should be on our side. And Norgannon can be the sacrificial goat if they want Iridikron to kill one of them, I guess. I've always thought he was in a weird place in the Pantheon.

[Makorus]

They subdued Sargeras using Argus' power as much as their own. And I doubt the entire Pantheon will be against us. We are bound to get Eonar on our side and I'd expect at least one more Titan (Aggramar is the best fit) or maybe two.

Eonar is definitely team us, and I think Sargeras will be too (He is the Last Titan). Amanthul will definitely be antagonistic, same with Norgannon. Golganneth and Khazgoroth are perfect "Who cares?" raid boss fodder. Agrammar is a wild card depending on how the expansion starts, seeing how is very much a "for honor" type.

I would be more interested if they are going to introduce Amitus into the canon WoW lore.

[Nymrohd]

What at all makes you think they used Argus' power?

That's how they worded it during the raid?

We will use the last glimmer of Argus's power to bind him here. The Seat of the Pantheon shall become Sargeras's prison... and ours as well.

All of them except Aman'Thul and Norgannon should be on our side. And Norgannon can be the sacrificial goat if they want Iridikron to kill one of them, I guess. I've always thought he was in a weird place in the Pantheon.

I don't see why they would all be on our side. We've only ever heard of Eonar oppose Aman'thul in any way. And if it is everyone against Aman'thul and Norgannon, that's not a particularly desperate fight.

[Thomir]

Eonar is definitely team us, and I think Sargeras will be too (He is the Last Titan). Amanthul will definitely be antagonistic, same with Norgannon. Golganneth and Khazgoroth are perfect "Who cares?" raid boss fodder. Agrammar is a wild card depending on how the expansion starts, seeing how is very much a "for honor" type.

I would be more interested if they are going to introduce Amitus into the canon WoW lore.

Don't disrespect Golganneth like that. He's been stated to be very fond of mortals and is one of the least orderly on the Pantheon, being associated with storms and the roaring oceans. Very "chaotic" elements.

[Nymrohd]

Eonar is definitely team us, and I think Sargeras will be too (He is the Last Titan). Amanthul will definitely be antagonistic, same with Norgannon. Golganneth and Khazgoroth are perfect "Who cares?" raid boss fodder. Agrammar is a wild card depending on how the expansion starts, seeing how is very much a "for honor" type.

I would be more interested if they are going to introduce Amitus into the canon WoW lore.

Imo Iridikron will get to kill one of Golganneth and Khaz'goroth. He definitely will kill a Titan, Khazgoroth makes the most sense since they share a theme and if he gets to EAT Khazgoroth he will then be a threat to the rest of the Pantheon. I think by the end, we will kill Aman'thul and Norgannon will escape to be the future "Order" faction villain. I expect Eonar and Agrammar to be on our side but further depowered. And I expect Sargeras will survive and escape. Imo what the Saga should do is wrap up loose ends while seeding many new threats. So by the end we will have a clear villain on the side of Order, we will have Sargeras back but no longer with the Eredar or Nathrezim backing him up, we will have Denathrius, Azshara, the Arathi empire. So plenty of options for future expansions.

[Thomir]

That's how they worded it during the raid?





I don't see why they would all be on our side. We've only ever heard of Eonar oppose Aman'thul in any way. And if it is everyone against Aman'thul and Norgannon, that's not a particularly desperate fight.

Why do you think Aman'thul would not be threatening enough? There's no one in the cosmos with greater command over time. There's a lot Blizzard could do with Aman'thul alone to make it a very desperate fight.

[Lady Atia]

Why do you think Aman'thul would not be threatening enough? There's no one in the cosmos with greater command over time. There's a lot Blizzard could do with Aman'thul alone to make it a very desperate fight.

There's also the point that they seemingly decided around Shadowlands that we will fight him, hence the optical re-design of the Jailer (who would otherwise have looked alot like him).

[Thomir]

Imo Iridikron will get to kill one of Golganneth and Khaz'goroth. He definitely will kill a Titan, Khazgoroth makes the most sense since they share a theme and if he gets to EAT Khazgoroth he will then be a threat to the rest of the Pantheon. I think by the end, we will kill Aman'thul and Norgannon will escape to be the future "Order" faction villain. I expect Eonar and Agrammar to be on our side but further depowered. And I expect Sargeras will survive and escape. Imo what the Saga should do is wrap up loose ends while seeding many new threats. So by the end we will have a clear villain on the side of Order, we will have Sargeras back but no longer with the Eredar or Nathrezim backing him up, we will have Denathrius, Azshara, the Arathi empire. So plenty of options for future expansions.

On the subject of Sargeras ... It's clear the Titans are the only thing keeping him imprisoned. They would've left sooner, otherwise. So, something must happen to Sargeras that lets them leave the Seat. My prediction is he gets totally Ordered. It could be quite disturbing see him as a mindless puppet of the Pantheon. And it'd give us a reason to want to prevent that from happening to Azeroth, if that's their plan.

- - - Updated - - -

What would Iridickrons contingency plan be against Sargeras anyway? Killing one of the Titans would probably break his containment. It's their combined strength keeping him there. So, he kills one of them, Sargeras escapes, and proceeds to immediately cleave Azeroth in two. That'd be the best ending to this saga tbh.

[Makorus]

On the subject of Sargeras ... It's clear the Titans are the only thing keeping him imprisoned. They would've left sooner, otherwise. So, something must happen to Sargeras that lets them leave the Seat. My prediction is he gets totally Ordered. It could be quite disturbing see him as a mindless puppet of the Pantheon. And it'd give us a reason to want to prevent that from happening to Azeroth, if that's their plan.

- - - Updated - - -

What would Iridickrons contingency plan be against Sargeras anyway? Killing one of the Titans would probably break his containment. It's their combined strength keeping him there. So, he kills one of them, Sargeras escapes, and proceeds to immediately cleave Azeroth in two. That'd be the best ending to this saga tbh.

idk, the Titans not doing anything because they are keeping Sargeras imprisoned would be insanely boring. I'd rather have a proper reason why they didn't help against Fyrakk, or the Jailer, or anything else from Legion onward.

[Nymrohd]

Why do you think Aman'thul would not be threatening enough? There's no one in the cosmos with greater command over time. There's a lot Blizzard could do with Aman'thul alone to make it a very desperate fight.

I am assuming that the members of the Pantheon are of similar strength. So if it is 2 vs 4 plus Azeroth's forces, it should be a fight for sure but not a desperate one. It's nothing similar to what happened in Legion.

And does Iridikron even know about Sargeras? He was imprisoned before the Pantheon got wiped out.

[Hitei]

And does Iridikron even know about Sargeras? He was imprisoned before the Pantheon got wiped out.

There's no reason for him not to. The incarnates had an entire army of Primalists who were regular mortals and know about the various events that have happened.