Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nibelheimy]

A lot to digest. I for once this expansion didn't find Chromie annoying, which is good. Was not expecting xal'atath to be shown either, but yeah we can say for sure now that Iridikron is working with the void.

Strangely enough, Neltharion had to submit to the old gods in order to imprison the incarnates (or at least just Razageth).. With a void portal.. So why couldn't Xal'atath just void portal them out again? I feel Xal'atath is actually devoid of most power right now and that device Iridikron has may just be used to power her up.

Maybe the children of the first flesh really are the old gods, and it's them who are referred as needing to remember their vows. Fighting amongst themselves for power instead of working together for the void lords maybe?

I know people want to see Vyranoth join up with us.. But I'd write it differently. I'd have her realise she's on the wrong side and join with us to take Fyrakk down, then in the end of raid cinematic I'd have Iridikron void portal in and zap her with the new Dsoul and fuel her with Galakronds hunger against her will. This would show he really has no care for the incarnates or dragon kind.

The next patch could then be focused on the red dragonflight, but primarily Alexstraza on having to put down a friend herself who is out of control, growing, and trying to resist, but failing, consuming as Galakrond did. Show her suffering and sadness at what she's doing, and Alexstrasa's at having to hunt her for it. It has a lot of potential.

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After re-watching the cinematics again, Iridikron wants the titans to come back to Azeroth. The best way to speculate on the next expansion is to think what he could to do make them want to return I think. That's our key.

Off the top of my head releasing the elemental lords is probably the only thing that comes to my mind as I've previously speculated. Anybody have any ideas on things he could do to force their return? Maybe resurrecting the old gods and releasing N'zoth from the blade? (he's in that blade I swear) I could see the elemental lords returning to Azeroth as a place for the new fish mount to be used too..

It needs to be something bigger than burning a world tree as he states to Chromie, something that will 'pry the world from their grasp'. They ordered it and imprisoned the elemental lords and old gods? Releasing them? Sending a new old god from the void down onto Azeroth, maybe Avaloren to save our own zones being destroyed again?

[Chickat]

I'd rather she be a bit more outwardly antagonistic than Bolvar, but I definitely agree she ought to remain a recurring villain instead of an expansion villain doomed to death. My preferred system would be to have her remain an actively-hostile secondary villain for the most part, but occasionally have objectives in line with our own. I think we need more unstable, constantly-shifting accords with different characters and factions like Warcraft III had; it was, in my mind, part of what made the story much more fluid and realistic than the MMO overall.

Like Frieza from Dragon ball super now.

[Chickat]

Ohhhhh so no Murozond

I guess that Chromie rewinded time in the dungeon? Well, if Nozdormu becomes now a different character, not eternally saddened by his future death, could be interesting.

Lets go Fyrakk!! I am really looking forward to see more of this Incarnate, even if I am aware that 10.2 would probably mean his death.

I'm pretty sure 10.2 is going to be in the dream and the raid will be the defence of the tree. Fire and ice themed.

Fryakk died and maybe Vry switches sides at the end?

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Technically, it could be a sort of "Visage" form for Queen Azshara as well. "Beyond the Umbral Veil" seems almost to describe what we're seeing here.

But I think in choosing that particular silhouette, it is pretty likely Blizzard made a conscious choice to tease Xal'atath.

It could be this:

- Iridikron is the "new Deathwing", being influenced by the Void. Hates the Titans and the cosmic force of Order which they represent, so wants to do all he can to bring that down and "save dragonkind" or whatever. He is the "primal power that seeks the end of Order", which can be "bent to serve our ends".

- Xal'atath is the Harbinger that swapped sides to serve Queen Azshara rather than the Old Gods.

- The Harbinger "gathers the children of the first flesh to reclaim what was lost". Apparently, they "must remember their vows and serve those to whom they owe fealty." The children of the first flesh could be creatures that spawned from or were somehow made by or made to serve the Old Gods. Yogg-Saron created mortal Humans and Dwarves (indirectly) by cursing the Titanforged with the Curse of Flesh. So presumably either the Old Gods were the first flesh since they came to Azeroth before that curse, or the first flesh refers to those affected Titanforged and the "children" are their descendants, i.e. Humans and Dwarves etc. So Xal'atath might be rallying people around her. But is she rallying Old Gods, Dragons, Primalists, mortals in general, or what?

- The secrets Neltharion buried will "strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin". Would these secrets perhaps involve knowledge about some sinister nature of the Titans, given to him by the Void? Is this what Alexstrasza is beginning to wrestle with in the cutscene featuring Vyranoth?

- So now what needs to happen is that "a hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed", and "a dark heart left broken awaits the taking"? Then the Harbinger will fulfil the "final prophecy" and "complete the awakening", after which Queen Azshara will return from Beyond the Umbral Veil to rule the sea, sky and earth.

Is the dark heart Azeroth's, corrupted by the Void? Is it Alexstrasza's?

What is the hunger, is it referring to Galakrond's power being taken by Iridikron? Does it simply refer to the primal nature of the dragons being restored to them?

In the cutscene, Iridikron holds up the artfiact and says the Harbinger will pry the world from the Titans' grasp. We see him step through a Void-portal to meet (presumably) the Harbinger and deliver the object. Is this object the "dark heart"? Some kind of anti-Heart of Azeroth?

What will happen next, will we see Fyrakk and Vyranoth invade the Emerald Dream while Iridikron and the Harbinger await the final moment to strike and awaken Azeroth as a Dark Titan or Void Lord? Or will we, the Children of the First Flesh awaken from our slumber?

What do they need inside the Dream? Could it be that Life (symbolised by the new World Tree, the Dream, and perhaps even Alexstrasza) is the last thing standing in their way?

Do they only need 10.2 to play out so that Alexstrasza gets to feel betrayed yet again, this time by her sister Ysera? (Beware the eyes of green.) Is that what finally pushes her over the edge, and what lets the Harbinger fulfill the prophecy?

Stay tuned.

I feel like the children of the first flesh are dragons. They used to be elementals but turned into fleshy dragons long before dwarves.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Both the Grimoire and Chronicle have visuals. Chronicle has explanations for the forces.

Chronicles has an explanation for the forces, it has none for the chart. Grimoire has the broker saying life/death is above the others as reflected on that chart, Chronicles does no such thing it just explains each item on the chart and never scales them or even touches on there relationships in some cases like the wild gods being the Titan/Old god esc rep for life when they were just made by a Titan keeper.

[Chickat]

Feels kinda clear that Fyrakk will be end boss of 10.2 attacking the new world tree. And now that we know Vyranoth had a close relationship with Alex that she will be the final boss of 10.3 since that is likely to have a red dragonflight focus.

10.0 -> Dragon isles intro (all flights)

10.1 -> Black and Blue focus

10.1.5 -> Bronze focus

10.2 -> Emerald dream & green flight focus (Kill Fyrakk)

10.3 -> Red focus, and since Alex is Queen of dragons all the other flights will likely get some more story here as well. Like seeing Ebonhorn adjust to his position as aspect, Blue flight actually helping now that they're re-unified, etc. Either Tyr or Vyranoth as last boss of the expac. And whether Tyr ends up an ally or enemy hes rezd and his knowledge of early Azeroth will lead us into 11.0 chasing Galakrond to the back side of Azeroth to a continent with a full civilization who successfully resisted the titans influence.

I could totally see the raid of 10.3 being an assault on vyranoth with the reds and alexrrasza and tyr. Alex betrays tyr so save her sister and the dragons abandon their titan masters.

The aspects still want to protect Azeroth but are no longer titan pawns.

[Nibelheimy]

While worth remembering, by saying that Iridikron possibly wants to release the elemental lords from their prisons and resurect old gods , I don't mean he wants to ally with them. As with sending Fyrakk into Zaralek, the shadowflame wasn't important, it was purely to distract us. It would be similar by destroying the other prisons, purely to force the titans to get involved.

If the elemental lords are returning in the near future, we're going to be figuring out coexisting on Azeroth with them. If it happens next expac, Thralls a good character for the Khadgar of the expansion to be ambassador to the elements.

All Iridikron wants is the titans to return to Azeroth where he can get to them. What I'm trying to speculate on is what action he could take that would incite them to return, undoing their imprisonment of those beings may be it.

Although to my recollection the titans only got involved with Azeroth physically in order to imprison the old gods, the elementals were also locked away at a similar time.

[Nymrohd]

It really would be so cool if it actually happens; Xal'atath finds a way to take over the World Soul and then the Pantheon itself arrives from the Seat to intervene. Why Iridikron thinks he can kill an actual Titan though . . . I mean he sure can take down Odyn or Tyr, but I doubt he can take down Aman'thul and Sargeras.

And on Titan Keeper order intervention being problematic; sure it is. We still have no reason to believe it is not better than VOID intervention.

And I don't think Iridikron is guided by ideology. Vyranoth maybe would want to restore the planet to a state with no Titan intervention. Nah Iridikron wants to use the planet as bait so he can kill the Titans because he hates them and he probably doesn't care about anything else.

[Nibelheimy]

And I don't think Iridikron is guided by ideology. Vyranoth maybe would want to restore the planet to a state with no Titan intervention. Nah Iridikron wants to use the planet as bait so he can kill the Titans because he hates them and he probably doesn't care about anything else.

I agree, he pretty much tells us this in the ending of the dungeon cinematic. 'and when the titans come to reclaim their prize, I will be waiting' their prize being the planet. Emphasis on reclaim.

Yeah he hates them, he seems to be really fuelled by spite and I really like that. He's spent thousands of years planning and hating the titans throughout and having a villain do things for pure hatred feels pretty refreshing for wow after the jailer. That's what Death should have been about.

He's our Gul'dan. Him being in cahoots with Xal'atath is for his own means. He gets the titans, they get what they want. No idea what he'll actually do to them, but when that's done the story can then lead on to the void and Xal'atath a bit more.

[Nymrohd]

I agree, he pretty much tells us this in the ending of the dungeon cinematic. 'and when the titans come to reclaim their prize, I will be waiting' their prize being the planet. Emphasis on reclaim.

Yeah he hates them, he seems to be really fuelled by spite and I really like that. He's spent thousands of years planning and hating the titans throughout and having a villain do things for pure hatred feels pretty refreshing for wow after the jailer. That's what Death should have been about.

He's our Gul'dan. Him being in cahoots with Xal'atath is for his own means. He gets the titans, they get what they want. No idea what he'll actually do to them, but when that's done the story can then lead on to the void and Xal'atath a bit more.

Maybe he thinks he can eat a Titan's soul?

[Nymrohd]

Blud thinks he can eat a child of the Progenitors lmaooo

Another piece of your headcannon?

[Xilurm]

Agreed on Chromie. I'm not that "AWWW" seeing Chromie. Sorry if that makes Chromie fans butthurt but.... its how I feel.

Chromie is acting like this sweet grandchild that has to take care of her senile grandpa all the time and steer him in the right direction so he doesn't fall of a cliff, when it comes to Nozdormu.

[Xilurm]

I don't think Fyrakk is the end boss of the expansion.I just don't see us ending it on him of all characters. I'm not saying he won't die(Cause he has to) for the very obvious defense of the new World Tree. Way things are going, someone suggested Alexstraza may not be corrupted but that one Old God minion might of twisted the idea of "Turning against Tyr"

I think the actuality is Alexstraza will oppose Tyr in some way. I hope we don't end another Titan Keeper cause thats kinda dumb and I dislike the Anti Titan theme thats going on here. Best case scenario for me is Tyr kinda sees what Alexstraza is talking about and relents/sees reason or we learn more of the Titans doing the whole "Water charged with Order Magic"

This. I hope we don't end up in a case where it's like "oh boy time to crack some Titan skulls" or something.

I like how Chromie defends them when Iridikron shits on them though, nice touch.

Either way, I don't think the Titans are going to end up being bad, just because they're all about Order. Sure it's their main thing but they are made of different elements. Like I seriously doubt Eonar who is all about Life, is going to be ok with destroying all life on Azeroth just because they ain't "orderly". Or slaves rather. The Dragons for example, are not Titan creations, and not only did they let them live, but even gave them their blessings.

[Darkarath]

It really would be so cool if it actually happens; Xal'atath finds a way to take over the World Soul and then the Pantheon itself arrives from the Seat to intervene. Why Iridikron thinks he can kill an actual Titan though . . . I mean he sure can take down Odyn or Tyr, but I doubt he can take down Aman'thul and Sargeras.

The Titans are a shadow of what they were. Their power is much diminished. Probably the only one that still is at full power is Sargeras. I am guessing that is taking the full concentration of all the Titans to keep Sargeras imprisoned, so I do not know how Blizzard would handle them coming back.

And I don't think Iridikron is guided by ideology. Vyranoth maybe would want to restore the planet to a state with no Titan intervention. Nah Iridikron wants to use the planet as bait so he can kill the Titans because he hates them and he probably doesn't care about anything else.

I agree with this take. Vyranoth might want to use the Emerald Dream as a way to restore the Azeroth in which she lived.

Vyranoth joining us would be a poor choice IMO. After Alexstrasza betrayal (making Orden influence Dragonkind), her imprisonment, Raszageth's death, and eventually Fyrakk's death (probably in 10.2), Vyranoth just cannot join us. Maybe after we defeated her and Alexstrasza takes pity on her, but even that would be a poor choice.

Remember that in the Primalist future everything is covered on ice. Vyranoth might yet surprise us in a negative way.

[Nymrohd]

Chromie is acting like this sweet grandchild that has to take care of her senile grandpa all the time and steer him in the right direction so he doesn't fall of a cliff, when it comes to Nozdormu.

Just imagine all these scenes but using Anachronos. We don't yet know his visage form so it could be used to give some race diversity to dragon visage forms (e.g. make him look Zandalari? or something weirder like a Jinyu would work for him). Then use the fact the he is Nozdormu's son and heir to give more gravity to all this dialogue and not have him sound like an overexcited child.

Use Chromie for the Time Rifts which are fantastic timelines and then use Soridormi for the Eon's Fringe quests so you can have those be morally grey and feel nuanced because there is an adult in the room.

Or even better (and less work as well) USE Soridormi. Nozdormu seems to only have one Consort and keeps Soridormi at his side and seems to trust her implicitly. Expand on that and make it clear they love each other and make Soridormi be the one who is desperate to save her man. Sure it was just shown with Sindragosa and Malygos but those were both dead. So a version of that with both of them alive.

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The Titans are a shadow of what they were. Their power is much diminished. Probably the only one that still is at full power is Sargeras. I am guessing that is taking the full concentration of all the Titans to keep Sargeras imprisoned, so I do not know how Blizzard would handle them coming back.

Would kind of be cool if Iridikron's hatred ends up setting Sargeras free.

The crazy thing for me is, he doesn't even know the Titans. His interaction is with the Keepers.

[Foolicious]

It really would be so cool if it actually happens; Xal'atath finds a way to take over the World Soul and then the Pantheon itself arrives from the Seat to intervene. Why Iridikron thinks he can kill an actual Titan though . . . I mean he sure can take down Odyn or Tyr, but I doubt he can take down Aman'thul and Sargeras.

Makes you think what ace Iridikron has up his sleeve if he is confident enough to lure the titan pantheon to azeroth.

[Nymrohd]

Makes you think what ace Iridikron has up his sleeve if he is confident enough to lure the titan pantheon to azeroth.

Ignorance? He knows of the Titans by observing the Keepers. He is probably confident he could take down any of the Keepers (I give him that, I think he could even take a couple of them at once, they are not that powerful)
Alternatively maybe he is not planning to kill them. Maybe he has the means to trap them.

[Chickat]

Worth remembering that in Cataclysm, Deathwing offered the Elemental Lords to join him, which Ragnaros and Al'akir accepted and the others refused.

Ragnaros then attacked Mount Hyjal and the World Tree Nordrassil.

Meanwhile, the Naga and the Twilight's Hammer cult attacked the two Elwmental Lords who refused Deathwing.

The Earthen Ring then worked to restore things and replace the fallen Elemental Lords with new leaders.

I feel like Dragonflight is to Cataclysm what The Force Awakens was to A New Hope. It's essentially retelling the same story (with some differences), but amped up to 11.

- N'Zoth is replaced by Queen Azshara and Xal'atath.

- The Elemental Lords are replaced by the Primal Incarnates.

- The Twilight's Hammer is replaced by the Primalists, shifting focus slightly from the Void to the elements. But they're effectively doing the same thing and working for the same Masters.

- Instead of Ragnaros attacking the World Tree on Mount Hyjal, we have Fyrakk attacking the World Tree inside the Emerald Dream.

It's pretty easy at this point to predict what will happen next. The Dream will be invaded. The question is just what happens at the conclusion of the patch. What is the final straw that makes Queen Azshara return and awaken whomever it is that is going to wake up (presumably a corrupted Azeroth).

What we do know is that 11.0 most likely features Void and Elemental stuff plus a world revamp, with Thrall working with us to fix things.

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Interesting take, could be. Although I wonder if we've actually seen the Harbinger gather them around her?

There was another theory floating around, mentioning a group of Titan-forged that had ventured into Azeroth's core aeons ago. I can't remember exactly what it said atm.

Yeah they could also be the native species of Avaloren and not seen until 11.0.

[ChronoSul]

I agree, he pretty much tells us this in the ending of the dungeon cinematic. 'and when the titans come to reclaim their prize, I will be waiting' their prize being the planet. Emphasis on reclaim.

Yeah he hates them, he seems to be really fuelled by spite and I really like that. He's spent thousands of years planning and hating the titans throughout and having a villain do things for pure hatred feels pretty refreshing for wow after the jailer. That's what Death should have been about.

He's our Gul'dan. Him being in cahoots with Xal'atath is for his own means. He gets the titans, they get what they want. No idea what he'll actually do to them, but when that's done the story can then lead on to the void and Xal'atath a bit more.

Reminds me of the sterotypical relationship between the reverse flash and barry which is a neat dynamitic for 2 characters

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Ignorance? He knows of the Titans by observing the Keepers. He is probably confident he could take down any of the Keepers (I give him that, I think he could even take a couple of them at once, they are not that powerful)
Alternatively maybe he is not planning to kill them. Maybe he has the means to trap them.

I could see it. Basically an Eye for an Eye point of view. Tho from our point of view kindof pointless since we know the titans are basically trapped already

[Santandame]

Can’t say I’m too excited about 10.2 seemingly focusing on Fyrakk attacking the Dream/World Tree.

We’ve seen the aesthetic of burning down forests and trees so many times. It’ll feel too similar to Hyjal. Burned forests are just a boring aesthetic.

I’d have much preferred Vyranoth attacking instead so we’d get a more frozen over, winter wonderland but more destructive biome of the Dream instead. That would feel more refreshing and much more aesthetically pleasing.

Well there goes my hope for a revamp expansion coming next as well as having Fyrakk being used as a continuous threat in line with Ragnaros fanatics for Blackrock Mountain and the Khaz Modan zones.

I’m still pretty certain that Vyranoth is switching sides and will represent the primal/proto dragons at the Seat of the Aspects.

Pretty sure next expansion is going to be Avaloren which is where Xal’atath will make her base of operations supported by the “heretics” we’ve read about. During DF testing stages I theorised several times in this thread that next expansion would lead into a Xal’atath & Azshara team-up but based in Ancient Kalimdor thanks to Murozond antics. Looks like I was half right there but instead it’ll be Xal’atath & Azshara on Avaloren. I really hope Azshara takes on more than just a villain role in the expansion though. There’s so much potential with her.

I think it’s also important to note that we’ve seen a flashback of Tyr falling in battle against Zakajz in western Tirisfal. This is also the spot where we found Xal’atath trapped in the Spriest blade. There may be something to be gleaned from that.

[Nymrohd]

@Santandame, the cinematic could absolutely be leading in to something that happens in 10.1.7 where we contain Fyrakk only for Vyranoth to be the one who ends up attacking the tree
Or it could be both of them leading to a Fire & Ice theme that imo works great and has only ever been used in Frostfire back in WoD.