Midnight 12.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Limayria]

Its full hero 6/8. Its almost hard cap with solo play, without m+ and raids.
While I bring final bosses for like 20% of hp I strugle with the rest. If 11.2 can bring me to around 700 to ease this madness - I see no reason to do it now.

you can get gilded crest from t11 delves or trade up runed crest once you get runed of the undermine and then fill out slots with 381 crafted gear

[Lahis]

- M+ Elite sets - if PvP can get a seasonal set, M+ should also get one

PvP Elite set is the equivalent of Mythic track PvE tierset.

So M+ and raiding already has "Elite" set.

[Lady Atia]

PvP Elite set is the equivalent of Mythic track PvE tierset.

So M+ and raiding already has "Elite" set.

No? Since everyone can farm the Mythic sets after the patch is over ....

I mean, if they do give us a way to farm old elite sets and gladiator mounts via "casual rated pvp" than yes, I can agree that they would be an equivalent. Until they do that, it's not even remotely the same, especially as you can get the mythic transmog by just doing HC raid and delves lol.

[Lahis]

No? Since everyone can farm the Mythic sets after the patch is over ....

That's how it has always been. PvE gear can be farmed easily in few expansions when you outlevel the content.

[Pyrophax]

you can get gilded crest from t11 delves or trade up runed crest once you get runed of the undermine and then fill out slots with 381 crafted gear

Yep, its how I done 6/8. Currently I have 666(heh), with belt and crafted weapon.
Still bosses (some of them actually) live for far longer then they should to be managable without lucky procs of Gift of the Titans.

[Lady Atia]

That's how it has always been. PvE gear can be farmed easily in few expansions when you outlevel the content.

Yeah, and I want that to be changed. Either give exclusive shit to pve and pvp, or remove the exclusivity from pvp.

Or better, have stuff to be exclusive for 2 expansions and than give people the option to farm them in some limited way so that you can't catch up if you don't keep playing.

[Nymrohd]

Its full hero 6/8. Its almost hard cap with solo play, without m+ and raids.
While I bring final bosses for like 20% of hp I strugle with the rest. If 11.2 can bring me to around 700 to ease this madness - I see no reason to do it now.

It shouldn't be hard to have multiple crafted 681 items using gilded crests from delves and from trading up runed (plus by now if you were doing T11 bountiful delves you probably long have Hero track items for everything plus sockets for Helm/Wrists so you can just buy sparks for more crafted). Then 8/8 Hero Track items for four tier pieces, trinkets and maybe some dinar items like the Gallywix ring. Ofc it's not at all an issue if you don't want to focus on that but it is not hard to acquire solo. That can get someone to 675+ at which point the damage checks in Horrific Visions are non-existent.
Btw one thing I'd suggest; in 8 mask runs Sanity is not an issue outside the boss fights themselves. So clear a couple of areas and then back track and pick up all the potion buffs stacking them up so they can last the entire run. They are a significant improvement.

[Wangming]

But landmarks are sort of accessory to the entire continent being consistent. If you docked a huge Titanforged warship with Ulduar and the increased energy through the systems made the entire continent thaw, you'd be left with a wildly different set of zones that feel like new zones but none of those major landmarks would be touched. Is that fine?

If the ice and snow were removed from Dragonblight and it became like a necrotic dragon skeleton area, a cross between Maldraxxus and Terokkar's Bone Wastes, with Galakrond's undead army starting to rise again--but Wyrmrest and the shrines and the Scarlet area, etc. are still there, how does that rate for you? Is that equivalent to destroying the zone since it's not at all the Wrath Dragonblight, or is it fine?

That would be okay for me at least. The memorable parts are the landmarks. As long as we get just one zone of actual freezing icy cold (because I expect that from a far northern zone) I"m fine with it. But don't nuke ICC.

What's the deal with people being adamant that the initial setting and theme of an expansion will stay throughout the entire thing? That's literally never been the case, and we even have Metzen explicitly telling us that Midnight is going to spiral off from the original theme to lead into TLT. There's no reason to believe the patch zones will be in Quel'thalas, and there's no reason to believe the raids will be Void-themed after the very first one.

Perhaps people just hate when an expansion is all over the place in terms of threats and settings. I know I do.

Midnight's revamp has to be one of the most intriguing moments in WoW's history. We all have our opinions, but how Blizzard would do it?

- The Cataclysm-type revamp: Just bringing the graphics and art to date would do wonders for any pre-Cata zone. Plus they could make the revamped zones a little bigger without doubling if not tripling their size, which is what I would expect if Blizzard wants them to meet current zone standards. Biggest gripe would be that Cata revamped ALL old zones. So if we get this kind of revamp but only for a few zones... It would feel like a scam.

- The BfA Arathi Highlands-type revamp: It would also feel like a scam. Not going to happen.

- The WoD Draenor-type revamp: I think that this is what most players expect. Revamped zones made from the scratch. Are we in that same situation, though? Draenor felt like something new but familiar. Zones were bigger but Outland was pretty big too. WoD zones are not like the ones that we are used to nowadays. For starters, we got 6 new zones with WoD release, while the new expansion WoW model gives us only 4.

My point is, the Draenor kind of revamp could be too much when we mix it with current WoW's zone standards, as the zones would have to be so much bigger that they might not have the same vibe and familiarity.

The obvious solution for this is mixing various zones in a new one. For example, Eversong Woods and The Ghostlands into Quel'thalas. It would fit perfectly and IMO is probably what they are going to do to all the northern EK.

- A new revamp-type? As much as I would love a northern EK revamp, it might be a problem for Blizzard.

I believe that most players expect Kalimdor and EK to be fully revamped sooner rather than later, and certainly Blizzard has been dropping hints about this possibility. But how much time would it take to revamp them as new expansion material?

In a best case scenario, if Midnight revamps half the EK, it's fair to think that with another 3 expansions (one for the rest of the EK and two for Kalimdor) it could be done.

But how the hell would that make sense or be good for the game? The continents would feel sooo disconnected between them, and it would take so many years to do !!

Oh, and good luck selling 3 more expansions of revamps after Midnight and TLT, because if you visit new continents between the revamps it would only increase the mess !!

So... Any ideas? Could Blizzard be cooking more than we dare to dream? Could Midnight bring a full revamp (in a new form that makes sense) to both Kalimdor and the EK?

Yeah, that's the problem with revamps like this. You do all of it, or it ends up being a disjointed mess. And by all, I do mean all of it. And that won't happen.
I think a WoD type revamp is the most possible though. Current Quel'Thalas is just too small. It's like....one Dragonflight zone. It should be three at least.
Just one small think I'd like to correct. A revamp would do wonders to a post-Cata zone as well. Cataclysm was 14 and a half years ago. To put it in context, wow existed for six years before Cata hit. Twice that time has already passed.
Same thing goes for race models as well. 10 years till WoD, now 11 years has passed. These things are old. And the problem is, these things are old by contrast. Not buy looking at other games, but inside the game itself. More recent zones, races and assets make the unupdated ones look like crap in comparison. It's the flowerpots have as much polygons as character models problem from FFXIV 1.0 again.

Not to spoil too much...but Dimensius won't be the one invading Azeroth

Yeah, we beat him now. No?

I'm still hard coping that Shadreen's master is Denathrius and we get a surprise Dreadlords patch with some San'layn. All the various Dreadlord spies coming back could make for a lot of magic variation.

That would be awesome. Denathrius was one of the few cool parts of Shadowlands. Also i love vampires. Also Nathrezim are kinda important recurring antagonists.
Did I mention I like vampires?
I want Denathirus to attack Gilneas and give us a vampires vs werewolves patch at least.

The problem with that argument is that it would feel really, really ass-pulled to go from current Dragonblight to a Dragonblight that has Legion damage, Cataclysm damage, Hour of Twilight damage, Scourge damage, all of these things that happened more than ten years ago at this point, because we as players don't actually see them happening. You go from an relatively OK Dragonblight to a Dragonblight that has endured like 5 global crises, the majority of which aren't even relevant anymore in the slightest.

That's the problem with these global events and then not actually reflecting them in game

Yeah and it is hard to feeel the tension and get involved, when nobody is affected by the conflict. Westfall tried it by showing homeless drifters affected by the Cataclysm and the constant war, then radicalized by militant bandits. It was probably the most toughtful BLizz was with the war aspect. But 1) It was dragged down by the forced CSI: Miami jokes and 2) that was 15 years ago. Nobody is affected by the wars, so we don't care, but the effects of the cataclysm aren't repaired after so long, which paints the leadership as inept at best and indifferent at worst. Would it be so bad if some outside force conquered this bunch?

Keeping Quel'thalas instanced would be a huge disappointment to me. Really hope they just throw it into the cata world map so we can seamlessly fly there and the old TBC version remains via a portal or npc in its instance.

Agreed. Having the Northern Chunk of the continent cut off like that is dumb.

We know Midnight ends with us pushing back the Shadow for good. It is the one battle every force for the Light will show up to.

While I do agree with this, I do hope the focus will be on the Elves. Because we are in Quel'Thalas and uniting the elves.
BfA era Blanduin explaining to Saurfang the meaning of War and the Horde and all that, was bad enough. I don't want Turalyion, Anduin and the Arathi to explain to the elves how to be an elf.
Others can help, for sure. But let the Elves lead and be in the limelight.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Yeah, that's the problem with revamps like this. You do all of it, or it ends up being a disjointed mess. And by all, I do mean all of it. And that won't happen. I think a WoD type revamp is the most possible though. Current Quel'Thalas is just too small. It's like....one Dragonflight zone. It should be three at least.Just one small think I'd like to correct. A revamp would do wonders to a post-Cata zone as well. Cataclysm was 14 and a half years ago. To put it in context, wow existed for six years before Cata hit. Twice that time has already passed.
Same thing goes for race models as well. 10 years till WoD, now 11 years has passed. These things are old. And the problem is, these things are old by contrast. Not buy looking at other games, but inside the game itself. More recent zones, races and assets make the unupdated ones look like crap in comparison. It's the flowerpots have as much polygons as character models problem from FFXIV 1.0 again.

I agree it's better to do it all at once, but likely this won't happen again after Cataclysm and Blizzard's position about it. That being said, even though you don't update all zones at once, there is a way to do it without having it feel too disjointed: you just need to separate the campaign storyline from local storylines so that the local storylines still feel relevant years later (whereas the campaign storyline would have to be done in order), and you have to make sure you wrap things up and leave the zone in some sort of evergreen form, at least in appearances. The main problem with Cataclysm? The destroyed things are still destroyed 15 years later. If we had fixed those or toned them down at the end of the questing experience, the world wouldn't look as bad as it does now. As for the more visual aspect, I think even though each expansion looks better and better, since WoD/Legion the style has been relatively coherent, I don't go back to the Broken Isles and think "uf, this place looks old", you know? So I think for example if we had Northern EK in this expansion and Northern Kalimdor in 2 expansions, visually they wouldn't be that far apart.

[Lahis]

Yeah, and I want that to be changed. Either give exclusive shit to pve and pvp, or remove the exclusivity from pvp.

Or better, have stuff to be exclusive for 2 expansions and than give people the option to farm them in some limited way so that you can't catch up if you don't keep playing.

We have mounts. Seasonal M+ mounts are unavailable after the season and raid mounts become decade long farms with their insignificant droprates.

[Lady Atia]

We have mounts. Seasonal M+ mounts are unavailable after the season and raid mounts become decade long farms with their insignificant droprates.

Yes, and so has pvp?

I really don't get your aversion for adding more rewards for M+ players, especially if they bring us to play more alts / different classes there just like with pvp. Could also help with tuning down meta chasing for lower key levels if you say, give the set for 2500 so now people want to play these keys on non-meta classes because the set is cool.

I for example get 2-5 elite sets each season and I would love to have that carrot on the stick for my M+ classes aswell (since I have four different classes on 3k+ rio now and there are literally 0 rewards for it besides the "triple thread" title I guess).

Oh also .... 1% drop chance is literally laughable high haha, ontop of the mythic mounts that will end up on a remix vendor down the line.

[Joshuaj]

wasnt that the thing in shadowlands where it was revealed the jailer wanted sargeras to go nuts

Well, his conspiracy required the Titan Pantheon to fall apart, he didn't care how it happened tho, so long as Denathrius and his agents got it done.

[Lahis]

Yes, and so has pvp?

I really don't get your aversion for adding more rewards for M+ players, especially if they bring us to play more alts / different classes there just like with pvp. Could also help with tuning down meta chasing for lower key levels if you say, give the set for 2500 so now people want to play these keys on non-meta classes because the set is cool.

I for example get 2-5 elite sets each season and I would love to have that carrot on the stick for my M+ classes aswell (since I have four different classes on 3k+ rio now and there are literally 0 rewards for it besides the "triple thread" title I guess).

Oh also .... 1% drop chance is literally laughable high haha, ontop of the mythic mounts that will end up on a remix vendor down the line.

So tier sets should be mismatched models depending on whether you pick it from Dungeon track or loot it from raid?

[Enrif]

can't believe people argue FOR artificial scarcity of cosmetics in an MMO. There is no reason to remove access to anything in the game. So what if other people get elite gladiator sets? Who cares about the pixels scarcity so much? You think people will recognize someone walking around in full gladiator gear? In the age of transmog it is just another design.

If i would be a designer on WoW i would lift any type of restrictions on old stuff. You want elite gear, buy it with marks of honor, want the tier set appearance, get the achievement for the difficulty to have killed all bosses and unlock it, no unnecessary grind. Mounts, heck make it a 10%, or 100% for all i care.

[Al Gorefiend]

can't believe people argue FOR artificial scarcity of cosmetics in an MMO. There is no reason to remove access to anything in the game. So what if other people get elite gladiator sets? Who cares about the pixels scarcity so much? You think people will recognize someone walking around in full gladiator gear? In the age of transmog it is just another design.

If i would be a designer on WoW i would lift any type of restrictions on old stuff. You want elite gear, buy it with marks of honor, want the tier set appearance, get the achievement for the difficulty to have killed all bosses and unlock it, no unnecessary grind. Mounts, heck make it a 10%, or 100% for all i care.

They should make herald of the titans acquisition the norm across the board. So long as you don't go above the intended level and gearscore if you complete a challenge you complete a challenge and get awarded the thing. Having done so during X time feels shit.

Or in my case with green fire, having done the shit during the current expansion when it was relevant and still not getting Black Harvest title, that sucks. Ticket after ticket

[Lady Atia]

So tier sets should be mismatched models depending on whether you pick it from Dungeon track or loot it from raid?

No?`I'm talking about unlocking a new class specific transmog set at lets say 2,5k or 3k or 3,5k rio just like it works with 1,8k pvp rating right now.

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOOT KEKW.

Are you even playing the game right now?

[Polybius]

Yes, and so has pvp?

I really don't get your aversion for adding more rewards for M+ players, especially if they bring us to play more alts / different classes there just like with pvp. Could also help with tuning down meta chasing for lower key levels if you say, give the set for 2500 so now people want to play these keys on non-meta classes because the set is cool.

I for example get 2-5 elite sets each season and I would love to have that carrot on the stick for my M+ classes aswell (since I have four different classes on 3k+ rio now and there are literally 0 rewards for it besides the "triple thread" title I guess).

Oh also .... 1% drop chance is literally laughable high haha, ontop of the mythic mounts that will end up on a remix vendor down the line.

Because that helped with PvP participation, right?

It would help more if they had a flat currency to grind old sets. It's what they had in mind for Elite PvP anyway before the loud minority spammed the forums.

[Wangming]

Okay, the discussion has slowed down.
Let's autism what we could get.

Class: We got 13 classes and 39 specs.
Out of these 39 six specs are tank, six again are healers, nine are melee dps and seven are ranged dps. Mostly ranged magic, but that is irrelevant in terms of encounter design.
As weird as this ounds, the most balance friendly would be a class with a tank spec, a healing spec, and a ranged dps spec. Mayhaps it is time for our first ranged tank? SWTOR has two of those.
Now let's look at armor type. Leather has 4, every other type has 3. Plate, mail, and cloth. We have plate and leather tanks, mail leather and cloth ranged dps and healer for all four armor types. A cloth tank might be trick to gear, a better choice would be a plate user. Currently there is zero specs of ranged dps wearing plate, and only one healing spec. Yes, this does sound like trooper/bounty hunter from SWTOR.
Weapon. While rogues and warriors can equip weapons like guns and bows, the class doesn't really benefit that much from it. We have only two specs built for combat with ranged weapons. Beast Master and marksmanship. So there it is.

I'm just saying, all of this so far would fit Dark Ranger, a class that is very elvish, but that was wasted on a hero talent. One single new ability that is buffed. Oh goody.

Main attribute. 8 specs use strentgh. across three classes. Thirteen use agility across six classes. Finally eighteen specs use intellect across 8 classes.
From these it seems like strength is needed most. Besides, that is the main stat for plate classes.
True, it seems uncirumventable for the healing spec to use intellect, but we can manage that.

Final verdict: plate class with a tank, a dps and a healing spell each. Uses bows, crossbows and guns, main stat is strength for the first two specs, and intellect for the healer.
I'm sure some people will immediately say tinker. But that is more the small race class. Given the focus of midnight, it would be better to have a class that elves can use as well.

While not as elvish as ranger, warden or night warrior, the dream would be a variant of how Godfrey ended up. We don't really have pistols yet. Imagine a class, or a spec that can even dual wield handguns or hand crossbows. Special bullets/arrows could be used to heal. Basically the Dialo 3/Immortal Demon Hunter, just more heavily armored.


New Spec:
- One more spec isn't all that hard to imagine. 40 would be a nice full number, and currently DH is the only class that does not have three specs. Speculation is already on, so I won't really mince words. We all know what we expect.


Race: 6 race per faction, 5 allied race per faction, 2 neutral core races and 1 neutral allied race to a total of 25.
We are missing 3 races.

On the Alliance side human became fat humans. Night Elves became void elves (technically the Elven allied races switched faction body, but whatever), Draenei became Lightforged, Dwarves became Dark Iron and Gnomes became Mecha.

We are missing the Worgen allied race. And you know...Worgen were originally elves. There is a very easy solution for this, to give us a worgen allied race that fits the idea of Midnight.

On the horde side Orc became Mag'har, Tauren became Highmountain, Trolls became Zandalari, Belves became Nighborne and Goblins became Vulpera. Not a subrace or variant per se, but a new kind of long eared midget.

What we are missing are the undead allied race. And quite frankly it is embarrasing we still don't have it. Undead Elves. The last obstacle to a proper Dark Ranger. I mean for the longest time the racial leader was an undead elf.
IF Sylvanas returns, she could even be the one to properly introduce the allied race. Be they Darkfallen, San'layn or however we are goin to name them.

And the last race? I mentioned 3. Well, to make things perfectly balanced we need a second neutral allied race. And frankly, that would be where the Etherals fit in. I don't really see their appeal and would rather see their spot be filled by Naga, but this has been requested, speculated, and we sort of have hints for it. Let them have this win.

So yeah. TL;DR

Plate weating bow class wth tank, ranged dps and healing specs
The rumored DH third spec
Night Elf Worgen, Undead Elves and Etherals for Alliance, Horde and Neutral allied race respectively.


I don't think we'll get all this, but I also don't think this would be too much.

[Xeladriel]

Plate weating bow class wth tank, ranged dps and healing specs
The rumored DH third spec



.

I can see, i wanna add 1 bit more of context

The HERO class everytime adds a new mechanic or anything that normally we didnt' have

- DK: We didn't have a melee dps with DoTs(Unholy) neither tank withouth shield

- Demon hunter: We didn't have a class with high mobility until DH, we didn't have a chaos magic user on melee class/spec

- Evoker: We didn't have a midrange class or spec neither support spec

So...we had a plate, leather and mail hero classes added (monk doesnt count because is not hero class).

What if...

Cloth wearing bow class with tank, ranged dps and healing spec?

We don't have a ranged cloth class or spec without be caster, and we don't have a cloth tank

[Lahis]

I can see, i wanna add 1 bit more of context

The HERO class everytime adds a new mechanic or anything that normally we didnt' have

- DK: We didn't have a melee dps with DoTs(Unholy)

Rogue, Druid, Enha Shaman.

neither tank withouth shield

Druid

- Demon hunter: We didn't have a class with high mobility until DH,

Monk